Please advise - Arranged marriage | Sponsor Spouse | Apply or Wait?

[nealat]

Hello,

Will the experienced members please advise me about what shall I do in my case?

I and my wife were introduced to each other by our parents in the month of January'19. Since then we were in constant touch, texting and calling each other on WhatsApp and Skype. In between January-April, The girl's brother(he is in Canada) visited me once and our families met twice in India. At the beginning of April, I traveled to India and me along with my family visited the girl's place. We met there in person for the first time. We both agreed to go ahead with this relationship. After a gap of one day in between, we had a small ceremony in a hotel where we exchanged rings and garlands as well. This ceremony was performed by a priest and in the presence of 30-35 of our closest relatives. A day after, we submitted the documents and the photographs of the ceremony in a local court to register our marriage and get the marriage registration certificate. All of it happened within the period of 7 days I was in India. We wanted to get the marriage certificate to get an advantage of a few months in our spouse sponsorship application.

I have a lot many photographs of the day when we met for the first time, our ring/marriage ceremony, the day she came to drop me off at the airport. Apart from this, our skype and WhatsApp conversations.

I am wondering shall I go ahead and I apply for the spouse visa now as we are officially married. Will CIC approve our application or there will be issues? Or, Shall I wait till the end of this year to have a wasteful big fat Indian wedding and apply only after that? This will mean that we can't start our life together until the end of 2020.

What are your suggestions?

 

[21Goose]

Arranged marriages, especially ones that happen so quickly, are red flags for immigration purposes. You can try applying but you can expect your application to go through extensive scrutiny and your burden of proof will be quite high.

It's not impossible to get sponsorship, but think how you can prove that the marriage is not a marriage of convenience (i.e done for the purpose of getting Canadian residency). This may be obvious to you, but think about how you can prove it to a skeptical IRCC official.

 

[nealat]

Thank you @21Goose for sharing your opinion.

I wonder how badly our case will be affected if I apply now and unfortunately end up with a refusal. What will be our next steps?

Also, In case, if we go for an elaborate marriage towards the end of this year and then apply but our marriage certificate has already been made. I wonder how we will justify this then.

 

[canuck78]

The expectations would be that your arranged marriage would have been a more elaborate ceremony so a simple ceremony is usually seen as only for immigration. How many days were you actually married before you left?

 

[21Goose]

Thank you @21Goose for sharing your opinion.

I wonder how badly our case will be affected if I apply now and unfortunately end up with a refusal. What will be our next steps?

Also, In case, if we go for an elaborate marriage towards the end of this year and then apply but our marriage certificate has already been made. I wonder how we will justify this then.

If you end up with a refusal because IRCC doubts that your marriage is genuine I think it would be a pretty big deal. The next step would be to appeal that decision or try and reapply. In your case you'd probably want to appeal since reapplying won't do much - it's not like you can submit a few more documents to prove that the marriage was indeed genuine. Appealing will need a lawyer/consultant - you really don't want to do that yourself.

Don't get me wrong, it's not impossible to apply right now, but you may want to consult a lawyer so that you can submit a really strong application. You know you're starting out with red flags and a lawyer can help you with specific advice based on your circumstances.

The biggest red flag is the extreme rapidity of the whole thing. You started talking in Jan, you met for one day in April, and got married the next day, and left in 5 days. Again, don't get me wrong, I'm from India and I know these things happen, but it raises questions when you're applying for PR for your wife whom you've only spent a few weeks with.

To play devil's advocate, if I suspect that your in-laws paid you 25 lakhs to marry their daughter and bring her to Canada, and then get divorced a few months later, how will you prove otherwise?

 

[canuck78]

Just realized you also said she came and dropped you off at the airport which means that you weren’t living as husband and wife which will be one of the concerns.

 

[zt2018]

I have a feeling that IRCC might treat your current status as "engaged" rather than "married" because it looks like there has been no actual wedding yet.

 

[nealat]

The expectations would be that your arranged marriage would have been a more elaborate ceremony so a simple ceremony is usually seen as only for immigration. How many days were you actually married before you left?

@canuck78 Exactly 4 days.
As I said the hurry was to get the marriage certificate so that we can begin the process to sponsor her. The ceremony we had can almost be shown off as marriage as all our relatives were there. A priest performed the ceremony. Our families do want to have a bigger wedding ceremony towards the end of this year.

Just realized you also said she came and dropped you off at the airport which means that you weren’t living as husband and wife which will be one of the concerns.

Yup, that's right. We had our engagement/wedding ceremony. Spent the next day at the local court to get the certificate done. The day after that in packing my stuff and paying off bills for the ceremony. Then, the next day I had my flight for which she came to the airport to see me off.

