Please help - travelling with expired pr card

[laraJ]

My PR card has expired and I have applied for renewal in August 2013. There is an emergency and I have to travel to India. I will apply for travel document in India to return to Canada. I have more than 730 days and I meet the PR obligation.

Will there be any problem while boarding the flight in Canada / Frankfurt with my kids (who are canadian citizens) with the expired PR card?

Urgent - please help.
Thanks.

 

[steaky]

Yes there would be problem, especially if you are holding a non visa-exempted passport or don't have a travel document. The airlines might not let you board the plane.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Yes there would be problem, especially if you are holding a non visa-exempted passport or don't have a travel document. The airlines might not let you board the plane.

I believe the OP means boarding the flights to leave Canada, as s/he is aware of the need to apply for a PRTD in India to return to Canada.

Will there be any problem while boarding the flight in Canada / Frankfurt with my kids (who are canadian citizens) with the expired PR card?

No, they won't care about your card being expired when you leave.

 

[Msafiri]

You need to check if the German authorities will allow you to transit without needing a visa...they may exempt valid Canadian PR Card holders for example but if not then you need a Schengen visa.

 

[laraJ]

Yes, that is my concern too. How do I find out that? After reaching India I will apply for travel doc. Will there be any problem boarding air canada flight with expired PR?

Thanks.

 

[scylla]

Yes, that is my concern too. How do I find out that? After reaching India I will apply for travel doc. Will there be any problem boarding air canada flight with expired PR?

Thanks.

You can leave Canada with an expired PR card. However to board the plane to return to Canada you will need either a valid PR card or a valid travel document.

 

[Msafiri]

Yes, that is my concern too. How do I find out that? After reaching India I will apply for travel doc. Will there be any problem boarding air canada flight with expired PR?

Thanks.

Outbound

1. Travel from Canada to Frankurt - at check in you need Schengen visa or be German visa exempt. Indian nationals are not visa exempt. However if you are holding a valid PR Card you can transit no issues. You don't have a valid PR Card so you need to get a Schengen visa. Your Canadian citizen kids are ok as they are visa exempt.

2. From Frankfurt to India - no issues as you are Indian Citizen.

In bound

1. Travel from India to Frankfurt - your TD is a visa and allows transit no issues.

2. Travel from Frankfurt to Canada - your TD is proof of status for entry.

In summary your expired PR Card is not useful for visa exempt entry for the trip nor is it required. CBSA agent when your return to Canada has access to all relvant info...you should expect to be sent to Secondary Inspection. If Schengen visa for Germany an issue check if you can re-route via a different airport like Milan or Amsterdam. Either do the leg work or ask the airline which transit points are visa free for Indian Passport holders.

 

[laraJ]

Thanks Msafiri.

1. Can I apply for Travel document in Canada before leaving while waiting for PR renewal?

2. I checked with a travel agent and he said for Jet airways/KLM, I dont need a trasit visa. but he was not sure. Also do you know about emirates via Dubai, do I still need a transit visa?

Thanks for your help.

 

[neoseal]

You will need airport transit visa for Germany, in short Schengen visa.

http://www.lufthansa.com/online/portal/lh/in/local?nodeid=3116855&l=en

http://www.immihelp.com/visas/germanytransitvisa.html

Most countries including India have transit visa now, what a way to make life difficult for travelers, personally can't see any other reason apart for filling their coffers.

 

[scylla]

Thanks Msafiri.

1. Can I apply for Travel document in Canada before leaving while waiting for PR renewal?

No - you can only apply from outside of Canada.

 

[Msafiri]

Thanks Msafiri.

1. Can I apply for Travel document in Canada before leaving while waiting for PR renewal?

2. I checked with a travel agent and he said for Jet airways/KLM, I dont need a trasit visa. but he was not sure. Also do you know about emirates via Dubai, do I still need a transit visa?

Thanks for your help.

