Please Help!!!

[wait_so_long]

we never thought or planned to sponsor her parents, and they never applied for any immigration. During my wife's 2013 interview she had dna test result of her parents proving her parents are her parents, and she mention. she wanted them to visit her inthe future. Which lead to the officer believe that she has planned to sponsor her. parents. At that time we were both. young. early 20s and was too naive, never thought how complicated immigration was and applied without consultation. I dont even want her parents and her dead weight brother to be anyehere around me. They are nothing but cancer in her life and they are holding her back. They said they nevre wanted to come to canada, but i know they want to, that why they went with my wife to get the dna test, little do they know not only that will not work but they destroyed our genuine marriage and put me in this f@#king miserable situation. I'd sponsor a criminal with containtous disease before I sponsor her leach family. I had a few dozen fights with my wife because of this but fighting wont solve anything. Now I just want my new child to be in canada with his/her mother.

I am surprised at the focus on her parents. I've never heard of DNA test required for the applicant's parents before. Child, definitely, but not parents. Why was this required? Did they suspect that your wife's hukou is not genuine?

I am not sure that her parents are leeches. It might just be part of the culture, where the elderly, and ancestors, are respected. Some take it a little too far. For example, my wife's parents are fairly well-off. But every time she visits them, she feels obligated to give then an offering of several thousand RMB. Lately, they have been pressuring her for a car. Not just any car, but a status car, which we can't even afford for ourselves.

What is the nature of these "few dozen fights" with your wife? Even though you have no intention of sponsoring her family over, is it her desire that her family ultimately join her in Canada?

Canada allows 10,000 sets of parents/grandparents over every year, based on a lottery system. And many move via SuperVisas. Family reunification is a part of the immigration priorities. So, I find it odd that this would be a reason, let alone the primary reason, for refusal. Are her parents political dissidents? Suspected corrupt officials? There's got to be something more to this story.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Hii..thank you for replying...is there any chance for rejection..what do u think??also i got some changes in my GC key..before it was " provided additional documents have been uploaded" nbut now it says " additional documents are being reviewed"..I Don't know whay they changed it? Also could you share ur timeline as well??

You have hijacked someone else's thread, which has nothing to do with what you are asking. Create your own thread.

 

[Aayatakshidutta]

You have hijacked someone else's thread, which has nothing to do with what you are asking. Create your own thread.

This is an open forum called " please help" whoever needs any kind of help can post their concerns without following the rules...anyways we are jus not here to take over other's things, we have nothing to do with it..We are just here to discuss our issues and come out with a solution...
Thanks!!!

 

[canuck_in_uk]

This is an open forum called " please help" whoever needs any kind of help can post their concerns without following the rules...anyways we are jus not here to take over other's things, we have nothing to do with it..We are just here to discuss our issues and come out with a solution...
Thanks!!!

It's common forum etiquette to create your own thread instead of hijacking someone else's, especially when your question is not even related to OP's topic.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

we never thought or planned to sponsor her parents, and they never applied for any immigration. During my wife's 2013 interview she had dna test result of her parents proving her parents are her parents, and she mention. she wanted them to visit her inthe future. Which lead to the officer believe that she has planned to sponsor her. parents. At that time we were both. young. early 20s and was too naive, never thought how complicated immigration was and applied without consultation. I dont even want her parents and her dead weight brother to be anyehere around me. They are nothing but cancer in her life and they are holding her back. They said they nevre wanted to come to canada, but i know they want to, that why they went with my wife to get the dna test, little do they know not only that will not work but they destroyed our genuine marriage and put me in this f@#king miserable situation. I'd sponsor a criminal with containtous disease before I sponsor her leach family. I had a few dozen fights with my wife because of this but fighting wont solve anything. Now I just want my new child to be in canada with his/her mother.

Why did she do DNA tests with her parents??

As already said, refusal wouldn't be because of the possibility of sponsoring her family. Have you requested GCMS notes?

 

[lijunyu]

I am surprised at the focus on her parents. I've never heard of DNA test required for the applicant's parents before. Child, definitely, but not parents. Why was this required? Did they suspect that your wife's hukou is not genuine?

I am not sure that her parents are leeches. It might just be part of the culture, where the elderly, and ancestors, are respected. Some take it a little too far. For example, my wife's parents are fairly well-off. But every time she visits them, she feels obligated to give then an offering of several thousand RMB. Lately, they have been pressuring her for a car. Not just any car, but a status car, which we can't even afford for ourselves.

What is the nature of these "few dozen fights" with your wife? Even though you have no intention of sponsoring her family over, is it her desire that her family ultimately join her in Canada?

Canada allows 10,000 sets of parents/grandparents over every year, based on a lottery system. And many move via SuperVisas. Family reunification is a part of the immigration priorities. So, I find it odd that this would be a reason, let alone the primary reason, for refusal. Are her parents political dissidents? Suspected corrupt officials? There's got to be something more to this story.

