Please share the experience who stayed 4 years outside canada and returned back without any issue.
- Thread starter Superboy
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Short answer: CBSA officials are better at their job than many give them credit. Good enough to make lying to them a very bad idea. Even if more than a few not-so-honest travelers get away with this or that.
And, to be clear, it is NOT what they "KNOW" but what they perceive, what impression they have, what suspicions are aroused.
And once a PR is engaged in a Residency Obligation examination, the burden of proof is on the PR. It is up to the PR to prove when he or she was in Canada. (Technically a PR can decline to answer immigration questions beyond those necessary to establish identity and status, but the scope of questioning for customs purposes can be very broad and if the traveler then declines to cooperate in questions about RO compliance no advanced degrees in rocket science necessary to map the trajectory from there, gravity taking over.)
The longer answer:
IRCC and CBSA keep a lot of what they do behind the curtain behind closed doors. The investigatory methods justification for confidentiality (as in NOT public information) has broadened considerably over the years. They do their best to keep the public from knowing how they assess information provided by clients.
Any attempt to answer that question, "how do CBSA/IRCC officials know when a PR has been outside Canada?" will fall way short of identifying all the means they have for assessing the veracity of information or the credibility of individuals.
What we do know is that their efforts to identify fraud have greatly expanded in just over the last decade, the technology supporting that effort has been enhanced greatly over this same period of time, including expanded record capturing and more efficient access to records. Thus, even though many probably still get away with a lie or three, the number being caught and the consequences, combined, make lying to PoE officers a rather bad gamble.
I disagree some with the suggestion that officials review flight ticket data, airline passport scans, or previous trip customs declarations, at least NOT in the routine or usual case. (Such records might, possibly, be accessed and considered in the course of a more formal investigation, but if that happens, by the time that happens, the PR who has lied has undoubtedly been found out and is the subject of proceedings headed toward the more severe range of consequences.)
In the usual case, upon a PR's arrival at a PoE it is not likely that border officials are looking at flight ticket data, airline passport scans, or previous trip customs declarations (obviously they do look at the traveler's current custom declaration when arriving on an airline, but not past declarations).
In the usual case, when a PR applies for a new PR card it is also NOT likely that IRCC will access and review any of these either.
In the usual case, however, there are many indicators amply illuminating it is NOT likely there is any reason to question the PR-traveler about Residency Obligation compliance.
In contrast, if officials perceive some reason to question a PR about Residency Obligation compliance, yes they can access and consider the client's CBSA travel history, and except for American citizens who are Canadian PRs they can indeed access entry into the U.S. from Canada records effectively constituting a record of exiting Canada to the U.S. (and at some stage this information will be available even for American citizens who are PRs).
How it goes in the course of processing a PR card application is a big topic all its own.
How it goes at a PoE begins with a PIL official mostly looking for any clue, any hint, that the traveler should be questioned or examined more extensively. OR, at the airport it appears that Canada has joined some other countries in implementing kiosks which have sophisticated screening technology, which in addition to facial scanning appears to detect movement patterns, even of the individual's toes, which supposedly reveal tell-tale indicators of deception. (No idea how many such kiosks Canada has actually put into operation . . . first read about these about a year ago as I recall.)
As for the questions, the PIL official makes a concerted effort to discern who needs to be asked more questions, and while the content of the traveler's answers are important, the official is evaluating a lot more than just the content. They are always juggling and changing the questions asked and even the most basic questions, like "where do you live?" are often asked in slightly different ways. Likewise questions about employment.
Any attempt to script one's responses to PoE questions tends to be foolish.
What works? Just the facts. The truth. Simple, honest answers work.
Again, it is NOT about what the officials "KNOW." It is a lot about to what extent the officials believe the traveler. If they doubt the traveler's credibility, they ask more questions. If the traveler's response to those additional questions satisfy the official, that works. But once the PIL officer discerns enough to refer the traveler to Secondary, the officer in Secondary will both look at and consider more of the traveler's history in conjunction with asking more probing questions. And once it is discerned the traveler has not been honest, again no advanced degrees in rocket science necessary to map the trajectory from there, gravity taking over . . . that is, it goes downhill fast.
