PGP 2020

[nayr69sg]

By and large Canadians are very sympathetic to sad stories. It shows the big heart in Canadians. They always want to help and watch out for a fellow person.

Which asks the question would Canadians be more accepting of immigrants who come to Canada poor and in need of dire help than the rich and wealthy?

I think the answer is yes. And politically it is more in line with Canadian values.

For those who talk about using immigrants as a economic development tool getting rich investors etc that speaks more to the capitalists and conservative group which is controversial.

 

[jadeja]

What a healthy discussion on PGP?
I'm amazed the amount of energy people spend in talking about something which is irrelevant. They must have given up their gym membership.

 

[Dainik]

What a healthy discussion on PGP?
I'm amazed the amount of energy people spend in talking about something which is irrelevant. They must have given up their gym membership.

Thanks for joining.

 

[screech339]

How will you know they are future income taxpayers that will contribute to society's cost? They can leave Canada right after being born or after received their free Canadian benefits, and as adult never contribute to Canadian society.

While we can't control how many newborns are born in Canada, at least we can control how many PGP parents/grandparents can get in.
(BTW: birth tourism do exist in Canada).

Why do you think we are all wanting SKILLED immigrants to come to Canada. To help Canada build and support social benefits by working and paying income tax. While we want skilled immigrants to come to Canada, we are not forcing the immigrants to come to Canada. They made a choice to come here. Skilled immigrants pay income tax, along with every able-bodied workers, that help supports medical care cost and federal pensions for example.

As I said before, the social system is based on a pyramid system whereby the bottom young workers support the seniors / retired people at the top. The base of the pyramid is getting smaller due to lower birth rates and lower numbers of workers. Bringing in SKILLED immigrants will help fill the void. Bringing in more PGP seniors, however small you think it is, to add to the top is not helping.

 

[basmalahh]

Hi all,

I reviewed the CIC website for the PGP 2020 updates and I couldn't find any useful information.

Does anyone have any updates or even know when the updates will arrive?

Thanks,

 

[steaky]

While we can't control how many newborns are born in Canada, at least we can control how many PGP parents/grandparents can get in. (BTW: birth tourism do exist in Canada).

Why do you think we are all wanting SKILLED immigrants to come to Canada. To help Canada build and support social benefits by working and paying income tax. While we want skilled immigrants to come to Canada, we are not forcing the immigrants to come to Canada. They made a choice to come here. Income tax that supports medical care / pensions for example.

As I said, the social system is based on a pyramid system whereby the bottom young workers support the top the senior / retired people. The base of the pyramid is getting smaller due to lower birth rates and lower numbers of workers. Bringing in SKILLED immigrants will help fill the void. Bringing in more PGP seniors, however small it is, to add to the top is not helping.

Actually I'm neutral about skilled and PGP immigrants in coming to Canada. I know a lot of people who came to Canada first as skilled worker and quit their job after getting PR. They left Canada after getting citizenship. How is your pyramid going to help in the long run?

 

[nayr69sg]

What a healthy discussion on PGP?
I'm amazed the amount of energy people spend in talking about something which is irrelevant. They must have given up their gym membership.

Thank you. My gym is at home.

IRCC will release more details about the PGP for 2020 after April 1 2020.

So until then we wait.

 

[screech339]

Actually I'm neutral about skilled and PGP immigrants in coming to Canada. I know a lot of people who came to Canada first as skilled worker and quit their job after getting PR. They left Canada after getting citizenship. How is your pyramid going to help in the long run?

Why did you think Harper government brought in the rule of having to stay in Canada while applying for citizenship until citizenship is obtained, increased qualification 4/6 and removed pre-PR credit. It is to, at least, give an immigrant a chance to stay longer to make Canada their home. Staying two years after getting PR doesn't allow immigrants to actually grow roots in Canada. It is one of the tools to help reduce those seeking citizenship for convenience's sake. Since Trudeau took that away along with reducing citizenship qualifications (including pre-PR credit and dropping it down to 3/5 instead of 4/6), we are now seeing a lot of posts on here asking if they can leave Canada after they mailed in the citizenship application. In other words, applying for citizenship on their way to the airport. Even a federal citizenship judge has mentioned this ongoing problem. If they don't want to be "forced" to stay until they get citizenship, they are welcome to leave Canada. No one is stopping them. They shouldn't deserve to have it in the first place since obviously Canada was never their intended home. Only interested in getting citizenship to access social benefits at a later time. (ie passing citizenship to their children to gain free school education). Does the Lebanese-Canadian evacuation ring any bells?

