Parents Sponsorship - Stop Immigration Lottery

[4parents]

I am merely stating that we should STOP TALKING ABOUT COSTS.

The PGP program is humanitarian. The lottery system while not perfect is a way to allocate PGP spots randomly to applicants regardless of race, religion, language or socioeconomic status.

There was a lot of discussion dedicated to the types of costs, why some LICO level exists, etc. While an interesting discussion, I come to more and more understanding that govt wants to make as little changes as possible at a time, and I don't think they will be changing sponsor eligibility requirements any time soon - it's only the 5th year (2014-2018) since the program reopened after the initial reform. On the govt scale it's a very short period of time.

I think we are all more or less aligned on the goal - make the process more fair (even though we may have some different views on what that means), and if we can come up with a statement of recommendation / petition, they may take a note of it.

 

[nayr69sg]

Nice to see you 4parents.

I am not confident that petitions will do anything. I have been signing many petitions but nothing ever happens.

Trudeau is a smart politician and a very good actor.

 

[4parents]

I've signed many as well - but the way I see them happen is somewhat disorganized.
That's why the website and this thread are created, to get input from many people, come up with something sensible, and then spread the message.
Once the e-petition is created, it has 120 days to collect over 500 signatures to be presented in the House of Commons.
Considering the "95000" applicants in the previous year, if we get 1k-5k signatures with a specific suggestion, I am sure they will address it in some way. If we get $10k signatures, I'm sure they adjust the system in the direction we require.

Again, the way democracy works, sort of: the society is governed by the rules it wants to be governed. So if a lot of people say "we should change something in this direction", the rules get adjusted.

 

[nayr69sg]

As long as Trudeau and the left Liberals are in power the order of the day is equality rights compassion sympathy feel good talk.

You are better off appealing individual cases based on sad stories and plights.

Heck even terrorists who joined Isis should be sympathized with and welcomed back to Canada to be rehabilitated. Talk about costs....

The lottery system is here to stay.

 

[steaky]

When parents arrive on super-visa, the only thing they can do is basically stay at home, and if the child has kids - stay with kids. They cannot study and cannot work. Many people will die of boredom if they are not occupied by something meaningful. Depending on parents age the insurance may cost as low as $1500 per year, so in some cases it's quite affordable even for not-rich families.
Applying for study permit and work permit is super hard for them because of the age and often poor English, but many, if they had PR, would start their own small business to serve their own community.
For the above reasons long stays on super-visa is not an option for many, even if parents are relatively young and can afford the insurance fee for a few years.

But they can also sightseeing, visiting and gathering with friends, see doctors and play outdoor sports (such as golfing). Why would they die from boredom? Besides, they can still study if the program is less than 6 months.

Edit: If they are rich, why would they even need to start a small business in Canada?

 

[steaky]

Just in response to the other poster. Personally I couldn't care less if parents or any other newly immigrants buy homes here or not, just saying there are usually 2 views to any issue.

True

 

[steaky]

Agree, parents are not exactly foreigners. But just to note, from the experience I see, once parents arrive (selling property in own country), they give money to the kids and kids buy property in their own name - this way the family avoids the transfer tax, but since the cost is same either way, just on the next transfer the family will owe more taxes, so eventually it does not matter, govt will always get their cut.


Prices going up is a *good* thing for the economy - when done at moderate levels. But look at Toronto, there are so many professionals who want to live downtown, rent prices are skyrocketing. Yet, more skilled workers is a good thing for the economy.

Parents might do the same selling of their properties at home before they arrive and give money to their kids/grandkids to buy property in their own name.

 

[nayr69sg]

Parents might do the same selling of their properties at home before they arrive and give money to their kids/grandkids to buy property in their own name.

My parents are planning to sell their home before they arrive in Canada (if they get the PGP PR).

 

[Rob_TO]

I've signed many as well - but the way I see them happen is somewhat disorganized.
That's why the website and this thread are created, to get input from many people, come up with something sensible, and then spread the message.
Once the e-petition is created, it has 120 days to collect over 500 signatures to be presented in the House of Commons.
Considering the "95000" applicants in the previous year, if we get 1k-5k signatures with a specific suggestion, I am sure they will address it in some way. If we get $10k signatures, I'm sure they adjust the system in the direction we require.