In the 90s China had a very strict one child policy, My inlaws used their neighbours to register birth certificate/hukou for my wife so they won't be penalized. Few month before I submitted my application, she move her hukou back to her birth parents because they thought she might be able to sponsor them in the future. I demanded to not to because it would only complicate the immigration process. She did it anyway after I warn her if the application goes south it would be on her. The nature of most our fights mostly is because she was like you said never want to upset her parents. I understand that, be she did it with the gamble of our future.
The immigration people basically used this as a prejudgement and assumption that they planned to sponsor her parents,there for the marriage is not genuine. There was other minor issues such as miscommunication between the interpreter for my wife and herself. Not matching exactly what I've said. It feels like they would try to find any detail to discredit you, and not considering most evidence proves our marriage is genuine. The word genuine is too subjective and everyone has their own meaning of the word. It's like arguing with a wall . I've shown plane tickets, visas, wiretransfers, pictures with different timelines, fat to skinny, long hair to short hair. I don't what GCMS notes are, but I did receive all the reasons why I was rejection if that is what you meant

 

[canuck_in_uk]

In the 90s China had a very strict one child policy, My inlaws used their neighbours to register birth certificate/hukou for my wife so they won't be penalized. Few month before I submitted my application, she move her hukou back to her birth parents because they thought she might be able to sponsor them in the future. I demanded to not to because it would only complicate the immigration process. She did it anyway after I warn her if the application goes south it would be on her. The nature of most our fights mostly is because she was like you said never want to upset her parents. I understand that, be she did it with the gamble of our future.
The immigration people basically used this as a prejudgement and assumption that they planned to sponsor her parents,there for the marriage is not genuine. There was other minor issues such as miscommunication between the interpreter for my wife and herself. Not matching exactly what I've said. It feels like they would try to find any detail to discredit you, and not considering most evidence proves our marriage is genuine. The word genuine is too subjective and everyone has their own meaning of the word. It's like arguing with a wall . I've shown plane tickets, visas, wiretransfers, pictures with different timelines, fat to skinny, long hair to short hair. I don't what GCMS notes are, but I did receive all the reasons why I was rejection if that is what you meant

GCMS is the Global Case Management System, IRCC's computer system. It is an in-depth report that shows everything about your application and how it was processed, notes from the officers etc. You have to actually request the notes under the Privacy Act or Access to Information Act. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/atip/index.asp

 

[canadianwoman]

The visa officer was probably suspicious because of the DNA report. A DNA report was completely unnecessary, and so naturally made the VO wonder about the situation. If she tried to sponsor her parents in the future, and CIC had questions about whether she was actually their biological child, they would request a DNA test then. Doing one without being asked is useless. CIC would not accept the results anyway.

That said, if you reapply, you now have new proof that your relationship is genuine: you have been living together and have a child together. This should help your case. At the next interview, your wife should not mention the DNA report. If the visa officer asks about it, she can say that her parents insisted on it, she did not want to disobey them, and she did not realize the report was unnecessary.

 

[wait_so_long]

I have a better understanding now of why the focus on her parents, and why you would think that would have thrown a big wrench into the works. All the shenanigans right before your application would draw a lot of attention, and rightly so. And it does bring into question the intent of the relationship. And why having a child together could be interpreted as a Child of Convenience, and not guarantee you of anything.

Section 4(1) is two-pronged. First is the genuineness of the relationship. But the second part is whether the relationship "was entered into primarily for the purpose of acquiring any status or privilege under the Act". You would be refused if you fail on either point. By living together with your wife in China, it shows that you are willing to make sacrifices to remain together, even if it's not in Canada. But the part about wanting to bring your family to Canada for purposes of education, health care, etc., while true, may work against you.

Is there anything in your early correspondence that would show your wife's reluctance to consider relocating outside of China? That she slowly warmed to the idea because she want to be together with you? The genesis and development of your relationship plays a big part in establishing intent.

If you did the DNA test on your own volition, and submitted that with your application, then I would agree with canadianwoman. You would have drawn un-necessary attention to that detail. But you can't undo what has already been done. This will stay on your file forever.

Having gone through the appeal process, you would have a better idea of what the Minister's are, and which part of your relationship they are focusing on. Hopefully you are working on things that will support your position when it comes time to challenge that conclusion.

 

[lijunyu]

I have a better understanding now of why the focus on her parents, and why you would think that would have thrown a big wrench into the works. All the shenanigans right before your application would draw a lot of attention, and rightly so. And it does bring into question the intent of the relationship. And why having a child together could be interpreted as a Child of Convenience, and not guarantee you of anything.

