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Please i need help

scylla

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Hi Dear : please regarding your statement which is below

The validity of your PR card doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. What matters is that you've continued to meet the rolling residency obligation. So as long as you've lived in Canada for at least 2 years out of the previous 5 years from today

please i need to understand this issue ? i am landed in may 2015 and submitted my Citizenship Application in Feb2019 after i complete 3 years stay in Canada , now you advise me that i must keep 2 years in Canada always for the last 5years is that correct? however my PR was expired in augest 2020 and i renewal up to oct 2025 . please advise ?
Yes, you must continue to live in Canada for 2 out of every 5 ROLLING years to meet the PR residency obligation while you wait for your citizenship application to be processed.

The expiry date on your PR card is irrelevant. It doesn't matter at all.

So from Feb 2019, it was mandatory that you still meet the PR residency requirement and continue to live in Canada for 2 out of every 5 rolling years.
 
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Essamrh

Member
Mar 25, 2014
18
3
Yes, you must continue to live in Canada for 2 out of every 5 ROLLING years to meet the PR residency obligation while you wait for your citizenship application to be processed.

The expiry date on your PR card is irrelevant. It doesn't matter at all.

So from Feb 2019, it was mandatory that you still meet the PR residency requirement and continue to live in Canada for 2 out of every 5 rolling years.
thanks for your reply , currently and up to date 28May, 2022 i have 860days in Canada which more than 730 days , but until now they review my physical presence , also yesterday i heard from the IRCC call center that my file in transit going back to Halifax , i don't know if its good news or bad ?
because my file was moved from Halifax to Montreal in 2019 for more review , but now after the questionnaire and i re sent all the documents required , my file still in process , and now the agent informed me that my file going back to halifax , do you think for extra review or for hearing ?
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,872
22,121
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
thanks for your reply , currently and up to date 28May, 2022 i have 860days in Canada which more than 730 days , but until now they review my physical presence , also yesterday i heard from the IRCC call center that my file in transit going back to Halifax , i don't know if its good news or bad ?
because my file was moved from Halifax to Montreal in 2019 for more review , but now after the questionnaire and i re sent all the documents required , my file still in process , and now the agent informed me that my file going back to halifax , do you think for extra review or for hearing ?
Sorry - I don't know.
 

harirajmohan

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PP Reached Ottawa:27-May-2016, Received:10-Jun-2016
LANDED..........
PR: 09-Jul-2016, PR Card: 17-Aug-2016
thanks for your reply , currently and up to date 28May, 2022 i have 860days in Canada which more than 730 days , but until now they review my physical presence , also yesterday i heard from the IRCC call center that my file in transit going back to Halifax , i don't know if its good news or bad ?
because my file was moved from Halifax to Montreal in 2019 for more review , but now after the questionnaire and i re sent all the documents required , my file still in process , and now the agent informed me that my file going back to halifax , do you think for extra review or for hearing ?
File transfer only delays further. if you are outside canada then you need to return to maintain residency till this file is approved.
No one knows who they operate - they operate like a secret service agency without following common procedure across all location since every officer does his/her own way to processing and judging the applicant and marks the file for additional review(or simply they mark the file as complex if they take more time to finish processing of the file).
We can only guess. We cant know unless you get atip notes.
 

Essamrh

Member
Mar 25, 2014
18
3
Some upfront notes:
-- comments below are also based the other relevant posts,​
-- I suspect language could pose some challenges in understanding what I say below; up to you whether you want to find someone to help you read and understand these comments (and those of others -- you seem to misunderstand some of what @scylla has posted)​
-- there are several unclear aspects of your situation​
-- YOU MAY NEED assistance from a LAWYER​

An upfront clarification:

NOPE
. If IRCC and a Citizenship Judge determine the proof falls short of establishing your presence in Canada for at least 1095 days, there is NO available leeway. The 1095 days is an absolute minimum requirement. If a CJ concludes the proof falls short, even by just one day, the application must be denied.

A Critical Factor -- Ongoing Residency Obligation Compliance:

@scylla's comments and questions are in part reference to a key factor in how things are likely to go. It is critical that as of today, and all days going forward, that you meet your PR Residency Obligation. That means that as of today, May 5, 2022, that you need to have been IN Canada at least 730 days between May 5, 2017 and today. Ongoing RO compliance is absolutely required while a citizenship application is pending. Date your current PR card was issued, and the date it expires, are NOT relevant.

If you are currently IN Canada, and staying in Canada, this is not likely to be or become an issue.

