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Permanent Residency Obligations Not Met - First Time PR Holder

mequitnever

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Jul 20, 2022
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Hi,

I am a Canadian PR since March 22, 2019. I have stayed in Canada for about a week and then left on March 29, 2019.
I am planning to return to Canada to restart my life. In the meantime, I started a business which went bust due to Covid. I got married in November 2021 and now want to start a fresh life in Canada and put down my roots.

I did my masters on student visa in Canada and then worked for about an year on PGWP at hospitals before getting into Express Entry pool.

My travel dates are flexible. To wind things up, earliest I can move to Canada is in the first week of October 2022. Since I will be out of residency compliance, I am nervous about the move, specifically the fear of being reported by the CBSA at the port of entry. If reported, I would rather renounce/relinquish the permanent residency than go through appeals.

My questions are as follows:

1. What would be the best airport to enter that would mitigate the risk of being reported or asked for secondary inspection. I read about "automated gates" at Toronto Airport (YYZ) that offer minimal scrutiny.

2. What would be the best time to arrive at port of entry (airport). Again, I read somewhere that afternoon arrival is the busiest time at airport and could offer minimal scrutiny.

3. What questions are usually asked by CBSA to PR holders and how best to form the answers.

4. What and when is the secondary inspection, what questions are asked and how to prepare for those answers.

5. Is it a good idea to prepare a cover letter to show to the officer. Is it worth retaining an IRCC lawyer for this.

Any help or guidance would be much appreciated. Thank you!

Love,
mequitnever
 

scylla

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Hi,

I am a Canadian PR since March 22, 2019. I have stayed in Canada for about a week and then left on March 29, 2019.
I am planning to return to Canada to restart my life. In the meantime, I started a business which went bust due to Covid. I got married in November 2021 and now want to start a fresh life in Canada and put down my roots.

I did my masters on student visa in Canada and then worked for about an year on PGWP at hospitals before getting into Express Entry pool.

My travel dates are flexible. To wind things up, earliest I can move to Canada is in the first week of October 2022. Since I will be out of residency compliance, I am nervous about the move, specifically the fear of being reported by the CBSA at the port of entry. If reported, I would rather renounce/relinquish the permanent residency than go through appeals.

My questions are as follows:

1. What would be the best airport to enter that would mitigate the risk of being reported or asked for secondary inspection. I read about "automated gates" at Toronto Airport (YYZ) that offer minimal scrutiny.

2. What would be the best time to arrive at port of entry (airport). Again, I read somewhere that afternoon arrival is the busiest time at airport and could offer minimal scrutiny.

3. What questions are usually asked by CBSA to PR holders and how best to form the answers.

4. What and when is the secondary inspection, what questions are asked and how to prepare for those answers.

5. Is it a good idea to prepare a cover letter to show to the officer. Is it worth retaining an IRCC lawyer for this.

Any help or guidance would be much appreciated. Thank you!

Love,
mequitnever
There's no preferred airport or time. Pick whatever works for you.

I don't think it's necessary to retain a lawyer or have a letter. If anything, this might work against you. I would simply be prepared to explain why you were outside of Canada so long and to also explain that you are now moving to Canada permanently. If you have any evidence to show your move is permanent (e.g. job, property rental, etc.) then it would be a very good idea to carry this evidence. However it's entirely possible you won't need it and won't face any questions.

Is your spouse already Canadian? Note that since you are out of compliance on your residency obligation, you'll need to wait two years (to meet the residency obligation) before you will be able to sponsor a spouse for PR.
 
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Ponga

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As per usual, I echo the advice from @scylla.

Secondary inspection is, by definition, an elevated examination. I suspect that any relevant questions, including "Why did you remain outside of Canada for more than 730 days, so that you now cannot meet your R.O." (or similar) could be asked. Depending on the answer, who knows if the officer would create a report under A44(1). That is the only way that a PR could then lose their status, but the report would not in and of itself mean that the status would ultimately be revoked; there would be an appeal hearing at least.

Since some people with even more days outside of Canada have had zero problems, meaning not questioned or reported, it could simply boil down to the mood of the officer that is encountered at Primary inspection.
 

