Parent and grandparent sponsorship

[torontosm]

Where our (PR) taxes go then? Some people are taxed thousand of dollars that they never use for themselves? Why not to mention those people who are Canadians and prefer living at somebody's expense and the refugees?
I do understand this attitude when two parents are alive and they have more kids living with them in their country of origin who can look after them and support them - but what to do when you have a single parent living thousands of mile away without care and support?
There should always be some exceptions.

PR is a privilege, not a right. And, it was a privilege that is awarded to a specific person based upon an assessment of that person's ability to contribute to Canada. Why should we, as taxpayers, have to fund benefits for non-contributing members of that person's family? I can understand making an exception for dependents (i.e., children and spouse), but not for the parents.

As a single parent, I understand that it is difficult, but it is more fair for that person to move out of Canada than to ask the rest of us to pay for benefits for that person's parents. The Supervisa was created to ensure that families can be reunited for extended periods of time, and I think that the entire parent sponsorship should be eliminated now.

 

[Rob_TO]

If you asking for my personal opinion - yes, I would take the complete responsibilities for my parent staying with me in Canada - including all possible and impossible expenses.

Then there is a perfectly viable option that exists today for you - the Supervisa.

The right of citizenship does not give anyone any right to abuse the system. Canada grands citizenship to the thousands of people yearly - and non-Canadians become Canadians to be able to abuse the system.

Citizens/PRs here can use our social services or health care as they see fit. When I say people abuse the system, I mean they do it legally but to others it would seem like abuse. It is up to the government to decide where people try to use the system illegally, and that is when they should step in, which they often do.

Not all people have a right of choice. As for entire family - just look into the situation when one comes to Canada on a Skilled worker program for example and in a few years time entire family of 10 is here to join him. And sure then there's no place for just one person. Is that fair? I guess it depends...

As far as I know, the skilled worker program does NOT allow ones parents/grandparents to also move to Canada with them as PRs. This would still only be reserved for spouses and dependents. So i'm not sure what you're getting at claiming 10 people can become PRs here along with a single skilled worker.

 

[zardoz]

Everyone that immigrates to Canada via either the work or family PR class, makes a conscious decision to leave behind their home country and family that is not eligible to immigrate with them. There is no human right that says a new immigrant's entire family is entitled to also come to Canada. Everyone knows the rules in place before they decide to come here.

Agreed. I, for one, am leaving everyone in my family behind. Parents, siblings, nephews, nieces and my own children. It's the price that I'm paying to be with my wife. We all have to make a choice and then deal with the consequences.

 

[ZIDYAY]

It is a controversial subject to those who want to bring their parents/grandparents over here. It is no controversial to those that don't bring their parents over.

As far as I'm concerned parents/grandparents are nothing but babysitters for the sponsors kids for short term. The kids will become teenagers and thus babysitting would no longer be required. What then, send the parents/grandparent back because their services no longer required? Not going to happen. Sponsored Parents/grandparents are a drain on Canada's social resources since they have never contributed to Canada's taxes all their lives. Canada social network depends on workers' tax contributions. Right now our social programs are in sire strait since there are fewer workers now compared to those who are retiring. Honestly we really don't need parents/grandparents to be sponsored. If they are needed for at home baby sitting services, the super visa is perfect for that.

Screech339

In principle I would agree. Parents/Grandparents will naturally be using more of Canada's health care resources, compared to the average Canadian. So logically it's not a sustainable model to allow all these people to use our health care system that have not paid a penny into the tax system that funds it.

I think the current system actually works well, in which Supervisas can be issued relatively quickly, but the parents/grandparents are responsible for their own health related costs. Actual PRs in this sense I think are justified in setting caps on the maximum issued per year.

Thanks to all who posted their comments on my post.

While I value every bit of new information tossed into to this conversation, I can't but feel bad on the clear bias and seeming cruelty against parents and grandparents expressed by a couple of you. It is obvious that many don't like parents to come because they do not contribute to the tax pool yet they draw benefits. This conclusion I hope it is not the spirit of the Canadian immigration policy. Otherwise, it puts human beings to the level of commodity- you have not proven any use, you have no apparent value. Let it come that all of you become parent and grow old. You will feel how it is to be treated with very much diminished value and respect.