BUT if you are outside Canada, or otherwise spending a lot of time outside Canada since applying, and continuing to go abroad for significantly long time periods compared to how long you stay in Canada, be certain to stay in compliance with the RO.


Observations About the Status of Your Case I; Stage of Process:

It is difficult to discern what particular procedural stage you are at currently, and very difficult to discern why the officials handling your application have questions about your physical presence, and perhaps at this stage are not satisfied with the evidence so far submitted.

It is possible that the citizenship application is in serious jeopardy. If, for example, the "hearing" referenced is about a hearing before a Citizenship Judge, that would mean a Citizenship Officer has already determined you failed to submit sufficient proof of actual presence and is referring the case to a CJ to hold a hearing to make a conclusive decision about whether you have met your burden of proving you were physically IN Canada at least 1095 during the five year eligibility period established by the date of your application. The Citizenship Officer's referral to the CJ is made using a form in which the officer will outline the reasons why IRCC has concluded you failed to meet your burden of proof regarding physical presence.

It is not clear your case is actually at that stage. If it is at that stage, on its way to a hearing with a CJ, you probably need a lawyer soon . . . unless you are in a position to re-apply based on now having a stronger case. Or you OK with being a PR without citizenship.

Observations About the Status of Your Case II; Proof of Actual Physical Presence:

@scylla mostly covered this:
"In terms of the interview, you must have other evidence you can bring of the time you spent in Canada like property ownership or rental papers, tax returns, bank accounts, credit card activity, utilities / cell phone bills, employment records etc. I would dig up additional evidence . . . "​

This appears, however, to be more or less what you already submitted in response to the "questionnaire" you got and responded to in late 2021 (if I understand your posts correctly). And, it appears, IRCC has reviewed that evidence and nonetheless concluded you did not meet the burden of proving your actual physical presence. Again, it is not clear this is the stage your application is at, but if it is, and thus if the next step for you is a hearing with a CJ, and the outcome of THIS application is important, time to SEE a LAWYER.

A lawyer can look at your specific case and the evidence so far submitted, and consider what additional evidence, potentially, you might have to help your case. And do this specific to you, your facts, your evidence.

In what has been discussed so far, a lot of the "evidence" is passive evidence. Ranging from proof of property ownership and taxes to proof of payments for utilities, and school records for children. That can help, but objective proof of personal activity in Canada on dates certain is far more important. For example, family doctor visits showing YOU were visiting the doctor on a particular date; that clearly demonstrates you were actually present in Canada that day. Records showing children's doctor's visits, or children's school attendance, not so much . . . especially in your situation, since the history shows your family was in Canada when you were not.

A big, big evidentiary factor is employment. Applicants who can document employment for a readily identified Canadian employer, clearly referencing periods of time working at a particular location in Canada, have a big advantage in terms of proving actual presence.

You do not mention what proof of employment in Canada you have submitted. I do not want to guess, but if the reason for your absences over the years is rooted in continuing employment outside Canada, and you have had minimal employment in Canada, this could pose severe burden-of-proof issues. In particular, if your employment or work is predominantly located outside Canada, given the likelihood you will be facing a CJ hearing, before a CJ who has read IRCC's reasons explaining why you have failed to meet the burden of proving your actual physical presence, if getting citizenship based on this application is important to you, YOU NEED a LAWYER.


Hi Dear: i got to know from the IRCC agency , that my file has been transfer from Montreal office on 2 May , 2022 to IRCC Saint John in newfoundland , and until today the file in transit ? is that mean a further delay on my file ?
i got a proposal from the lawyer and i am reviewing it now .
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
Hi Dear: i got to know from the IRCC agency , that my file has been transfer from Montreal office on 2 May , 2022 to IRCC Saint John in newfoundland , and until today the file in transit ? is that mean a further delay on my file ?
i got a proposal from the lawyer and i am reviewing it now .
I will generally defer to a lawyer. And for sure defer to a lawyer who has had a chance to look at the details of the case.

Beyond that . . .

The outline of procedural transfers illuminates very little. If you meet the requirements, and continue to meet requirements, the odds are good you will eventually be granted citizenship. So, just like others here, I do NOT know the current status of your application.

As repeatedly discussed above, one of the ongoing requirements that you must continue to meet is having valid PR status. This means being in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. It is an ongoing obligation. To be in compliance as of today, for example, you need at least 730 days in Canada between June 8, 2017 and today, June 8, 2022. As @scylla has said, the date your current PR card expires is NOT relevant.