YVR123

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Jul 27, 2017
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Did you apply for a SIN card back then? If not, you may not be able to get one if you get reported. I believe your PR card is still valid.
 

armoured

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Feb 1, 2015
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3. What questions are usually asked by CBSA to PR holders and how best to form the answers.
At present, you should certainly include as part of your reasons - if asked - that you did not return earlier ----- COVID. However you wish to phrase or refer to it.

I'm not saying it's magic or enough but it is a reason and cannot be entirely ignored by government. And if you need to appeal, having mentioned it at examination will provide opportunities.
 

Ponga

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At present, you should certainly include as part of your reasons - if asked - that you did not return earlier ----- COVID. However you wish to phrase or refer to it.

I'm not saying it's magic or enough but it is a reason and cannot be entirely ignored by government. And if you need to appeal, having mentioned it at examination will provide opportunities.
The OP stated that, if reported, they're not interested in an appeal.

Besides, they only mention that it was their business that was impacted by Covid. It might actually hurt an appeal, since the OP could have returned to Canada (even when the border was `closed' to FNs) and could have worked in Canada. They only state that they now want to return to "put down my roots". As always, truthful answers to CBSA (including mention of Covid, if it really did prevent returning to Canada prior to ~ Mar 29th of this year) would be my suggestion.
 

armoured

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The OP stated that, if reported, they're not interested in an appeal.
Having option of bringing up on appeal >> not having option. OP could change their mind in future.

Besides, they only mention that it was their business that was impacted by Covid. It might actually hurt an appeal, since the OP could have returned to Canada (even when the border was `closed' to FNs) and could have worked in Canada. They only state that they now want to return to "put down my roots". As always, truthful answers to CBSA (including mention of Covid, if it really did prevent returning to Canada prior to ~ Mar 29th of this year) would be my suggestion.
Okay, then mention that business was impacted by covid.

But respectfully, you are wrong on two points here:
-there is no, zero, none evidence that 'could have returned earlier to Canada' is an actual negative. It might reduce somewhat the strength of the argument, but it does not turn the point into a negative.

Because you can argue with abundant evidence that the Canadian government was repeatedly warning everyone NOT TO TRAVEL.

Again, I'm not suggesting it is magic and gets everyone out of - fully - a residency obligation issue. But it IS a factor that MUST be taken into consideration (and ultimately in a quasi-judicial context.)

-there is nothing untruthful for virtually anyone in saying "I was concerned about covid." Doesn't require detailed documentation. Again, it might not get you all the way to an H&C decision, but it very well might get you all the way to (a CBSA officer deciding that it's a lot of paperwork and might / will be lost on appeal anyway and therefore easier to just) being waved through.

And while I'm all for being truthful, but let's be adults and recognize that there are some ways of framing things that can never be called out as mistruths. (Esp if the government itself was screaming from the rooftops "you MUST be concerned about covid.)

I'm fairly sure that if you asked any lawyer right now, they'd say it would be bordering on a professional lapse in judgment to not instruct their clients to mention covid (while carefully telling them 'do not utter any actual and outright mistruths', of course).
 

Ponga

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Having option of bringing up on appeal >> not having option. OP could change their mind in future.



Okay, then mention that business was impacted by covid.

But respectfully, you are wrong on two points here:
-there is no, zero, none evidence that 'could have returned earlier to Canada' is an actual negative. It might reduce somewhat the strength of the argument, but it does not turn the point into a negative.

Because you can argue with abundant evidence that the Canadian government was repeatedly warning everyone NOT TO TRAVEL.

Again, I'm not suggesting it is magic and gets everyone out of - fully - a residency obligation issue. But it IS a factor that MUST be taken into consideration (and ultimately in a quasi-judicial context.)

-there is nothing untruthful for virtually anyone in saying "I was concerned about covid." Doesn't require detailed documentation. Again, it might not get you all the way to an H&C decision, but it very well might get you all the way to (a CBSA officer deciding that it's a lot of paperwork and might / will be lost on appeal anyway and therefore easier to just) being waved through.

And while I'm all for being truthful, but let's be adults and recognize that there are some ways of framing things that can never be called out as mistruths. (Esp if the government itself was screaming from the rooftops "you MUST be concerned about covid.)

