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Outside Canada - Oath of Citizenship

ssy81

Star Member
Dec 15, 2009
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8
Category........
Visa Office......
Bucharest
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1111
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
27-08-2014
Nomination.....
28-02-2015
AOR Received.
12-12-2014
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29-02-2016 / Rcvd 26-03-2016
Med's Done....
18-03-2016
Interview........
21-06-2016
Passport Req..
26-09-2016
VISA ISSUED...
17-10-2016
LANDED..........
Good willing
Update: I received the Canadian citizenship certificates for my children and myself in my country's Canadian consulate yesterday. We swore the oath outside Canada on March 31, so it took considerably shorter time than expected (CIC advised 6 months for delivering the certificates abroad).
Next month we'll apply for the passports, again from here. The official advised passport issuing abroad takes 26 working days PS I'm svet81 apparently I have two accounts in this forum :)
 

Dalboy1980

Hero Member
Jan 21, 2016
371
196
Update: I received the Canadian citizenship certificates for my children and myself in my country's Canadian consulate yesterday. We swore the oath outside Canada on March 31, so it took considerably shorter time than expected (CIC advised 6 months for delivering the certificates abroad).
Next month we'll apply for the passports, again from here. The official advised passport issuing abroad takes 26 working days PS I'm svet81 apparently I have two accounts in this forum :)
Hi Svet...first of all it's great news that your certs have arrived, so I'm guessing that was 26 days where you are based or was that in general outside of Canada?

I ask because it's been 22 days since they physically received my new passport application at the London High Commission....when I contacted them I was told not to contact the office until at least 8 weeks had passed so I assume 40 working days.
 

DODGE1981

Star Member
Sep 2, 2020
50
2
1. Sorry I was maybe unclear, no. I have done just one test. But they rescheduled my oath, it took exactly 3 months to get new invitation. I was scared it takes months or up to year, like many here said it would take.
2. I'm not able to travel at the moment. I have small child, I will start new job next Monday and just so much going on that I can't travel for for one day to go Canada and come back.
They don't allow to take oath while abroad. Iw ont even ask because I will be able to travel back later this year.
Hi Excuse me , there is a chance to reschedule the Oath time according to IRCC not from the applicant as i understand from you
 

MissJustice

Star Member
Feb 21, 2017
167
58
BC
Category........
PNP
App. Filed.......
16-05-2017
Nomination.....
05-2017
AOR Received.
08-2017
Med's Request
01-04-2018
Med's Done....
01-05-2018
Passport Req..
05-02-2019
I have just received an invitation to a virtual Oath ceremony even though the Immigration knows that I live in the States. They requested I-94 entries from me about a month ago, the last one showing me entering US a little over a year ago. I immediately assumed that they allow me to take the oath from outside Canada since others were asked to show a proof of return and I didnt. But then kept on reading and sadly I have to email them to remind that I am abroad and cant travel outside of the country due to not having a travel permit. Wish me luck guys.
 

yuz2022

Full Member
May 12, 2022
23
3
I have just received an invitation to a virtual Oath ceremony even though the Immigration knows that I live in the States. They requested I-94 entries from me about a month ago, the last one showing me entering US a little over a year ago. I immediately assumed that they allow me to take the oath from outside Canada since others were asked to show a proof of return and I didnt. But then kept on reading and sadly I have to email them to remind that I am abroad and cant travel outside of the country due to not having a travel permit. Wish me luck guys.
any update?
 

Ana.me

Star Member
Jan 19, 2020
107
31
Update: I received the Canadian citizenship certificates for my children and myself in my country's Canadian consulate yesterday. We swore the oath outside Canada on March 31, so it took considerably shorter time than expected (CIC advised 6 months for delivering the certificates abroad).
Next month we'll apply for the passports, again from here. The official advised passport issuing abroad takes 26 working days PS I'm svet81 apparently I have two accounts in this forum :)
They allowed you to take the Oath outside Canada?
As, we cancelled all of our summer holiday plans, to not miss the Oath date -which we are still waiting-
 

saou17

Hero Member
Oct 18, 2021
248
194
App. Filed.......
28-10-2021
AOR Received.
21-01-2022
They allowed you to take the Oath outside Canada?
As, we cancelled all of our summer holiday plans, to not miss the Oath date -which we are still waiting-
I actually don't believe these info. A lot of trolls on these forums trying to spread misinformation. There are no exceptions to IRCCs policies and if the oath was allowed abroad, this would have been open to everyone!! Don't believe whatever you read here.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
We swore the oath outside Canada on March 31
They allowed you to take the Oath outside Canada?
As, we cancelled all of our summer holiday plans, to not miss the Oath date -which we are still waiting-
There are RARE, and I do mean RARE reports of adult grant citizenship applicants allowed to take the oath outside Canada. Most of the very few (very few) verified or otherwise credible reports have been in extremely specialized cases. A couple (and I mean literally just two, but maybe three) involved individuals in Ukraine.

Current law REQUIRES adult grant citizenship candidates take the oath IN Canada. The Minister can allow or approve an exception. There is no indication this is an authority the Minister delegates to another, and without extensive research to indicate otherwise, it appears this is NOT an authority that can be delegated.

A year and more ago there were claims made in this forum that the government (this would require more than just IRCC) might be moving toward allowing the oath outside Canada comparable to how IRCC allows taking the test while outside Canada. More than a year has passed since those claims were made, referencing NO reliable sources, and there has been no further indication that will happen.

To be clear, giving the test online to applicants outside Canada versus administering the oath outside Canada are very different: there is NO authority in the statutes or regulations which supports suspending processing applications based on an applicant being outside Canada, so there is no basis for denying or prohibiting applicants from taking an online test while outside Canada. Basically, if IRCC opened testing to online, they had to open to applicants regardless of their location.