For another example: if IRCC schedules you for another interview or a hearing, say they schedule an interview or hearing for August 17, 2022 . . . you will need to have been in Canada at least 730 days between August 17, 2017 and then, August 17, 2022.

IF this is NO problem for you, the odds are good all will proceed to the next step.

The next step could be the oath (if it is determined you met all the requirements). Or it could be another interview or a hearing, if IRCC still has concerns about your physical presence.
 

Essamrh

Member
Mar 25, 2014
18
3
I will generally defer to a lawyer. And for sure defer to a lawyer who has had a chance to look at the details of the case.

Beyond that . . .

The outline of procedural transfers illuminates very little. If you meet the requirements, and continue to meet requirements, the odds are good you will eventually be granted citizenship. So, just like others here, I do NOT know the current status of your application.

As repeatedly discussed above, one of the ongoing requirements that you must continue to meet is having valid PR status. This means being in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. It is an ongoing obligation. To be in compliance as of today, for example, you need at least 730 days in Canada between June 8, 2017 and today, June 8, 2022. As @scylla has said, the date your current PR card expires is NOT relevant.

For another example: if IRCC schedules you for another interview or a hearing, say they schedule an interview or hearing for August 17, 2022 . . . you will need to have been in Canada at least 730 days between August 17, 2017 and then, August 17, 2022.

IF this is NO problem for you, the odds are good all will proceed to the next step.

The next step could be the oath (if it is determined you met all the requirements). Or it could be another interview or a hearing, if IRCC still has concerns about your physical presence.
i am outside Canada and as of today i am still have 730 days but it will be less than 730 days on 17 November , 2022 .
do you think the IRCC know that i am still outside and they need to delay my process until i loss the RO then they refused my Citizenship application .
 

Dreamlad

Champion Member
Jan 11, 2016
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471
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i am outside Canada and as of today i am still have 730 days but it will be less than 730 days on 17 November , 2022 .
do you think the IRCC know that i am still outside and they need to delay my process until i loss the RO then they refused my Citizenship application .
I'm also outside but I have more days accumulated.
When I requested to take test outside, they asked me for proof so they know I'm outside.
You have to get back before Nov 17th if you don't get oath before that.
You need to continue to be a PR before oath.
 

CANADA-1

Hero Member
Jan 17, 2017
309
68
Please i need a help
i landed Canada in may 2015 with my family , may family get the citizenship in may 2019 , but because i traveled 9 trips during the eligibility pried i submit my citizenship application late in Feb. 2019 after i stay in Canada 1120 days , in august 2019 i requested for interview without test because my age was 57 , during the interview the officer was very aggressive with me and she Plame me because i traveled , she request the copy of all passport pages and boarding pass of all my trips , i summited all the requested documents and sent it lat august 2019 . since this date i haven't received any things from IRCC , i request the help from MP in 2020 and 2021 and the answer is file in process and teh file moved to montreal to another review from specialist and IRRC late because of covid19 .

on 22, November 2021 i sent email to Montreal judge and complaint about the time however i provide all the documents to proof my physical presence such as Governmental movement certificates from my original country and the countries i residents also i provide the boarding pass of all my trips , the IRCC sent my and email on 23Novmber 2021 for physical Questionnaire i summited with all necessary documents , but now i follow-up with IRCC gent via call center , the agent inform me that my physical presence waiting for hearing ?
please do you know what dose it mean waiting for hearing and its good sign or bad and what can i do during this hearing ?
thanks
good sign is your responsibility to prove PR LEGIBILITY 730 days and citizenship application days nothing wrong good luck
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
@Essamrh . . . I cannot offer more than what the lawyer has.

Thank you for sharing the outline of the process as described by the lawyer; this really is much appreciated. That's the kind of detail many are looking for in considering whether Mandamus is an option in their case.

I cannot say it fits into what I have seen in every detail, but it is an excellent outline of the process. The timeline references seem rather optimistic to me, but maybe things really do move at that pace in the Federal Court and we just do not see reports of it. So again, it is information others are often asking about and helps the forum better understand and explain the process.

Note: I and others emphasize meeting the RO because a failure to do so can result in not only your citizenship application being denied but potentially result in the loss of PR status itself. That said, the process is not automatic. The real test will be what happens when you arrive at a Port-of-Entry coming back to Canada. That's when your RO compliance could be questioned and if you are in breach, an Inadmissibility Report prepared, which would then be grounds to suspend further processing of the citizenship application. If that Report is upheld by a second reviewing officer, that would result in the issuance of a Removal Order, which would make you NOT eligible for citizenship.