My son is our only child. He and his wife of three years have no child yet. My son has stable job getting pay around CAD75K per annum. As sponsor, he will have no trouble meeting the financial hurdle nor we see difficulty getting the supervisa. My concern is the low priority and consequently almost decade long waiting for parents. I understand that the visa allocation most likely is so few but the applications have gone too many. If the rationale is to reduce number of those taking advantage of government assistance from new elderly immigrants, the criteria should therefore include educational and employment qualifications of the parent. In this manner, they will not be immediate drain to government resources and their admittance will be made much faster.

 

[zardoz]

In fact, if you think about it from a "compassion" viewpoint, those that can support themselves through education and employment should be the ones excluded from being offered the chance to become permanent residents. They are capable of sustaining an income in their home country that would allow the use of the supervisa system on an extended basis.

The ones that "need" the ability to become PR are those than cannot sustain themselves and the requirements of a supervisa, such as the frail old lady from the slums of some forgotten part of the "third world".

The whole concept of the Parent/Grandparent sponsorship is family reunification, not an alternative economic migration path. What justification can there be for saying that an unemployable old lady is less deserving of reunification than a 40 year old neuroscientist with more letters after his name than you can count?

(Just in case there is any confusion, this is me playing Devil's Advocate).

 

[Rob_TO]

It is obvious that many don't like parents to come because they do not contribute to the tax pool yet they draw benefits. This conclusion I hope it is not the spirit of the Canadian immigration policy. Otherwise, it puts human beings to the level of commodity- you have not proven any use, you have no apparent value. Let it come that all of you become parent and grow old. You will feel how it is to be treated with very much diminished value and respect.

Sorry but this is the very definition or spirit of not only the Canadian immigration policy, and any immigration policy of any country in the world. There has to be lines drawn somewhere. Else why stop at parents/grandparents... if no person should be treated as commodity, then why not allow PR apps for all brothers and sisters no matter their age? How about aunts and uncles? Cousins, nephews, nieces? 2nd and 3rd cousins? If Canada is to treat all family equally and open their arms to them, then it doesn't make sense to say parents/grandparents are more or less important or worthy to immigrate here.

My concern is the low priority and consequently almost decade long waiting for parents.

As you noted yourself, the Supervisa option is a very viable one and the wait is measured in months, not years.

the criteria should therefore include educational and employment qualifications of the parent. In this manner, they will not be immediate drain to government resources and their admittance will be made much faster.

I completely agree with this. Parents that are younger, more skilled and still of working age, that have financial resources of their own, or that have fewer health issues... should be given priority and quicker processing. Of course this is a more economic class of PR versus family class.

So like it or not, immigration involves rules and criteria, caps and wait times. You have to turn people into numbers at some point in the process, there is no way around this.

 

[Alurra71]

..snip..... Let it come that all of you become parent and grow old. You will feel how it is to be treated with very much diminished value and respect.

I am a parent as well as a grandparent. I am treated how I treat others. I am capable of taking care of myself and I KNEW when I came to Canada, that I would be leaving my life, my family, my friends and all of those things behind when I did so. I do not regret that I came here and I do not 'mourn' that my family can not come to me. I can go to them whenever I choose, and they can, as well, come visit me. Why should someone with more money be treated differently to someone who doesn't have as much money? Isn't that your own version of bias coming out? You feel someone with more money or more education is more deserving than someone else.

If someone wishes to immigrate to Canada, then by all means, fill out the paperwork and if approved, come to Canada. If you are relying on your childs education and income to get you into Canada then perhaps you should rethink your entire strategy. You must have value in your own country. You have raised a child and he has left his country for another. If he has the kind of funds that you say, then why is it he cannot come to 'visit' with his parents a couple of times a year. Why is it that his parents should be allowed to come to Canada as immigrants instead of visitors? If you can answer those questions, then you may have your answer why you think that some of us have 'biased' opinions. Your childs education and history has no bearing on whether his parents are allowed to follow him to another country. You can not expect an entire country to look after each and every immigrants family and parents. If they just allow parents to follow suit, where do they draw the line, I have an aunt and an uncle that I am close with, several cousins and a couple nieces and nephews as well. Should they also be allowed based on the premises that you state?

 

[screech339]

First of all, people who want to marry a Canadian/Canadian PR made a conscious choice in knowing that they are starting a new family of their own in a new country. If having a family available to raise your children is an right for those who believe it is a right, they should have married local. They have to be naïve to think that they have this inalienable rights to bring their parents/grandparents over. You made a choice to move to Canada. If you really want your family around, you can try to convince your Canadian/PR partner to stay in your home country and raise a family there. Might work on a Canadian but not a PR as he/she will lose the PR status if stayed outside Canada too long. But in actual fact, you want your children raised in Canada. That is why you moved to Canada, isn't it?