Hi. I had my PR card valid fron nov 2012. I left Canada few month later because of personal issues. Following that I came back in june 2017. You need to be honest withe officer. I had a job offer and was ready to settle for good. and I entered the country with no issue. following that I am still waiting to submit my PR card. I will let you know when I do.
danyboy
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- May 17, 2013
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i have same scenario, i stayed outside canada for 4 years and when i came back, no one asked me anything in the airport. i talked to a lawyer and he said im lucky.
Just wondering whether the POE officer is a Judge ? I mean few replies above saying that the were honest and the officer let them in WHY?
I mean only a judge can decide that the person coming in is going to stay for good so give him/her a chance. How can an officer decide not to report a person who admits that he/she is in violation of the residency obligation, on the other hand if a person is lying but there isn't any evidence to prove that so the officer decide to interrogate them.
I fail to understand why you need to check the residency obligation at POE for a valid PR Card holder ? just let them in, their residency obligation can be checked when they apply for PR Card Renewal or Citizenship.
I mean only a judge can decide that the person coming in is going to stay for good so give him/her a chance. How can an officer decide not to report a person who admits that he/she is in violation of the residency obligation, on the other hand if a person is lying but there isn't any evidence to prove that so the officer decide to interrogate them.
I fail to understand why you need to check the residency obligation at POE for a valid PR Card holder ? just let them in, their residency obligation can be checked when they apply for PR Card Renewal or Citizenship.
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"I mean only a judge can decide that the person coming in is going to stay for good so give him/her a chance. How can an officer decide not to report a person who admits that he/she is in violation of the residency obligation . . . "
Not sure why you think only a "judge" can make such decisions. The only "judges" making decisions about PR Residency Obligation compliance are "justices" of the Federal Court, and that is very unusual. Very few PR RO cases reach the Federal Court, and only those cases in which leave for judicial review has been properly applied for and granted.
In contrast . . . . there are various officials who make decisions related to examinations or determinations as to compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. Among these, those involved in the PoE examination process, and subsequent proceedings IF there is a 44(1) Report for Inadmissibility due to a breach of the RO, there are:
-- PIL (Primary Inspection Line) official (typically a CBSA officer) at the PoE
-- CBSA immigration officer engaged in Secondary examinations at the PoE
-- another CBSA immigration officer with Minister's Delegate status who interviews PRs issued a 44(1) Report at a PoE and reviews the report, first to determine if there was a breach, and if there was, to determine if there are nonetheless reasons why the PR should be allowed to keep status anyway (typically referred to as "H&C" reasons)
-- IAD (Immigration Appeal Division) panel member who presides over and decides any appeal of a 44(1) Report based on RO breach
-- CBSA immigration officer engaged in Secondary examinations at the PoE
-- another CBSA immigration officer with Minister's Delegate status who interviews PRs issued a 44(1) Report at a PoE and reviews the report, first to determine if there was a breach, and if there was, to determine if there are nonetheless reasons why the PR should be allowed to keep status anyway (typically referred to as "H&C" reasons)
-- IAD (Immigration Appeal Division) panel member who presides over and decides any appeal of a 44(1) Report based on RO breach
All these are qualified officials whose mandate is to enforce Canada's border security, customs, and immigration laws. Not judges.
While the burden of proof is on the PR at every stage, for there to be a negative decision against the PR requires multiple officers to independently reach that negative decision.
How and why each of these various officials decide this or that, and in what circumstances, is itself a big topic. Make no mistake, however, at each step, for each of these decision-makers, their decision making is largely FACT-BASED and CRITERIA-DRIVEN. Yes, there is extensive discretion, but the discretion employed largely if not nearly always tends to benefit PRs. So yes, more than a few PRs who have breached the PR Residency Obligation are the beneficiaries of leniency if not outright generosity.