I'm fairly sure that if you asked any lawyer right now, they'd say it would be bordering on a professional lapse in judgment to not instruct their clients to mention covid (while carefully telling them 'do not utter any actual and outright mistruths', of course).
We can, respectfully, agree to disagree.

Are you saying that even in the peak of the Covid pandemic, when the Canadian/U.S. border was closed to anyone OTHER THAN a citizen or PR/Green Card holder of either country, a citizen or legal resident of either country could NOT enter their country? If so...I would say that is not true. Otherwise a PR of Canada (for example) could have been trapped in the U.S., which would be less than fun, I'm sure.
 

armoured

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Are you saying that even in the peak of the Covid pandemic, when the Canadian/U.S. border was closed to anyone OTHER THAN a citizen or PR/Green Card holder of either country, a citizen or legal resident of either country could NOT enter their country?
No, I'm not saying that. But the test for H&C reasons has never been or required that it was impossible to return. Only that there were reasons that justify some, well, humanitarian and compassionate consideration - leniency if you will.

And I absolutely guarantee that any case that goes to IAD and/or eventually federal court will make the case that when the federal government widely and publicly as good as screams from the rooftops DON'T TRAVEL, that those bodies (judges, etc) that decide these things will give quite a lot of weight to appellants' arguments that "I decided it might not be a good idea to travel because the government said it was a bad idea to travel and that contributed to my non-compliance with the residency obligation."

Note I said "weight." They will consider it in context of other factors (like how long once the government reduced travel restrictions ie stopped shouting don't travel, and how much out of compliance, and whether in/out of compliance before the pandemic), but they will for sure include it as a factor. Obviously those who literally could not travel (due to specific travel bans eg India) will get more consideration for this - but that doesn't mean that others will get none.

And hence, as I said: any PR whose non-compliance overlapped with these periods or was in any way affected should include this as a factor, if it comes up.

Re-phrasing slightly: I think those who are interpreting here with restrictive interpretations like "your covid reason isn't good enough and will look bad (or even be a negative)" are completely and utterly making it up and speculating, mostly based on their own desires.
 

dpenabill

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. . . now want to start a fresh life in Canada and put down my roots.
Your questions have been largely, in a general way, answered, and in particular I concur with the post by @scylla

Some further detail and clarification as to some of the questions may be helpful, especially given those exchanges above which tend to muddy things a bit.

OVERVIEW of PoE Examination Process:

A big part of your query is about what happens during the examination at the Port-of-Entry. I will elaborate more about that in reference to particular questions, but first, what usually happens at the PoE for most PRs is NOT relevant for you, because you are NOT like most PRs, you are a PR who is in breach of the Residency Obligation. You meet the statutory definition for who is "inadmissible." The process for a PR in breach has been described many dozens of times in numerous threads, including a fairly detailed description by me yesterday, in another topic where I stated (slightly edited; full post is here https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/question-about-removal-order.757525/#post-10156636):

When a PR who is in breach of the RO arrives at the PoE, either of the following can happen:
-- many are nonetheless waived into Canada without being referred to Secondary, no significant questioning related to RO compliance, or
-- many are referred to Secondary if and when the PIL (Primary Inspection Line) officer identifies a RO compliance concern

Various factors will influence which of those happens. There is a higher risk of the referral the more obvious it is the PR is in breach of the RO; this can be indicated, for example, by the length of the most recent absence; arriving after a lengthy absence with a PR card near its expiration date; or having an expired PR card, or no PR card; or the PIL officer may see an alert in the PR's records (if something has triggered an alert, like a pending PR card application, a flag following concerns noted during a previous PoE examination, or such).

If there is NO referral to Secondary, the PR can enter Canada and stay and work and so on. Best to wait and stay long enough to get into RO compliance before traveling outside Canada again, and before making any application to IRCC (like a PR card application).
If the PR is referred to Secondary, here again there is significant variability in how things go.
We know that some PRs in similar situations are only asked a few questions, some a lot, some are cautioned or admonished about RO compliance but then waived through without the preparation of a formal "Report" (this is about a 44(1) Report for Inadmissibility for Breach of RO), while others will have the Report prepared against them so they will then be interviewed by another officer who will decide whether to issue a Removal Order. Which of these will happen for a particular PR will depend on that particular PR's circumstances, on that particular day, at that particular PoE.
Even if a Removal Order is issued, the PR is still allowed to enter Canada, and has a right of appeal. The Removal Order is not enforceable for 30 days, and if the PR makes an appeal the Removal Order remains unenforceable for as long as the appeal is pending.
If no Removal Order is issued, just like being waived through without a referral to Secondary, the PR can enter Canada and stay and work and so on. Again, best to wait and stay long enough to get into RO compliance before traveling outside Canada again, and before making any application to IRCC (like a PR card application).

