Permission for Daughter to Immigrate to Canada IMM 5604

[alemoo]

Hello,

The notary is refusing to notarize this document.

My wife and her biological daughter are Mexican nationals living in Mexico. The biological father is in prison in Mexico indefinitely. The notary refuses to sign anything that is in English (this form in question), and also refuses to sign a certified translated Spanish copy of the form (their logic is that it is not the original document). What can we do? There is obviously no official Spanish version of this form.

 

[OhCanadiana]

Hello,

The notary is refusing to notarize this document.

My wife and her biological daughter are Mexican nationals living in Mexico. The biological father is in prison in Mexico indefinitely. The notary refuses to sign anything that is in English (this form in question), and also refuses to sign a certified translated Spanish copy of the form (their logic is that it is not the original document). What can we do? There is obviously no official Spanish version of this form.

Here's some thought starters:

1. Consider writing a new original document that includes all the details (but is an original so the notary is ok with it) and then submit a certified translation into English along with an explanation that you didn't use the original form because the Notary wouldn't notarize a document in English. I suspect the content is more important than the 'original form' for the Canadians and the Embassy in Mexico should be familiar with the fact that notary services in Mexico are different from those in, say, the US or Canada.

2. Have you tried asking for advice, as a Canadian citizen, from Consular Services at the nearest Embassy/Consulate in Mexico? Perhaps if they have an officer going to the prison, they could notarize the original form...

3. If he wasn't in prison, I'd suggest going to the US Embassy in Mexico City, if convenient, as they offer notary services. I mention this as it may give you and your wife ideas on alternate resolution paths (e.g., is there a US consular officer visiting the prison??? It may be a long shot, but...)

 

[alemoo]

Thansk OhCanadiana for the quick reply.
I called CIC on my work break and they advised basically what you did - a letter from the Notary explaining why they will not sign it, and also have him write a letter in front of the notary in his own words, providing all the required information. I'm confused about your having mentioned USA however...

 

[OhCanadiana]

Thansk OhCanadiana for the quick reply.
I called CIC on my work break and they advised basically what you did - a letter from the Notary explaining why they will not sign it, and also have him write a letter in front of the notary in his own words, providing all the required information. I'm confused about your having mentioned USA however...

Glad you have a path forward. Hopefully the notary will be willing to write the letter =)

Re US comment .... the US Embassy in Mexico City offers notary services (by a US notary). Since US rules for notaries are different from the Mexican ones, if he wasn't in prison you could get the document notarized at the US Embassy. Since he is in prison, you'd have to ask the Embassy if perchance a US notary will be at that prison (e.g., visiting a US citizen) and if they could/would notarize the document for you. Not sure if they could/would but just shared the thought as a possible alternative to explore.

FWIW, the Canadian Embassy used to offer notary services too (e.g., to sign letters for children traveling with alone or with only one parent) but paused / ceased doing so a few years ago.

 

[canadianwoman]

You might try phoning different notaries and see if they all have the same attitude as the one you have. Maybe it is a personal thing, not an official policy.

 

[alemoo]

My wife called 3 different notaries and was told the same thing. I'm going to call the Canadian embassy tomorrow when they are open and also the US Embassy and see what happens. it seems pretty stupid that a notary would have such a high level of discretion in deciding what they want to sign and what they don't. we are paying the money. As long as it is a legal request, they should not be able to choose to not do so.

 

[canadianwoman]

Agree with you there. You've gone to great lengths to make sure the father knows what he is signing, and he is trying to do what is best for his child.

 

[OhCanadiana]

It's a lost in (cultural) translation thing. Similar titles but very different roles in different juristictions.

In Mexico, Notarios Públicos are highly regulated lawyers, who are appointed to a very limited number of positions (based on test results after working under a notary for a certain number of years). As I understand it, if they certify that a document is a true copy of the original, for example, they are on the hook that the original is really an original. Similarly, the notary would have to be certain that the signatory knows shat he is signing (and from prior posts, my understanding is that the ex is not fluent in English). Whereas in the US and Canada AFAIK, a notary is simply verifying identity of the signer (and the content of the document is irrelevant).

There's a pretty good discussion at http://www.sos.state.tx.us/statdoc/notariopublicoarticle.shtml, including:

In Mexico, the incorporation of every company, the buying and selling of all types of real estate, the establishment of deeds and wills, the creation of mortgages, among other transactions, must be protocolized by a Notario Publico. Additionally, in certain cases, failure by a Notario Publico to properly calculate and withhold taxes can result in personal liability. Franciso Visoso, Notario Publico number 145 for Mexico City notes, "It is the Notario Publico’s responsibility to labor over the document and make sure it is in conformance with the law." In many respects, the Mexican Notario Publico serves not only as a lawyer but also as a judge in his role as protector of the law."xiii For example, next to the Notario Publico’s signature on a document is the phrase "I Give Faith" (Doy Fe).

This is very distinct from the Texas system where, as Guy Joyner, Chief of the Legal Support Unit to the Office of the Texas Secretary of State notes, "A Texas Notary Public's primary duty is to verify a signer's identity and signature, and attest that the signer personally appeared before the Notary at the time the notarization was taken. The Notary is not verifying the truth of the statements in the document. The individual appearing before the Notary and signing the document is responsible for the truth of such statements. The Notary is only responsible for the truth of the statements in the notarial certificate that the Notary completes, which says the person appeared before the Notary and that such person signed or acknowledged his signature on the document on a specified date."xiv