 

[nayr69sg]

While we can't control how many newborns are born in Canada, at least we can control how many PGP parents/grandparents can get in.
(BTW: birth tourism do exist in Canada).

Why do you think we are all wanting SKILLED immigrants to come to Canada. To help Canada build and support social benefits by working and paying income tax. While we want skilled immigrants to come to Canada, we are not forcing the immigrants to come to Canada. They made a choice to come here. Skilled immigrants pay income tax, along with every able-bodied workers, that help supports medical care cost and federal pensions for example.

As I said before, the social system is based on a pyramid system whereby the bottom young workers support the seniors / retired people at the top. The base of the pyramid is getting smaller due to lower birth rates and lower numbers of workers. Bringing in SKILLED immigrants will help fill the void. Bringing in more PGP seniors, however small you think it is, to add to the top is not helping.

So how many PGP parents/grandparents should get in per year? Zero?

 

[nayr69sg]

Why you think Harper government brought in the rule of having to stay in Canada while applying for citizenship, increased qualification 4/6 and removed pre-PR credit. It is to at least give an immigrant to stay longer to make Canada their home. Staying two years after getting PR doesn't allow people to actually grow roots in Canada. It is one of the tools to help reduce those seeking citizenship for convenience's sake. Since the liberals took that away along with reducing citizenship qualifications (including pre-PR credit and dropping it down to 3/5 instead of 4/6), we are now seeing a lot of posts on here asking if they can leave Canada after they mailed in the citizenship application. In other words, applying for citizenship on their way to airport. Even a federal judge has mentioned that ongoing problem. If they don't want to be "forced" to stay until they get citizenship, they are welcome to leave Canada. No one is stopping them. They shouldn't deserve to have it in the first place since obviously Canada was never their intended home. Only interested in getting citizenship to access social benefits at a later time. (ie passing citizenship to their children to gain free school education). Does the Lebanese-Canadian evacuation ring any bells?

One method is to have Canada make dual citizenship illegal in Canada. Some countries do that.

Then you no longer have this problem. If someone wants to be a Canadian citizen they have to renounce their other citizenships.

We have seen much problems with dual citizenships. For example in the recent Iran Plane crash incident, the Iranians are saying that they would not recognize victims who have dual Canandian-Iranian citizenships as being Canadian. they consider them Iranian.

This has to be a nightmare for Canadian Foreign Affairs officials. Same with some who get arrested in Egypt and Egypt says that because the Canadian also holds Egyptian citizenship they will trial him as a Egyptian.

So just ask everyone to give up their multiple citizenships. If you are Canadian you are just Canadian and nothing else. No ambiguity or confusion. Also it means you cant pack up and go to another country for convenience.

Key word is convenience. You can't have your cake and eat it.

 

[screech339]

So how many PGP parents/grandparents should get in per year? Zero?

Not necessary zero, but we can reduce it down to 5000 from it's current cap until at least PGP backlog is completed cleared first. The cap was put in place so IRCC can begin working on clearing the PGP backlog. (Increasing the cap from 5000 to it's current cap only slow down the time it will take to clear the backlog, maybe to the point of defeating the purpose). Then increase the cap slowly based on manpower to complete PGP application in a reasonable time. Once PGP backlog begins again, either keep the cap there or dial it back.

 

[nayr69sg]

Not necessary zero, but we can reduce it down to 5000 from 10000 until at least PGP backlog is completed cleared first. Then increase the cap slowly based on manpower to complete PGP application in a reasonable time. Once PGP backlog begins again, either keep the cap there or dial it back.

Hmm I thought the main argument is that PGP impacts on health care resources. So I thought reducing PGP was meant to help reduce that burden.

But you are saying you would dial it back because of backlog and lack of manpower to process PGP? That's a different consideration isnt it?