So, it is important to avoid staying abroad so long it gets to that stage where you would be at the mercy of the border officials screening you when you return to Canada. It is nearly impossible to predict how much scrutiny the border officials will engage in when you arrive, but the longer you have been absent the more likely it is they will be closely screening you when you return.

Some observations about the second part of the lawyer's outline, which describes the possible outcomes following the formal demand that IRCC take action or there will be an application for a Writ of Mandamus:

The part that jumps out, referring to one of the next possible actions IRCC might take, is this:

IRCC refers your file to a citizenship judge for a hearing – this is the most likely outcome considering what you’ve been told by the MP’s office (i.e., that your file is on queue for a hearing).

That is unfortunate news. We do not know the timeline for Citizenship Judge hearings other than to say so far as we have seen, that adds many months if not a year or more to the prospective processing timeline. If this is where things go to next, the burden of proof is totally on you, and it means it is very likely that IRCC has prepared a File Preparation Template outlining details stating why they do not believe you met the physical presence requirement.

Which brings this back around to . . .
i am outside Canada and as of today i am still have 730 days but it will be less than 730 days on 17 November , 2022 .
do you think the IRCC know that i am still outside and they need to delay my process until i loss the RO then they refused my Citizenship application .
In general we have no reason to believe that IRCC makes a deliberate decision to delay processing an application based on knowing the applicant is outside Canada. However, there continues to be some indication that being outside Canada can be a factor elevating concerns, raising questions, and this can lead to non-routine processing that does cause delays. And it is possible that IRCC personnel are not inclined to help an out-of-Canada applicant get through the process faster, to get things done in time to avoid RO compliance issues.

If your case is headed to a Citizenship Judge hearing, it could take a lot longer still.

If the cost of the lawyer is a concern, you might want to consider saving the cost of the lawyer making a Mandamus demand to use that funding toward paying the lawyer to represent you in a hearing before a Citizenship Judge.
 

Essamrh

Member
Mar 25, 2014
18
3
Some upfront notes:
-- comments below are also based the other relevant posts,​
-- I suspect language could pose some challenges in understanding what I say below; up to you whether you want to find someone to help you read and understand these comments (and those of others -- you seem to misunderstand some of what @scylla has posted)​
-- there are several unclear aspects of your situation​
-- YOU MAY NEED assistance from a LAWYER​

An upfront clarification:

NOPE
. If IRCC and a Citizenship Judge determine the proof falls short of establishing your presence in Canada for at least 1095 days, there is NO available leeway. The 1095 days is an absolute minimum requirement. If a CJ concludes the proof falls short, even by just one day, the application must be denied.

A Critical Factor -- Ongoing Residency Obligation Compliance:

@scylla's comments and questions are in part reference to a key factor in how things are likely to go. It is critical that as of today, and all days going forward, that you meet your PR Residency Obligation. That means that as of today, May 5, 2022, that you need to have been IN Canada at least 730 days between May 5, 2017 and today. Ongoing RO compliance is absolutely required while a citizenship application is pending. Date your current PR card was issued, and the date it expires, are NOT relevant.

If you are currently IN Canada, and staying in Canada, this is not likely to be or become an issue.

BUT if you are outside Canada, or otherwise spending a lot of time outside Canada since applying, and continuing to go abroad for significantly long time periods compared to how long you stay in Canada, be certain to stay in compliance with the RO.


Observations About the Status of Your Case I; Stage of Process:

It is difficult to discern what particular procedural stage you are at currently, and very difficult to discern why the officials handling your application have questions about your physical presence, and perhaps at this stage are not satisfied with the evidence so far submitted.

It is possible that the citizenship application is in serious jeopardy. If, for example, the "hearing" referenced is about a hearing before a Citizenship Judge, that would mean a Citizenship Officer has already determined you failed to submit sufficient proof of actual presence and is referring the case to a CJ to hold a hearing to make a conclusive decision about whether you have met your burden of proving you were physically IN Canada at least 1095 during the five year eligibility period established by the date of your application. The Citizenship Officer's referral to the CJ is made using a form in which the officer will outline the reasons why IRCC has concluded you failed to meet your burden of proof regarding physical presence.

It is not clear your case is actually at that stage. If it is at that stage, on its way to a hearing with a CJ, you probably need a lawyer soon . . . unless you are in a position to re-apply based on now having a stronger case. Or you OK with being a PR without citizenship.