 

[nealat]

If you end up with a refusal because IRCC doubts that your marriage is genuine I think it would be a pretty big deal. The next step would be to appeal that decision or try and reapply. In your case you'd probably want to appeal since reapplying won't do much - it's not like you can submit a few more documents to prove that the marriage was indeed genuine. Appealing will need a lawyer/consultant - you really don't want to do that yourself.

Don't get me wrong, it's not impossible to apply right now, but you may want to consult a lawyer so that you can submit a really strong application. You know you're starting out with red flags and a lawyer can help you with specific advice based on your circumstances.

The biggest red flag is the extreme rapidity of the whole thing. You started talking in Jan, you met for one day in April, and got married the next day, and left in 5 days. Again, don't get me wrong, I'm from India and I know these things happen, but it raises questions when you're applying for PR for your wife whom you've only spent a few weeks with.

To play devil's advocate, if I suspect that your in-laws paid you 25 lakhs to marry their daughter and bring her to Canada, and then get divorced a few months later, how will you prove otherwise?

@21Goose yes I am really afraid of refusal. As far as I know, going through the appeal and then reapplying will only lengthen the processing time in our case.

I can certainly consult a lawyer. If you have any good recommendation for a lawyer please let me know.

The rapidity of the whole thing is only because we wanted to gain an advantage of a few months in our application processing. And no, we didn't get a chance to spend even a few weeks together. As I mentioned to @canuck78 as well, our families will still be having a bigger wedding ceremony towards the end of this year. To them, that will be our marriage. Legally, we went ahead with hosting a smaller event and getting our marriage registered so that we can start our lives together at least at the start of the next year.

And about 25 lakhs, unfortunately, such things do happen in the society. However, In our case, to show that no such money transactions took place can we show our family bank account statements and of course ours as well. Your question is a good one and extremely difficult to prove otherwise.

 

[nealat]

I have a feeling that IRCC might treat your current status as "engaged" rather than "married" because it looks like there has been no actual wedding yet.

@zt2018 Thank you for participating in the conversation.

If IRCC is not okay with having a smaller Indian wedding event with about 30-35 of closest family members present and with me coming back to Canada after 4 days of the wedding then I am not sure how to prove it.

I wonder what happens if IRCC decides that ours is an engagement and not actual wedding in spite of having a legal marriage certificate attached. Do we get a chance to reapply without any repercussions?

 

[zt2018]

I believe somebody on this forum was in the similar situation recently. Check with them regarding their experience. I'm sorry, but you youself keep saying that the ceremony you had was just for the immigration purposes. I'm afraid IRCC might see it this way. I have a feeling that if you follow tradition (arranged marriage) they might you to follow it 100%, i.e. big tradional wedding, traditional honeymoon etc.

 

[tdsw26]

@21Goose yes I am really afraid of refusal. As far as I know, going through the appeal and then reapplying will only lengthen the processing time in our case.

I can certainly consult a lawyer. If you have any good recommendation for a lawyer please let me know.

The rapidity of the whole thing is only because we wanted to gain an advantage of a few months in our application processing. And no, we didn't get a chance to spend even a few weeks together. As I mentioned to @canuck78 as well, our families will still be having a bigger wedding ceremony towards the end of this year. To them, that will be our marriage. Legally, we went ahead with hosting a smaller event and getting our marriage registered so that we can start our lives together at least at the start of the next year.

And about 25 lakhs, unfortunately, such things do happen in the society. However, In our case, to show that no such money transactions took place can we show our family bank account statements and of course ours as well. Your question is a good one and extremely difficult to prove otherwise.

"As I said the hurry was to get the marriage certificate so that we can begin the process to sponsor her. " <---- they will definitely see this as a marriage of convenience if that is the case, unfortunately. They will not view it as an "engagement" if you are married. But they may not be easily convinced that it is genuine. Maybe try include proof in your application that it was not possible to stay for a longer visit following the ceremony (employer letter perhaps attached to the explanation of why the trip was so short) and also any receipts or proof that you have already started planning for your larger ceremony to come.

 

[paint.thinner]

I don't mean to offend anyone. Just posting how I feel. Just my opinions...

Maybe try include proof in your application that it was not possible to stay for a longer visit following the ceremony (employer letter perhaps attached to the explanation of why the trip was so short) and also any receipts or proof that you have already started planning for your larger ceremony to come.

@nealat why did you go for such a short time? Do you have a valid reason? If you do, show this to IRCC that you had to come back. Completely agreed with @tdsw26 on this

This ceremony was performed by a priest and in the presence of 30-35 of our closest relatives

Ok, I don't want to bring up religion, but as long as that event in April was done according to your religion and as you have mentioned you now have all legal documents like marriage certificate to prove your marriage is done and complete in India, I think you are good to go. Indian weddings are known around the world to be massive, with hundreds or thousands of people coming into the events and the events going on for several days/weeks. But hey, there are some poor people getting married in India too and they definitely don't have such big weddings. I am not saying you are poor, but I am just saying that I think it is ok to have a small Indian wedding as long as your relationship is genuine.