Even my wife admitted to me that the only reason she would want her parents with her in Canada is to get them on Canada Health Care along with the benefit that she got her parents with her to help her raise the children (babysitters). She knows that they will not be able to work at all due to their age and not speak the English language to even be employable. Ideally she would like them to stay here long enough to get Canadian citizenship so that they can return to her home country and when they get a serious illness, they can come back to Canada for treatment. Don't you see how wrong and unfair that is.

I am not being bias against parents/grandparents. I am stating the obvious as to why immigrants want to bring their parents/grandparents over. If people wants to bring their parents/grandparents over, by all means go ahead, but expect to pay all the medical bills. Are you prepared to take out a mortgage to pay for your parents/grandparents future regular cancer treatments and medications? If you are not willing to do that, then you can't afford to bring them over.

 

[zardoz]

It's interesting to note that in the UK, you can only sponsor adult "dependants" if they need long term care that is not available in their home country. None of this "popping over to babysit the kids" stuff. Certainly no economic migration either. http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/partners-families/citizens-settled/elderly-dependent/

 

[scylla]

If the rationale is to reduce number of those taking advantage of government assistance from new elderly immigrants, the criteria should therefore include educational and employment qualifications of the parent. In this manner, they will not be immediate drain to government resources and their admittance will be made much faster.

Interesting debate...

In the end, the parent / grandparent class is NOT an economic immigration class. It's a family immigration class for sponsoring family members who fit this criteria - consequetly there's no selective selection based on educational or employment qualifications. And I think it should stay this way. I don't think someone's parent should have to wait two or three times longer than another person's parent just because they don't have a certain level of education. That's not in the spirit of the system and feels very discriminatory. There are already discrepancies in processing times based on geographic location. Let's not make it worse by further discriminating based on education and profession. If someone wants to be selected based on education and profession - that's what the economic clsses are for.

Just my two cents.

 

[Suin]

Why should we, as taxpayers, have to fund benefits for non-contributing members of that person's family?

Why "we"? The parents have their children who sponsored them and signed the undertaking for 10 years. And those children who sponsored them are paying taxes too. Imagine how much tax should be paid by the person with the required income they have to mainain that is usually no less than 50K or even more?
Also the regular health care benefits, as it's well-known, do not cover everything.

 

[Suin]

Then there is a perfectly viable option that exists today for you - the Supervisa.

Let's not to go personal.

As far as I know, the skilled worker program does NOT allow ones parents/grandparents to also move to Canada with them as PRs. This would still only be reserved for spouses and dependents. So i'm not sure what you're getting at claiming 10 people can become PRs here along with a single skilled worker.

After a year of being PR and being able to proof required income the person who arrived to Canada on FSW program could file sponsorship for their parents and dependends without any problem and depending on the family size they could get as many people as were able to be found eligible to apply.

 

[Rob_TO]

Let's not to go personal.

It's not personal, it's stating a fact. You said you'd be happy to be responsible for all health care related costs for parents, so i'm saying there is already a quick and easy way to get parents to Canada in place today - the supervisa.

After a year of being PR and being able to proof required income the person who arrived to Canada on FSW program could file sponsorship for their parents and dependends without any problem and depending on the family size they could get as many people as were able to be found eligible to apply.

So are you saying that PRs in Canada that are here as skilled worker, should have less rights than PRs here from family class?? A PR is a PR. All PRs should follow the same rules, and be allowed to sponsor the same family members whether that is parents or dependents.

I still don't understand what you mean by only skilled worker class PRs being able to sponsor 10 people over. Family class could do the very same thing.

 

[screech339]

I be curious as to how quickly the parent/grandparent sponsorship reaches the 5000 yearly cap when it opens in the new year. Now compare that to how many want their parents on supervisa. A lot of them probably doesn't want the parents on supervisa since it would require them to support their medical cost. I wouldn't be surprised if it reached the cap in the first month alone. Which goes to show that they want their parents/grandparents on Canada health care so badly.

Screech339

 

[scylla]

After a year of being PR and being able to proof required income the person who arrived to Canada on FSW program could file sponsorship for their parents and dependends without any problem and depending on the family size they could get as many people as were able to be found eligible to apply.

Starting in 2014, sponsors will have to prove they have met LICO for three years to qualify as sponsors (not just one year). So unless the FSW immigrant worked in Canada for two years before becoming a PR, they'll be looking at three years after they land (and get a job) before they can sponsor parents/grandparents.