So let's say there is no more backlog and we have no manpower issues at IRCC. How many PGP grandparent/parents would you take in a year in order for the pyramid supported healthcare system to stay alive?

 

[screech339]

Hmm I thought the main argument is that PGP impacts on health care resources. So I thought reducing PGP was meant to help reduce that burden.

But you are saying you would dial it back because of backlog and lack of manpower to process PGP? That's a different consideration isnt it?

So let's say there is no more backlog. How many PGP grandparent/parents would you take in a year in order for the pyramid support system to stay alive?

It is a compassionate program. It is not fair to the PGP parents/grandparents to be waiting years to get their PR because all the immigrants want to bring their parents. We don't have the resources / manpower to handle the burden. We are not that cruel. At the same time, we are not obligated to bring in PGP parents/grandparents either.

 

[nayr69sg]

It is a compassionate program. It is not fair to the PGP parents/grandparents to be waiting years to get their PR because all the immigrants want to bring their parents. We don't have the resources / manpower to handle the burden. We are not that cruel. At the same time, we are not obligated to bring in PGP parents/grandparents either.

It is a compassionate program. Charity I would say. But what we have been discussing is how this act of charity is causing the current healthcare system to collapse.

Why isn't it fair for people to wait when it comes to charity? can beggars be choosers?

that comment about we are not that cruel.....

This is what I am talking about. On one hand Canadians complain about how PGP coming in adds burden to already broken healthcare system. How it is disastrous. On the other hand, oh we are not that cruel.

Last you did say we are not obligated to bring in PGP either. That is absolutely correct.

Sorry. But when you decide on something you have to take all the pros and cons. You can't have it all.

Ideally we want to be charitable and compassionate and bring in as many parents as we CAN. At the same time we do not want our healthcare system to collapse.

So how many parents does it mean we can AFFORD to take in?

or @screech339 is your solution to all this actually to privatize healthcare and not mess with the current PGP program?

I am finding that Canadians really want to come across as nice and accomodating and welcoming etc but will also complain about how in doing the above the healthcare system is overburdened! Gosh. It's like enjoying the benefits of having a credit card and spending a lot and then saying oh gosh we have a debt problem. Sounds familiar? LOL!

 

[screech339]

It is a compassionate program. Charity I would say. But what we have been discussing is how this act of charity is causing the current healthcare system to collapse.

Why isn't it fair for people to wait when it comes to charity? can beggars be choosers?

that comment about we are not that cruel.....

This is what I am talking about. On one hand Canadians complain about how PGP coming in adds burden to already broken healthcare system. How it is disastrous. On the other hand, oh we are not that cruel.

Last you did say we are not obligated to bring in PGP either. That is absolutely correct.

Sorry. But when you decide on something you have to take all the pros and cons. You can't have it all.

Ideally we want to be charitable and compassionate and bring in as many parents as we CAN. At the same time we do not want our healthcare system to collapse.

So how many parents does it mean we can AFFORD to take in?

or @screech339 is your solution to all this actually to privatize healthcare and not mess with the current PGP program?

I am finding that Canadians really want to come across as nice and accomodating and welcoming etc but will also complain about how in doing the above the healthcare system is overburdened! Gosh. It's like enjoying the benefits of having a credit card and spending a lot and then saying oh gosh we have a debt problem. Sounds familiar? LOL!

We are not that cruel to PGP parents/grandparents to wait years for them to get PR after their application got accepted. When you apply for get a service from the government, are you willing to wait say 2-3 years standing at the booth to get any service? No. Same applies to PGP program. While we are providing the service, the least we can do is offer it with at minimal burden to the taxpayers at a reasonable rate. That including expecting a reasonable wait time for PGP to get PR. Just because I have to take all the pros and cons with PGP doesn't mean that all the immigrants must bring their parents in either. The only pro side of PGP is that it is only a potential perk to attract immigrants to come work in Canada and that applicant knows that the taxpayers will be paying for their parents' health care. The cons side of PGP is extra burden the parents will have on the health care system since they never paid into the system.

I have already said that I rather swap PGP sponsorship for sibling sponsorship myself. At least with the sibling, they are able-bodied people who can work and contribute to income tax support health care / pension.

Yes, Canada government has a spending problem. Spending more than it generates revenue.