To Appeal or Not to Appeal, If Upon Arrival a Removal Order is Issued a PR in Breach of the RO:

If reported, I would rather renounce/relinquish the permanent residency than go through appeals.
Before diving into more detail, despite stating you have already decided how to answer the to-appeal-or-not-to-appeal (if Reported) question, this is nonetheless a question that deserves a closer look. Even though the exchange above, by others, has muddied this some, the approach by @armoured makes sense despite stating you are not interested in an appeal.

The key decision-point in deciding whether to appeal or not is how much the PR wants to pursue a life IN Canada. Sure, the chances of the appeal succeeding is a big factor for many; not much point pursuing a virtually no-chance case for example -- why delay the inevitable?

A PR remains a PR pending an appeal, and thus can live, and work, and travel to and from Canada, pending the appeal, and can even be issued a one-year PR card if needed if the process takes a long time (and it can) It can be done rather inexpensively and does not have to be a complex matter. So for the PR whose primary priority is to pursue a life in Canada, if allowed, an appeal makes good sense, better sense than relying on a new PR application (with some exceptions: those for whom a spousal sponsored PR application is possible for example).

No lawyer is necessary. Better odds of success if represented by a lawyer, but many PRs go through the appeal process without a lawyer and succeed in saving their PR status. The appeal is not made to a Canadian court, but rather is a quasi-judicial procedure before an administrative body, the IAD, that is the Immigration Appeal Division of the Immigration and Refugee Board (an independent tribunal that is not part of IRCC or CBSA). Filing the paperwork is easy, and after that the procedure can be fairly simple, and in time there will be a hearing scheduled, which is largely an informal affair during which the PR can explain their situation to the IAD panel (which is almost always just a single person acting in a more or less quasi-judicial role, which is akin to what, in other settings, might be referred to as an administrative law judge) and answer questions. There are probably fair odds of success for a PR who fell short of returning to Canada in time to meet the RO during the first five years but who otherwise has significant ties in Canada, and is a PR who is clearly pursuing a life in Canada, whose delay in returning to Canada occurred during the worst global pandemic in more than a century, and who has in fact established long term residence in Canada in the meantime.

Basically it comes down to whether you are only interested in pursuing a life in Canada if there is no doubt you will be allowed to keep PR status. No interest in an appeal makes total sense if so.

But you can come, see how it goes at the PoE, and if not Reported, stay. Otherwise, if Reported, you may be given an opportunity then and there to renounce status, which would make the termination of PR status effective as of that day, making you a FN (a Foreign National and thus no longer a Canadian). OR, you could simply enter Canada with the understanding that, assuming you do not make an appeal, the Removal Order takes effect in thirty days, after which you would be a FN. Thus, absent an application for alternative status to stay in Canada, you will be required to leave.

For most PRs in breach but still within their first five years, in breach by less than a year, going the latter way makes a lot of sense, taking some time to evaluate just how the process went (in particular the exchange with the Minister's Delegate who considers the H&C case and is the one who issues the Removal Order), maybe make the appeal just to have more time to evaluate the situation and the time to consult with an immigration lawyer, before deciding definitively whether to follow through with the appeal or to not delay moving on with life outside Canada.

Further Observations in Regards to Particular Questions:

Starting here:

3. What questions are usually asked by CBSA to PR holders and how best to form the answers?

The vast majority of PRs are asked just a few questions, sufficient for the PIL (Primary Inspection Line) officer to verify the Canadian's identity and status (PRs are "Canadians," as in they are NOT Foreign Nationals), and to otherwise determine if there is any reason to further screen the traveler, which for Canadians (again, including PRs) is mostly about customs' not immigration. After all, for most PRs returning to Canada, usually there are no outstanding reasons for CBSA to have any concerns about them.

