POF - did this need to be in my account BEFORE the date of ITA?

[BellaOrgan]

Hi,

I've been lurking here for some time but can't seem to find a direct answer to this question so have decided to try my luck at asking it myself.

My husband and I received ITA in the last draw (we're in the UK), and are going through the process of application now. Like everyone in Draw 6 (I think that was it?!) we have until the end of May to submit our application.

My issue is our POF. We've saved around half, and are receiving a gift from family by the time we submit our application, so we'll have enough funds. My worry however is whether we need to prove that we had those funds at the time of entering the Express Entry pool? I know it asks you how much you are planning on bringing, but does not having the required funds ($14,850 for us) at the time of entering the pool matter?

If CIC check the last four months of statements (which I believe they will) then they'll see the required funds were only just met before submitting the application.

Thoughts on this? Sorry if it's been answered elsewhere, I couldn't find it anywhere.

 

[visaowl]

Hi,

I've been lurking here for some time but can't seem to find a direct answer to this question so have decided to try my luck at asking it myself.

My husband and I received ITA in the last draw (we're in the UK), and are going through the process of application now. Like everyone in Draw 6 (I think that was it?!) we have until the end of May to submit our application.

My issue is our POF. We've saved around half, and are receiving a gift from family by the time we submit our application, so we'll have enough funds. My worry however is whether we need to prove that we had those funds at the time of entering the Express Entry pool? I know it asks you how much you are planning on bringing, but does not having the required funds ($14,850 for us) at the time of entering the pool matter?

If CIC check the last four months of statements (which I believe they will) then they'll see the required funds were only just met before submitting the application.

Thoughts on this? Sorry if it's been answered elsewhere, I couldn't find it anywhere.

Yes it matters what you declared while entering the pool, because you have to prove that those funds existed on the day you expressed interest in EE. [Edited this sentence]

They will definitely ask for 6 months of account balance. So yes, they need to see a consistency in funds and the burden is on you to prove that those funds are not a loan.

 

[Pippin]

Six months of statement balances are requested and I think the question asked in the FSW qualifications is not what you intend to bring, but what funds you have. If you go into the Federal Skilled Worker forum threads and look at all the discussions there you will get some good information. As EE is so new, I don't know how strict CIC will be about the timing of funds and proving that you have what you stated on a specific date. How different is it than saying you have 12 months full time work experience when you have only 11 months, but you know you will have 13 months by the time ITA documents have to be submitted? Please don't take anything I have written as a personal affront. It is definitely not meant that way. It is put forward to help people think about the issue. Honestly, the cost of living is high here and the amount of POF is at the low end of realistic for most cities in Canada. I wish you all the best getting your application ready.

 

[visaowl]

Six months of statement balances are requested and I think the question asked in the FSW qualifications is not what you intend to bring, but what funds you have. If you go into the Federal Skilled Worker forum threads and look at all the discussions there you will get some good information. As EE is so new, I don't know how strict CIC will be about the timing of funds and proving that you have what you stated on a specific date. How different is it than saying you have 12 months full time work experience when you have only 11 months, but you know you will have 13 months by the time ITA documents have to be submitted? Please don't take anything I have written as a personal affront. It is definitely not meant that way. It is put forward to help people think about the issue. Honestly, the cost of living is high here and the amount of POF is at the low end of realistic for most cities in Canada. I wish you all the best getting your application ready.

EE is just a gateway to FSWP or CEC. BellaORgan will enter FSWP stream. So the same rules rules still apply, but the gatefront has been streamlined and bit prepped up by EE, the backend remains the same.

 

[Pippin]

EE is just a gateway to FSWP or CEC. BellaORgan will enter FSWP stream. So the same rules rules still apply, but the gatefront has been streamlined and bit prepped up by EE, the backend remains the same.

Yes, but.....old FSW required upfront complete application on date you applied so you would definitely HAVE to have the funds on date you applied. No one in EE sees it the same way (although I believe it should be - either you have required funds/67 points/WES and IELTS evaluations, work experience,
etc when you submit profile to EE pool or you do not.). I think the reason it is not viewed as a drop dead requirement is the fact that full doc proof isn't required until ITA and so far no one has been able to find a difinitive ruling from CIC on the POF timing issue.

 

[visaowl]

Yes, but.....old FSW required upfront complete application on date you applied so you would definitely HAVE to have the funds on date you applied. No one in EE sees it the same way (although I believe it should be - either you have required funds/67 points/WES and IELTS evaluations, work experience,
etc when you submit profile to EE pool or you do not.). I think the reason it is not viewed as a drop dead requirement is the fact that full doc proof isn't required until ITA and so far no one has been able to find a difinitive ruling from CIC on the POF timing issue.

Diving deep into the maze of CIC EE documents; it is explicitly written that the facts should be true on the day you express interest in EE by submitting your application. And those facts will be verified after giving you ITA. I am a bit held up right now; otherwise would have linked it.

 

[Pippin]

It will be interesting to see if there are refusals at ITA stage over POF and immensely helpful if people will share ANY issues they come up against during their process.

 

[Pippin]

I found some historical posts in this topic regarding refusals.
http://www.roadtocanada.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=6422
https://get2canada.wordpress.com/advice-on-proof-of-funds/

And another that is quite long, but worth reading. It was a 2010 case and I don't know what the outcome was. Posted by ajrox (19) 15 Apr 2010#1
Hello all,

I just got a letter today from CIC, Buffalo of a rejection of my case.