What is remarkable is not so much the extent to which scores of PRs push the envelope, recognizing that for many immigrants, and wanna-be immigrants, circumstances in life limit their options, but what is surprising is the extent to which many PRs have unrealistic expectations and are surprised, some even angered, when the rules are applied and they face loss of PR status.
Bottom-line: Canada gives PRs a lot of leeway . . . indeed, the rules themselves, including especially the 2/5 rule, are structured to give immigrants a lot of flexibility in making the move to settle PERMANENTLY in Canada. Those who nonetheless fail to meet the rather lenient rules are often still given a chance to keep status. But once a PR is in breach of the RO, yes, there is a risk they will, in effect, GET CAUGHT and lose PR status.
I suppose the fact that some PRs might be allowed, in effect, to get away with breaching the RO, seems unfair to those who are not allowed to get away with failing to comply. No. The fact that some, so to say, get-away-with-it, does NOT mean it is unfair to those who do not.
Ha Ha ... Thanks for the advice.
The concerned person may not even travel back after i briefed her about the possibilities. She has not much time to decide . any ways thank you all for sharing your views and opinions.
Thank you dear for sharing information/opinion in detail. Thank you for your time.
Regards
Hello all,
I am currently outside Canada and plan to move to Canada next year. I will be outside Canada for 3.5 years by then. I went outside Canada to complete school and after that I got married. My spouse has applied for her Canada PR based in FSW program and is expected to receive her PR in next 6 months. I cannot return to Canada before the 3 year outside limit as I dont want to return without my spouse. My wife is pregnant and I dont want to leave and return to Canada. So I have decided to wait until she receives her PR. Assuming everything goes well, we plan on adding the newborn to her application and all this will take some more processing time. I will surpass my outside 3 year limit by then. I want to know If I will be allowed back in the Canada after spending 3.5 to 4 years outside (PR card will still be valid)? I plan on entering with my wife and newborn, they will do their landing. Please advise what to do in this situation.
We cannot travel to Canada now (before my 3 years outside time) due to - a) My wife is not PR yet, b)She is pregnant and wont be having health insurance in Canada, we have health insurance where we are residing right now,
Please advise. Thanks.
I am currently outside Canada and plan to move to Canada next year. I will be outside Canada for 3.5 years by then. I went outside Canada to complete school and after that I got married. My spouse has applied for her Canada PR based in FSW program and is expected to receive her PR in next 6 months. I cannot return to Canada before the 3 year outside limit as I dont want to return without my spouse. My wife is pregnant and I dont want to leave and return to Canada. So I have decided to wait until she receives her PR. Assuming everything goes well, we plan on adding the newborn to her application and all this will take some more processing time. I will surpass my outside 3 year limit by then. I want to know If I will be allowed back in the Canada after spending 3.5 to 4 years outside (PR card will still be valid)? I plan on entering with my wife and newborn, they will do their landing. Please advise what to do in this situation.
We cannot travel to Canada now (before my 3 years outside time) due to - a) My wife is not PR yet, b)She is pregnant and wont be having health insurance in Canada, we have health insurance where we are residing right now,
Please advise. Thanks.
Will they separate us and make me leave Canada? Leaving my wife and newborn alone in Canada? I thought Canada is not US.
What if I renounce my PR and my wife adds me and out kid in her PR application after receiving PPR? Will that reset the outside spent time?
What if I renounce my PR and my wife adds me and out kid in her PR application after receiving PPR? Will that reset the outside spent time?
I do have about 30k Canadian Federal student loans. How would I be able to pay Canada back if they remove me from the country and send me to my home country? Will all these be considered in the appeal?
You should be paying them now and you’re not in Canada. Being in Canada and repaying loans are not related. Many are working abroad still repaying their loans.
PR residency requirements are extremely lenient and are only 2 out of 5 years. You knew this in advance and made choices knowing you would be out of Canada over the 3 years. Technically you could be reported and then lose your PR and have to be sponsored again. That would mean multiple months without being able to work. Your case is also bound to be looked at when your wife applies for PR and then adds your child because you must be listed on her application.