Again, the way democracy works, sort of: the society is governed by the rules it wants to be governed. So if a lot of people say "we should change something in this direction", the rules get adjusted.

Don't kid yourself, in general online petitions are pretty useless. You could probably find 500 people that would sign a petition wanting to give pets the right to vote.

Any petition has to align with the views already in place by the government. Even if your petition gets 10K signatures and it's officially responded to or read in parliament, some politician will just say they will take it under consideration or something and nothing will happen. There are hundreds of these such petitions launched every month. And the problem with the parents program is the perception by many Canadians that's it's a drain on healthcare, so many MPs will not publicly endorse radical changes to it or give lots of vocal support for it.

In the UK they have a similar process, but I think they need something like 100,000 signatures to ensure the petition is actually discussed and debated by the MPs and not just casually dismissed.

If you want any petition to be taken seriously you need it to have a ton of signatures (I would guess at least 20K plus), be sponsored by an MP, and have national recognition via a news outlet.

 

[nayr69sg]

Politics. It all a show.

Anyway if you really want to do something about it you can start working on the ground, be activist join politics etc

Otherwise majority wins.

Left now it is the Liberals and socialists in power. Feel good, sunny ways, pretty image with absolutely no substance is the fashion at the moment.

You got to play the game according to what
Rules the winners have setup now.

 

[nayr69sg]

One strategy might be to go find all the sad stories. How parents waited and never won the lottery and died or suffered away from their loved ones.

Something that tugs at hearts not minds.

Something that appeals to the nobler self.

 

[4parents]

if they get the PGP PR

That's it. The key word in this sentence is "IF".
With the lottery now it takes ON AVERAGE 15 years to be selected and process, for some will be shorter, for some longer, for some never.
When done on FIFO basis it was only ~7 years, and everyone was processed, and everyone could plan their lives.
How about a slogan "Parents lives matter"?
The only way to change the system is to voice your dissatisfaction, and work with the gov to make it better.
As I keep reading this thread, I truly don't understand why some people behave as if they are powerless and just accept the system "as is", and hence are not willing to fight.

 

[steaky]

That's it. The key word in this sentence is "IF".
With the lottery now it takes ON AVERAGE 15 years to be selected and process, for some will be shorter, for some longer, for some never.
When done on FIFO basis it was only ~7 years, and everyone was processed, and everyone could plan their lives.
How about a slogan "Parents lives matter"?
The only way to change the system is to voice your dissatisfaction, and work with the gov to make it better.
As I keep reading this thread, I truly don't understand why some people behave as if they are powerless and just accept the system "as is", and hence are not willing to fight.

I would rather vote for another political party in the next federal election instead.

 

[nayr69sg]

I would rather vote for another political party in the next federal election instead.

Yes. Agree wholeheartedly

That is what democracy is about. Not this petition stuff.

4parents did you vote Liberal?

I am a CPC supporter.

 

[Rob_TO]

That's it. The key word in this sentence is "IF".
With the lottery now it takes ON AVERAGE 15 years to be selected and process, for some will be shorter, for some longer, for some never.
When done on FIFO basis it was only ~7 years, and everyone was processed, and everyone could plan their lives.
How about a slogan "Parents lives matter"?
The only way to change the system is to voice your dissatisfaction, and work with the gov to make it better.
As I keep reading this thread, I truly don't understand why some people behave as if they are powerless and just accept the system "as is", and hence are not willing to fight.

Ya FIFO was 7 years back then, and growing. CIC had projected at that time the backlog would grow to 15+ years by this time if the old process continued, increasing further each year.

Again the reason the government doesn't put a priority on parents, is that the majority of Canadians don't care and actually prefer more restrictions on the program. The voices like you and others that want everyone to be able sponsor their parents, are a tiny minority in Canada.

I would rather vote for another political party in the next federal election instead.

Well the Conservatives would probably slash the cap back to 5,000 like they originally did in 2014. Of the 2 major parties, the current Liberals are actually more generous and open to the program.

Other parties like the NDP or Green I have no idea on their parents program views are. To vote for a party solely on this reason though doesn't seem very smart since I doubt any party would actually bring it up during a campaign.