Observations About the Status of Your Case II; Proof of Actual Physical Presence:

@scylla mostly covered this:
"In terms of the interview, you must have other evidence you can bring of the time you spent in Canada like property ownership or rental papers, tax returns, bank accounts, credit card activity, utilities / cell phone bills, employment records etc. I would dig up additional evidence . . . "​

This appears, however, to be more or less what you already submitted in response to the "questionnaire" you got and responded to in late 2021 (if I understand your posts correctly). And, it appears, IRCC has reviewed that evidence and nonetheless concluded you did not meet the burden of proving your actual physical presence. Again, it is not clear this is the stage your application is at, but if it is, and thus if the next step for you is a hearing with a CJ, and the outcome of THIS application is important, time to SEE a LAWYER.

A lawyer can look at your specific case and the evidence so far submitted, and consider what additional evidence, potentially, you might have to help your case. And do this specific to you, your facts, your evidence.

In what has been discussed so far, a lot of the "evidence" is passive evidence. Ranging from proof of property ownership and taxes to proof of payments for utilities, and school records for children. That can help, but objective proof of personal activity in Canada on dates certain is far more important. For example, family doctor visits showing YOU were visiting the doctor on a particular date; that clearly demonstrates you were actually present in Canada that day. Records showing children's doctor's visits, or children's school attendance, not so much . . . especially in your situation, since the history shows your family was in Canada when you were not.

A big, big evidentiary factor is employment. Applicants who can document employment for a readily identified Canadian employer, clearly referencing periods of time working at a particular location in Canada, have a big advantage in terms of proving actual presence.

You do not mention what proof of employment in Canada you have submitted. I do not want to guess, but if the reason for your absences over the years is rooted in continuing employment outside Canada, and you have had minimal employment in Canada, this could pose severe burden-of-proof issues. In particular, if your employment or work is predominantly located outside Canada, given the likelihood you will be facing a CJ hearing, before a CJ who has read IRCC's reasons explaining why you have failed to meet the burden of proving your actual physical presence, if getting citizenship based on this application is important to you, YOU NEED a LAWYER.

Hi Dear : i heard my file sent to Judge on 3 July 2022 for hearing , is that good sign ?
 

Dreamlad

Champion Member
Jan 11, 2016
1,266
471
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2171
AOR Received.
08-04-2017
Med's Done....
23-06-2017
Hi Dear : i heard my file sent to Judge on 3 July 2022 for hearing , is that good sign ?
Yeah. It is. Are you still outside? If yes, you need to go back before Nov 17th!
 

Essamrh

Member
Mar 25, 2014
18
3
I will generally defer to a lawyer. And for sure defer to a lawyer who has had a chance to look at the details of the case.

Beyond that . . .

The outline of procedural transfers illuminates very little. If you meet the requirements, and continue to meet requirements, the odds are good you will eventually be granted citizenship. So, just like others here, I do NOT know the current status of your application.

As repeatedly discussed above, one of the ongoing requirements that you must continue to meet is having valid PR status. This means being in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. It is an ongoing obligation. To be in compliance as of today, for example, you need at least 730 days in Canada between June 8, 2017 and today, June 8, 2022. As @scylla has said, the date your current PR card expires is NOT relevant.

For another example: if IRCC schedules you for another interview or a hearing, say they schedule an interview or hearing for August 17, 2022 . . . you will need to have been in Canada at least 730 days between August 17, 2017 and then, August 17, 2022.

IF this is NO problem for you, the odds are good all will proceed to the next step.

The next step could be the oath (if it is determined you met all the requirements). Or it could be another interview or a hearing, if IRCC still has concerns about your physical presence.
Hi :
i am still travel and coming back to Canada and also still maintain my RO , but i facing a questions every time in the second Border officer about why i am stay outside Canada and few of officers asking me directly ( do you know about your RO ) please keep your ayes open
also i heard from IRCC agent that my file has been sent to ST. John Newfoundland Judge in 2 July which the second day after arrived Canada , Do you think Border Canada update the IRCC about my enter and exit Canada
 

Dreamlad

Champion Member
Jan 11, 2016
1,266
471
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2171
AOR Received.
08-04-2017
Med's Done....
23-06-2017
Hi :
i am still travel and coming back to Canada and also still maintain my RO , but i facing a questions every time in the second Border officer about why i am stay outside Canada and few of officers asking me directly ( do you know about your RO ) please keep your ayes open
also i heard from IRCC agent that my file has been sent to ST. John Newfoundland Judge in 2 July which the second day after arrived Canada , Do you think Border Canada update the IRCC about my enter and exit Canada
IRCC will inquire about that with CBSA when it's necessary.
If you're still outside, you probably need to apply for PRTD.