Section 4(1) is two-pronged. First is the genuineness of the relationship. But the second part is whether the relationship "was entered into primarily for the purpose of acquiring any status or privilege under the Act". You would be refused if you fail on either point. By living together with your wife in China, it shows that you are willing to make sacrifices to remain together, even if it's not in Canada. But the part about wanting to bring your family to Canada for purposes of education, health care, etc., while true, may work against you.

Is there anything in your early correspondence that would show your wife's reluctance to consider relocating outside of China? That she slowly warmed to the idea because she want to be together with you? The genesis and development of your relationship plays a big part in establishing intent.

If you did the DNA test on your own volition, and submitted that with your application, then I would agree with canadianwoman. You would have drawn un-necessary attention to that detail. But you can't undo what has already been done. This will stay on your file forever.

Having gone through the appeal process, you would have a better idea of what the Minister's are, and which part of your relationship they are focusing on. Hopefully you are working on things that will support your position when it comes time to challenge that conclusion.

Thank you so much for the feedback. My wife did not have any correspondence that would've indicate her wanting to relocate outside of china, however in the first rejection letter, VO asked if my wife has any relatives in the U.S or canada, My wife replied her aunt, who was sponsored by her husband in the U.S. The VO asked why didn't they move to the U.S together instead going one at a time , my wife replied she doesn't know. VO stated the family has a history of sponsoring one family member at a time, therefor the intent is not to stay together as a couple but to gain status in the U.S. The funny thing is my wife doesn't even know her aunt well, my wife could've just answered no, and yet we are getting burned by being completely honest and the actions of the others.

 

[Miraclejj]

Thank you so much for the feedback. My wife did not have any correspondence that would've indicate her wanting to relocate outside of china, however in the first rejection letter, VO asked if my wife has any relatives in the U.S or canada, My wife replied her aunt, who was sponsored by her husband in the U.S. The VO asked why didn't they move to the U.S together instead going one at a time , my wife replied she doesn't know. VO stated the family has a history of sponsoring one family member at a time, therefor the intent is not to stay together as a couple but to gain status in the U.S. The funny thing is my wife doesn't even know her aunt well, my wife could've just answered no, and yet we are getting burned by being completely honest and the actions of the others.

Well, I think the best way for you to start your re-applying is to hire a good lawyer for it. Don't give me wrong, I am not trying to solicit here. Anyone from China would know that in China, Hukou is not just a form of ID, it represents your Identity, your whole life history. (They are changing it now, but Hukou is still important). While you can change it (through special channels) like what your wife did, but it means that your wife's previous histories and identity shown on her previous Hukou and her previous National ID, and anything related to her previous Hukou stored in government's data base, are completely wiped out. Basically, your wife is a completely new person with no prior history, birth record and whatever stored in government's data base. So, when you filled her application, all things listed on it, officially, it's not hers (Although it is). And CIC knows the importance of the Hukou, so that's why this is one of the country specific requirements for Mainland China's applicants to provide. And that is the real reason that you lost all your fights. CIC doesn't even believe a thing of her that listed on your application, got it? And I believe that when you got married, she used her prior Hukou to registered your marriage, right? And you know what? Officially, you are not her husband now. Because the official marriage data base won't recognize you as a couple, because this illegal Hukou change.

 

[lijunyu]

Well, I think the best way for you to start your re-applying is to hire a good lawyer for it. Don't give me wrong, I am not trying to solicit here. Anyone from China would know that in China, Hukou is not just a form of ID, it represents your Identity, your whole life history. (They are changing it now, but Hukou is still important). While you can change it (through special channels) like what your wife did, but it means that your wife's previous histories and identity shown on her previous Hukou and her previous National ID, and anything related to her previous Hukou stored in government's data base, are completely wiped out. Basically, your wife is a completely new person with no prior history, birth record and whatever stored in government's data base. So, when you filled her application, all things listed on it, officially, it's not hers (Although it is). And CIC knows the importance of the Hukou, so that's why this is one of the country specific requirements for Mainland China's applicants to provide. And that is the real reason that you lost all your fights. CIC doesn't even believe a thing of her that listed on your application, got it? And I believe that when you got married, she used her prior Hukou to registered your marriage, right? And you know what? Officially, you are not her husband now. Because the official marriage data base won't recognize you as a couple, because this illegal Hukou change.

actually it was a official hukou change, they had to explain why they changed and why changing back.

Everything else you said could be exactly correct. I've never thought of it that way, thanks for the advice.

Now I should just stay in china and sponsor from here, and hire a lawyer in canada? do you recommend any lawfirm that worked on similar cases or just experienced in my type of situation?

 

[wait_so_long]

When it came time for both families to rectify their respective hukou, were there any penalties assessed?

Were you married in China, and was this before or after the Hukou were corrected?

My wife and I were married in Hong Kong, and our son was also born in Hong Kong. Although Hong Kong is part of the China, it is recognized as a Special Administrative Region. As such, neither were registered in her hukou. We had proper marriage certificate and birth certificate which we had submitted along with our application, and CIC did not have any issues with the apparent discrepancies. Probably because they have come across this many times before.