The question you probably intended to ask is more specific: what sort of questions might be expected for a PR returning to Canada when the PR is NOT in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation? and that brings up:

4. What and when is the secondary inspection, what questions are asked and how to prepare for those answers?

To be continued . . .
 
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dpenabill

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As noted, the more pertinent question, about questioning at the Port-of-Entry, is: what sort of questions might be expected for a PR returning to Canada when the PR is NOT in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation? and again that brings up:
4. What and when is the secondary inspection, what questions are asked and how to prepare for those answers.
4. What and when is the secondary inspection, what questions are asked and how to prepare for those answers?

Note: for returning PRs, a referral to "Secondary" is usually, mostly, about customs. Not immigration. Obviously, your questions are oriented, rather, to questions about RO compliance, an immigration matter, given the fact you are a PR in RO breach.

"Secondary" is exactly what the term signifies: a second level of screening, in the process of conducting a PoE examination, for a traveler applying for authorization to actually enter Canada. We tend to gloss over the fact that arriving at a PoE to enter Canada constitutes an "application" for authorization to make an in fact entry into the country. For returning Canadians, and likewise many FNs (Foreign Nationals) with documentation clearly showing their legal status, under the immigration law, authorizing travel and entry into Canada, this is an almost casual and relatively minimal examination conducted at the PIL. If in the PIL inspection/examination, however, any reason for additional screening is identified, the traveler will be referred to "Secondary," for a second level of screening.

Since it appears you were last in Canada more than three years ago, that is you will be arriving at the PoE after an absence of more than three years, it is apparent on the face of things that you are likely in breach of the PR RO. This alone significantly elevates the risk that instead of being given a pass at the PIL ("waived" into Canada) you will be referred to Secondary for further screening.

That said, there have been scores of anecdotal reports from PRs who similarly were in RO breach when they returned to Canada during the last year or so, who were nonetheless waived through at the PIL. It seems obvious that Covid has played a big role in this. Without getting sidetracked in speculating about the way consideration is given relative to how PRs abroad were affected, or the weight it carries, the virtually universal impact of Covid on international travel has undoubtedly expanded the scope of leniency toward RO enforcement in PoE examinations. Even before Covid, however, a PR with a valid PR card returning to Canada more than a year prior to the fifth year anniversary of the date they landed (when they became a PR) had fairly good if not quite good odds of being waived through with NO referral to Secondary to question their RO compliance. Thus, the sooner you come, the better your odds, but if you at least arrive here a year and several months before the fifth year anniversary of your landing date, there should still be a good chance, perhaps a rather good chance, you will not be asked detailed questions about RO compliance or the reasons why you did not come sooner.

If asked, just tell your story, YOUR story, perhaps something like well I was trying to get a career started, and there was Covid, so I pursued establishing my own business, got involved in a relationship, and the time went by faster than I expected, so I put off getting here to settle and make my life in Canada. Being simple, honest, brief, not much more than I want to make my life in Canada but doing that got delayed, put off, but now here I am ready to settle down here. More specificity would be prudent in an appeal, but for purposes of the PoE examination, that's the gist of it, keeping it simple (different scenario for PRs with very particular H&C reasons explaining the delay), no need to elaborate much if at all.

In regards to the latter, I agree with @armoured, that anyone and virtually everyone should be able to honestly say that during the pandemic there was little point in even considering trying to return to Canada, given Covid and the situation it was causing. And frankly, while I cannot say for sure, my sense is this is a general understanding underlying the approach of CBSA officers in examining returning PRs. After all, even when travel was not entirely precluded, the risks associated with Covid posed very significant hurdles to just traveling let alone trying to move and settle in another country.

Probably goes without saying, but just saying "and, well, there was Covid," should say plenty for that to be a considerable factor, again without getting sidetracked into speculating about the way Covid factors into this, or the weight given to it, in particular situations for specific individuals (noting, after all, there are plenty of PRs in breach whose circumstances more or less broadcast that Covid was not a significant factor in their case, such as those who were in breach or close to being in breach before the pandemic even began).

Practical Aspects of Referral to Secondary:

The referral to Secondary does NOT always occur in a way that is obvious to the traveler.