Here are the details about my application:
Residing in Canada since Sept. 2002
Education: Bachelors - Mechanical Engineering, Ottawa
Canadian Work experience: 2.5 years (on a Post-Graduate work permit)
Occupation: Mechanical Engineer
NOC category: 2132

I applied in June 2008 and had been hoping that all went well till I got a rejected today.

I had submitted Medicals, Police certificates, and everything they had asked for.

The only thing that went against me was that I got laid off in October 2009. So, CIC requested a Proof of funds from me in March, 2010.
I had about $6000 CAD in my bank, but that was insufficient, so I asked my father (who is not in Canada) to send me the money. He transferred CAD $11,000 to my Bank account instantly. I attached a letter to CIC with my bank statements, and letter of support from my father and his letter of employment and bank statements.
From what I had read in this forum, this should have been sufficient.

But as it turned out, my file was rejected as the Immigration officer said that I did not demonstrate the validity of the funds and the Wire transfer, (which I received after they asked for a Proof of funds) is not a valid proof of funds. I talked with a lawyer and he told me that getting money from a relative does not count as a valid proof. The money should be your own. I guess that's where I messed up. But I do not understand how else I would be able to prove my funds, besides the case where I would actually have the funds.

Now, apparently, there's nothing I can do that just reapply since appealing against this decision is a long and expensive process....

Does anyone have any advise for me?
I am thinking of instantly applying under CEC.

I will greatly appreciate the help.

It has been a horrible day so far and I am just fed up of this whole process.

 

[visaowl]

^ This has always been the case with CIC with respect to proof of funds. That is why they ask for six months balances otherwise the systemic abuse will happen. It is clearly written in no uncertain words, "You cannot borrow this money from another person." It cannot get simpler than that. Proof of funds is a very serious matter for immigration, people should not take it lightly. Settlement funds are very important for CIC to show solvency.

Besides, I personally know of 20 work permit rejections and a PNP rejection because of some minor issues, in very recent days. Better not play with CIC with these matters.

 

[hossamo33]

Ok. So do I need to show the transactions on my bank account for the past six months? Or can I just show the ending balance of each month for the past six month? I don't want to disclose the details of my transactions! Isn't that my right?

 

[Pippin]

The letter from the bank will indicate monthly balances for the 6 months.

 

[BellaOrgan]

Yes it matters what you declared while entering the pool, because you have to prove that those funds existed on the day you expressed interest in EE. [Edited this sentence]

They will definitely ask for 6 months of account balance. So yes, they need to see a consistency in funds and the burden is on you to prove that those funds are not a loan.

Thanks for everyone's replies.
My husband and I have quite high earnings per month (although certainly not $14,000 every month, but over half of that) and so we can demonstrate that we're already earning quite a lot (in the UK). The "gift" from his parents before we submit the official application will be legitimate and will stay in or savings account until we move to Canada if accepted, so it is not a loan and we will be able to prove it's still there 2 years down the line (when it looks likely we can actually move if accepted).
I've heard that some decisions are at the discretion of your officer, and feel that these two points teamed together - as long as we prove the gift is actually ours to keep - shouldn't really cause us a problem?
When you enter the EE pool, you won't know when you get invited, if at all, so it doesn't seem to make sense to me to have to definitely have the funds there ready when applying for the EE pool.

The problem here I think is that this is an entirely new system (which people here seem to forget!) and no one actually knows what the acceptance rate is or have heard any stories relating to acceptance etc from this year.

 

[bairn7]

I had always thought that it was the funds available at the time of responding to the ITA. Therefore I had intended to apply for EE at a point when I knew I would have the available funds in 2 months time. However, I've just started to populate some of the EE fields and the precise question regarding POF in the EE application is:

"What funds (Canadian dollars) does [bairn7] have available to bring to Canada to support [bairn7] and his/her family?"

This is asking a present question...what funds DO YOU HAVE AVAILABLE NOW, not what funds do you intend to bring to Canada. I haven't completed my EE application but I presume that you have to declare that the information you have provided is truthful and correct to the best of your knowledge.

On that basis, I sadly have to agree with visaowl that you need to have the funds at the time of EE application. I really hope I'm wrong because that's going to push back my application, and I already have sufficient points to get an ITA! But I don't risk applying until I have the funds or I read about a successful PR from someone who didn't have the funds at EE but had it at the time of responding to ITA.

With regards to the gift. This has come up a few times and the general consensus seems to be to obtain some documentary evidence of the gift. For example, if it is an outright gift from a family member, obtain some kind of legal attestation that it is an unencumbered gift. A solicitor would do this for you, although there will be a charge. A gift is a gift and there's nothing CIC can do about it but you want to make things as easy for the assessor as possible and a legal attestation that the money is a gift and not a loan would go a long way I think.

HTH

 

[rojiv94]

Hi,

I've been lurking here for some time but can't seem to find a direct answer to this question so have decided to try my luck at asking it myself.

My husband and I received ITA in the last draw (we're in the UK), and are going through the process of application now. Like everyone in Draw 6 (I think that was it?!) we have until the end of May to submit our application.

My issue is our POF. We've saved around half, and are receiving a gift from family by the time we submit our application, so we'll have enough funds. My worry however is whether we need to prove that we had those funds at the time of entering the Express Entry pool? I know it asks you how much you are planning on bringing, but does not having the required funds ($14,850 for us) at the time of entering the pool matter?

If CIC check the last four months of statements (which I believe they will) then they'll see the required funds were only just met before submitting the application.

Thoughts on this? Sorry if it's been answered elsewhere, I couldn't find it anywhere.

POF is not required in your account while you entering EE pool.

 

[bairn7]

POF is not required in your account while you entering EE pool.

How do you know this? Do you have any links that you can direct us to?