Did you have a lawyer working with you throughout the appeal and judicial review? Was the lawyer well versed in the intricacies of the Chinese legal system?

I am not sure I understand why the VO thought that your wife could have gone to the US together with her aunt. Was her "aunt" the neighbour that her birth was registered under? Was your wife a minor at the time, and still on their hukou? Did your wife previously try to immigrate to the US, and was refused? You also mentioned the first rejection letter, was there more than one?

 

[Miraclejj]

actually it was a official hukou change, they had to explain why they changed and why changing back.

Everything else you said could be exactly correct. I've never thought of it that way, thanks for the advice.

Now I should just stay in china and sponsor from here, and hire a lawyer in canada? do you recommend any lawfirm that worked on similar cases or just experienced in my type of situation?

Let me put in this way (I am not criticizing you), there is no official way to change all of it. Yes, you may change/update whatever information shown on the Hukou at the local police precinct, but this is just one of the government systems that stored part of your wife's personal identity, backgrounds and histories. And you updated/changed part of the info on one system doesn't mean all other info on other systems will change and update automatically, the perfect example is your marriage registration in China. Officially, your are not couple anymore, at least to the local/city/province bureau of civil affairs (At least on the record, the birth parents shown on the changed Hukou won't match the previous one you used to register your marriage, and they would treat your wife as different person because of that). And one thing you have to understand, CIC does have a way to check official records stored on the Chinese correspondent government systems (Background Check?). Even CIC found that the Hukou changing is official, but that move would really confuse the hell out of them, because when they compare the other records they could obtain from the correspondent Chinese bureaus, there would be so many information that wouldn't match. Also, plus the province you wife resided and the timing of the change, don't you think that it would be so easy for CIC to make a conclusion that your marriage is not genuine or at least marriage of convenience? Oh, having a child in the wedlock is not sufficient enough to CIC that your marriage is genuine or not marriage of convenience.

My suggestion for you is to find a good lawyer in Vancouver or Toronto, there are bunch of them that can speak Chinese and/or are familiar with things or two in China. No, I don't have any referrals.

 

[Miraclejj]

When it came time for both families to rectify their respective hukou, were there any penalties assessed?

Were you married in China, and was this before or after the Hukou were corrected?

My wife and I were married in Hong Kong, and our son was also born in Hong Kong. Although Hong Kong is part of the China, it is recognized as a Special Administrative Region. As such, neither were registered in her hukou. We had proper marriage certificate and birth certificate which we had submitted along with our application, and CIC did not have any issues with the apparent discrepancies. Probably because they have come across this many times before.

Did you have a lawyer working with you throughout the appeal and judicial review? Was the lawyer well versed in the intricacies of the Chinese legal system?

I am not sure I understand why the VO thought that your wife could have gone to the US together with her aunt. Was her "aunt" the neighbour that her birth was registered under? Was your wife a minor at the time, and still on their hukou? Did your wife previously try to immigrate to the US, and was refused? You also mentioned the first rejection letter, was there more than one?

HK is completely a different territory/system compare with mainland China. Nowadays, even in mainland China, Hukou is not as important as used to be, but it is still one of the most important official documents to store all your personal identity, backgrounds and histories (because a lot official businesses/registrations would require Hukou to be presented/recorded, such as registering kids to School, buying houses, marriage, divorce and etc.) It is also true that after you registered your marriage with the local bureau of civil affairs with your Hukou presented, you don't have to update/change your marriage status on your Hukou at your local police precinct, like used to be (It is volunteer now and it was mandatory), but eventually you would go to change it at some point volunteerly, otherwise, it would make your life in China much more inconvenience and/or would cause some sort of troubles for yourselves living as a couple/family.

To my understanding, accuse of OP's marriage is not genuine or MOC is just the official answer by the book from field VO's perspective. We don't know the detail about how they lost their appeal from judge's perspective, so there is no way for us to determine the real situation. But from my perspective, I think there is a chain of evidences are missing. When Op's wife was born, her birth certificate/records would shown her neighbor as her birth parents, and now even considering her Hukou changing is official and legal, but per western and China's standard, this move is called adoption, and the key missing document to CIC is where is the official adoption paper. Then verse versa, if OP's wife provided DNA evidences to prove that her real parents are persons listed on her changed Hukou, then that means when she was born, she was adopted, and still where is the adoption paper.

Find a good lawyer and write a hell of a good explanation letter to CIC to explain why your wife was adopted without through official adoption channel and why her real bio-parents committed fraud that listed her neighbor as her birth parents on her birth certificate/record. Without cleansing the source of the mess, the rest of the mess will keep haunting you, no matter how many times you will re-apply. My 2 cents.