Now, I agree with most of the people who have posted earlier in this thread that your words may sound like a marriage of convenience. This is a serious issue. Here's what I would suggest:

1) If possible, tell your family not to wait until the end of the year (I know winter is great for weddings?) and try to have the big event earlier. I know it's important for all your relatives and friends to be able to make it to the wedding, so they might want to push it back to the end of the year, but it is more important for you and your wife to start and lead your lives together. Waiting for months to have a nice big wedding ceremony during the winter months, and on the other hand, staying away from your spouse for such a long time (even longer if you get a refusal and have to reapply/appeal) does not make sense. I would just prepone the wedding as much as possible.

2) Go visit her for no damn reason. She is your wife and you are supposed to spend time with her. Don't wait for her to get a PR visa and come to Canada so you can start your lives together. You can go to India, or decide on a place that would be convenient for both of you and you guys can make your own ways to that place (for example, Turkey, which is like halfway between Canada and India and could a great honeymoon destination). Work your a** off in Canada for a couple of weeks, make some extra money, take 2-3 weeks off your work, if your boss doesn't allow vacation then just leave your job, and go visit your wife. When you come back to Canada, you can find another job if necessary. I might sound very extreme, but this is nothing impossible. And have that mindset that if for some reason your wife is not granted a visa in the long run, you are ready to move back to India or a country that would allow you to live with your wife, i.e. giving up your Canadian career/future for the sake of living with your wife. This is the mindset that you should have.

@nealat it's ok to travel from Canada to India 3 times a year, if it is necessary. I know it's expensive and don't tell me about the jet lag. But it's ok. Spend all your money and go visit her. Then come back and go again at the end of the year for your big wedding, if required. You can always make money in Canada, but you won't probably get this "newly married couple" phase ever back in your life.

 

[21Goose]

@zt2018 Thank you for participating in the conversation.

If IRCC is not okay with having a smaller Indian wedding event with about 30-35 of closest family members present and with me coming back to Canada after 4 days of the wedding then I am not sure how to prove it.

I wonder what happens if IRCC decides that ours is an engagement and not actual wedding in spite of having a legal marriage certificate attached. Do we get a chance to reapply without any repercussions?

It's not about the fact that the wedding was small - lots of people in India have small weddings. That's perfectly legal, and you are legally married. IRCC will not challenge the legality of your marriage.

The issue is that your relationship with your wife is so new (you haven't known her in person for even a week).

IRCC may feel that while the marriage is legal, it was done solely for the purposes of immigration. IF they think so, they will deny her sponsorship.

The way to counter this is explain why the marriage happened so quick, and why you haven't spent any time with your wife. That's where a lawyer comes in because this is a subjective explanation and will depend on your precise circumstances. An experienced attorney can tell you what explanations are likely to succeed. This can be a combination of your employment, her employment, family tradition, compelling reasons (maybe your grandmother is very ill and wanted to see you married before she passes) that kind of thing.

I don't know any lawyers, but you can try contacting the firm that hosts this forum. I know they've been around for a long time, they ought to be able to help.

 

[vinitmenon]

Hello,

Will the experienced members please advise me about what shall I do in my case?

I and my wife were introduced to each other by our parents in the month of January'19. Since then we were in constant touch, texting and calling each other on WhatsApp and Skype. In between January-April, The girl's brother(he is in Canada) visited me once and our families met twice in India. At the beginning of April, I traveled to India and me along with my family visited the girl's place. We met there in person for the first time. We both agreed to go ahead with this relationship. After a gap of one day in between, we had a small ceremony in a hotel where we exchanged rings and garlands as well. This ceremony was performed by a priest and in the presence of 30-35 of our closest relatives. A day after, we submitted the documents and the photographs of the ceremony in a local court to register our marriage and get the marriage registration certificate. All of it happened within the period of 7 days I was in India. We wanted to get the marriage certificate to get an advantage of a few months in our spouse sponsorship application.

I have a lot many photographs of the day when we met for the first time, our ring/marriage ceremony, the day she came to drop me off at the airport. Apart from this, our skype and WhatsApp conversations.

I am wondering shall I go ahead and I apply for the spouse visa now as we are officially married. Will CIC approve our application or there will be issues? Or, Shall I wait till the end of this year to have a wasteful big fat Indian wedding and apply only after that? This will mean that we can't start our life together until the end of 2020.

What are your suggestions?

I started talking to my wife in june 2018, September we did civil marriage. We met first time in person on 9th and got married on 10th. I applied for her pr in jan and jan end we had our ritual marriage. We were asked for additional proof of relation on april 2nd and she got approved as pr 3-4 days back. So its not exactly a red flag. But be prepared to prove ur relation. And make sure u guys talk in english on text msgs as they now need translation of all the chat thats not in english or french.