1. On paper yes just go to the visa post office for India - check via DFAIT/CIC sites. But in practice the post will want your passport to endorse the TD so all you are saving is the wait...visa post may however decide to interview you prior to issuing TD or require extensive documentation as evidence of claimed days in Canada prior to issuing TD. They may also simply say apply when you are in India so they can assess your residence obligation on actual application date. This in my opinion is the reason why pre-travel TD application is out of sync with the immigration law. Imagine a scenario where you have 730 days and pre-apply for a TD which is issued say by day 750. You then travel to say India get the TD and its valid for 6 months...you can stay outside Canada and fall out the 730 days so CIC are helping you breach the residence obligation. Likely when they were drafitng the law the CIC legal team missed this!! CIC get round this by giving visa posts significant latitude in processing TDs - some posts will require you to apply within 15 days of travel and issue a TD valid for 30 days.

2. The relevant country's immigration laws supercede the agents lack of knowldge though some airlines e.g Emirates can have visa arrangement deals. Check the Emirates site for the relevant info.

 

[Msafiri]

You will need airport transit visa for Germany, in short Schengen visa.

http://www.lufthansa.com/online/portal/lh/in/local?nodeid=3116855&l=en

http://www.immihelp.com/visas/germanytransitvisa.html

Most countries including India have transit visa now, what a way to make life difficult for travelers, personally can't see any other reason apart for filling their coffers.

Visa regime is based on risk profile of travellers - most developed countries have a visa regime for 3rd world countries because a high percentage of their nationals don't leave when they visit or transit the country. This is via overstaying or making asylum/ refugee claims either unfounded or true. The Netherlands is unusual by not imposing this transit visa requirement - this is likely business driven by making Amsterdam Schipol a key transit hub airport especially for travel from North America/Europe to Africa/ME/Asia. I personally find Schipol airport well laid out and convenient with ultra fast transfers.

 

[neoseal]

Visa regime is based on risk profile of travellers - most developed countries have a visa regime for 3rd world countries because a high percentage of their nationals don't leave when they visit or transit the country. This is via overstaying or making asylum/ refugee claims either unfounded or true. The Netherlands is unusual by not imposing this transit visa requirement - this is likely business driven by making Amsterdam Schipol a key transit hub airport especially for travel from North America/Europe to Africa/ME/Asia. I personally find Schipol airport well laid out and convenient with ultra fast transfers.

Msafiri, you are right, however if governments really want to keep track of travellers, they can with just the airline data they have. Visitor visa is understandable, but in transit that too for few hours? Even with transit visa, if people want to disappear they can, does happen.

Schipol wants to be key hub, however competition is tough from Paris and Frankfurt, if Heathrow gets third runway and 6th terminal, no way others can beat it in near future. Drawback of Heathrow is travellers will need to make their way in between terminals, but then they have this new Personal Pod Rapit transit system being phased out.

Schipol is good alternative, I would say, people who need transit visa must start looking at flight thru Schipol to eliminate the transit visa stress. Also flying thru some far eastern countries don't require transit visa.

 

[Msafiri]

1. Its easier to prevent illegal immigration at source hence the visa regime. This places the risk burden on the applicant...why should the government commit resource to tracking visitors via airline data as a primary tool while it can do it as a secondary tool. The person getting a visa is usually considered of a low immigration risk profile and even if they claim asylum depending on where this is they could be facing detention or living on welfare levels. Asylum claims can be done at any time when on the 'soil' of any country to include even a 30 minute stop over if that was feasible...so its only transit doesn't cut it!

2. Travel between Heathrow terminals is actually reasonable but the airport is operating at the margins of capacity...on a bad day the check in lines stretch out to the street. The runway issue is also challenging due to environmental reasons. Additional capacity at Gatwick and Stanstead coupled with the political angles in a coalition government gives the 3rd runway a head-ache it doesn't need. Main challenge though is Heathrow in the wrong location (residential) for an airport today. No contest for Paris - CDG has poor transfers, Frankfurt less so...maybe I've just been unlucky!