Knowledgeable travelers more familiar with the procedures will recognize when it is this or that particular procedure, but for many, many PRs what they know about the actual procedures they encountered depends largely on the outcome. Hence the general description of the process often goes like this:
When you go to secondary inspection, they will ask you a lot of questions and will let you in the country irrespective if you are a PR. However, if they go ahead with paperwork to revoke your PR, you will get papers right there and will have a right to appeal within 30 days.
It is not as if the traveler is explicitly informed which procedure is being conducted . . . even if in Secondary that officer determines the PR is in breach of the RO and prepares a 44(1) Report, and the PR is then asked questions by another officer, which is a very formal procedure from the perspective of CBSA and immigration law, the anecdotal reporting suggests that many times the traveler/PR is not made aware of the formalities, not aware that the second officer in Secondary is actually a "Minister's Delegate" and is conducting a formal review of a 44(1) Report of Inadmissibility for breach of RO.

It is not as if the PIL officer says "I am a PIL officer and . . . "

It is not as if the officer conducting the examination in Secondary says "I am conducting a Secondary examination."

Note, it is not uncommon for more than one officer to be involved at any given stage of a PoE examination, and it probably is uncommon for any of them to specifically announce just what their status is or what type of examination they are conducting.

Moreover, it appears the officer acting as a Minister's Delegate (if and when it gets to that stage), likewise does not explain to the PR/traveler that they are a "Minister's Delegate," or that they are conducting a review, or that it is a review of a 44(1) Report for Inadmissibility. They ask questions. They give the PR an opportunity to answer questions and to explain the reasons they did not return to Canada sooner, which is the PR's opportunity to explain any H&C considerations.

I do not know if it is always the case, but it appears that often, if not typically, when no Removal Order is issued, not only will the PR not be given any paperwork, the PR may proceed into Canada without even knowing there was a formal Report prepared. If a Removal Order is issued, the PR gets the "paperwork," but otherwise it appears a PR is just told, OK, you can go.


Is it a good idea to prepare a cover letter to show to the officer?

The exercise of preparing a "cover letter" may help you organize your thoughts and be better prepared to explain your story, but that would not be something to present to an officer in the PoE. For a PR with specific H&C reasons, more extensive and detailed preparation is a good idea, including compiling documents supporting the H&C case (like medical letters or a physician's letter if the reason for a delayed return to Canada was due to a medical condition, either personal or say a parent). It appears your story is the common, simple one of a new PR whose move to settle in Canada took longer than three years, so you tell your story; keep it simple, honest, and brief.

Is it worth retaining an IRCC lawyer for this?

Save that for an appeal, if necessary, or at least a consultation to consider whether to make an appeal. Again, your story is a simple one, a common one, and the sooner you get here the better your odds of being "waived" through without being Reported (whether by the PIL or after some questioning or a lot of questioning). A lawyer is not likely to help much, in terms of your preparation, and travelers are not entitled to the assistance of a lawyer during a PoE examination.
 
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mequitnever

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Thank you everyone for the detailed and frank advice @dpenabill , @armoured , @Ponga , @scylla and @YVR123

I understand that, as I am in beach of RO, I cannot apply spousal sponsorship for the next 730 days (+30 days for a good buffer time) until I am in compliance with RO.

However, can the spouse who lives in India apply for visitor visa? Would visitor visa application by spouse trigger RO check on me?

Also is it a good idea to apply and receive a new permanent resident card before making spousal application (after RO compliance is met).

Your input would be much appreciated!

Love,
Mequitnever
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
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Toronto
Category........
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Buffalo
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Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
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AOR Received.
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28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Thank you everyone for the detailed and frank advice @dpenabill , @armoured , @Ponga , @scylla and @YVR123

I understand that, as I am in beach of RO, I cannot apply spousal sponsorship for the next 730 days (+30 days for a good buffer time) until I am in compliance with RO.

However, can the spouse who lives in India apply for visitor visa? Would visitor visa application by spouse trigger RO check on me?

Also is it a good idea to apply and receive a new permanent resident card before making spousal application (after RO compliance is met).

Your input would be much appreciated!

Love,
Mequitnever
Your spouse can apply for a TRV. This will not trigger an RO check.

Note that approvals for TRVs for individuals with spouses who are Canadian is around 50/50. To have the best chance, your spouse wants to show strong ties to their home country such as employment, property ownership and assets.
 
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