In contrast, the regulations governing the oath required for adult grants of citizenship (that is, those under section (5(1) in the Citizenship Act) prescribe that the oath must be taken before a Citizenship Judge, at a citizenship ceremony, IN Canada. This is provided by Citizenship Regulations 19 and 24 seen here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-93-246/page-2.html#h-952206

As noted, EXCEPTION is allowed, which is prescribed by Regulation 22. On its face it appears to require the Minister to make this authorization personally and personally sign it.


I actually don't believe these info. A lot of trolls on these forums trying to spread misinformation. There are no exceptions to IRCCs policies and if the oath was allowed abroad, this would have been open to everyone!! Don't believe whatever you read here.
Without characterizing their presence and activities here (allowing some, too many, are probably as you label), in regards to the prospect of taking the oath outside Canada there has been a fair amount of misleading commentary, some of which is outright misinformation, more of which is just lacking reliability.

As I noted, there have been some (a very few) verified reports, including a couple high profile cases published in mainstream media, and otherwise credible reports, illustrating that the exception allowed in Regulation 22 has been exercised and individuals have been allowed to take the oath abroad.

It warrants noting that there are lots and lots of "exceptions to IRCCs policies" of various sorts in various situations. The governing law allows for exceptions in numerous circumstances.

To be clear, allowing the oath be taken by an individual outside Canada is not really an exception to IRCC policy, but an exception to the law itself, as prescribed by the applicable regulations.

Which brings up the fact that not all exceptions are created equal. There is a huge difference between an exception to "policy," which generally is more broadly allowed and more common, versus exceptions to governing law, which requires the exception itself be provided by law. IRCC has broad authority to adopt "policy" and that includes broad authority to change policy, generally, or in particular instances, including allowing "exceptions," regarding which there are many (enforcement of the PR Residency Obligation is perhaps among the more salient examples where some of the exceptions sometimes seem so common they might appear to be the rule).

But, again, the requirement the oath be taken in Canada is not really an exception to IRCC policy, but an exception to the law itself, as prescribed by the applicable regulations.

And, again, not all exceptions are created equal. Some exceptions may be exercised by individual officials with broadly defined discretion. Some exceptions are unusual, only exercised in special cases, and are subject to narrowly defined criteria. And some exceptions are RARE, only exercised in most unusual, special cases, and can only be authorized by the Minister. So far, allowing the taking of the oath outside Canada, for the grant of citizenship pursuant to Section 5(1) in the Citizenship Act, is the latter: RARE and (as best can be discerned) requiring specific authorization by the Minister personally (and it appears, this is only accessible by way of a petition approved by the registrar of citizenship).

All that said, to the extent the gist of your post was to frankly address false hopes, I understand and in effect concur; it appears there are some waiting for an opportunity to take the oath outside Canada for which there is almost no chance of that happening, and it would be cruel to not be forthright and frank about that.

I have just received an invitation to a virtual Oath ceremony even though the Immigration knows that I live in the States. They requested I-94 entries from me about a month ago, the last one showing me entering US a little over a year ago. I immediately assumed that they allow me to take the oath from outside Canada since others were asked to show a proof of return and I didnt. But then kept on reading and sadly I have to email them to remind that I am abroad and cant travel outside of the country due to not having a travel permit.
Anyone here who claims to know how things will go for a particular individual should not be trusted.

The odds are not good you will be allowed to take the oath while abroad. The door is not absolutely shut however. How you choose to navigate the process going forward is a very personal decision.

I do not generally offer suggestions let alone give advice. But no specialized expertise necessary to recognize that the applicant who is abroad long term, and especially one who is in a situation making a return to Canada (such as for taking the oath) difficult (let alone impossible), should seriously consider hiring a lawyer to be their representative and go from there. At the least, for example, a lawyer can help decide if, when, and most importantly how to appropriately petition the registrar of citizenship.
 
Last edited:

flystar2

Member
Aug 6, 2022
15
18
There are RARE, and I do mean RARE reports of adult grant citizenship applicants allowed to take the oath outside Canada. Most of the very few (very few) verified or otherwise credible reports have been in extremely specialized cases. A couple (and I mean literally just two, but maybe three) involved individuals in Ukraine.

Current law REQUIRES adult grant citizenship candidates take the oath IN Canada. The Minister can allow or approve an exception. There is no indication this is an authority the Minister delegates to another, and without extensive research to indicate otherwise, it appears this is NOT an authority that can be delegated.

A year and more ago there were claims made in this forum that the government (this would require more than just IRCC) might be moving toward allowing the oath outside Canada comparable to how IRCC allows taking the test while outside Canada. More than a year has passed since those claims were made, referencing NO reliable sources, and there has been no further indication that will happen.

To be clear, giving the test online to applicants outside Canada versus administering the oath outside Canada are very different: there is NO authority in the statutes or regulations which supports suspending processing applications based on an applicant being outside Canada, so there is no basis for denying or prohibiting applicants from taking an online test while outside Canada. Basically, if IRCC opened testing to online, they had to open to applicants regardless of their location.

In contrast, the regulations governing the oath required for adult grants of citizenship (that is, those under section (5(1) in the Citizenship Act) prescribe that the oath must be taken before a Citizenship Judge, at a citizenship ceremony, IN Canada. This is provided by Citizenship Regulations 19 and 24 seen here: https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-93-246/page-2.html#h-952206

As noted, EXCEPTION is allowed, which is prescribed by Regulation 22. On its face it appears to require the Minister to make this authorization personally and personally sign it.




Without characterizing their presence and activities here (allowing some, too many, are probably as you label), in regards to the prospect of taking the oath outside Canada there has been a fair amount of misleading commentary, some of which is outright misinformation, more of which is just lacking reliability.

As I noted, there have been some (a very few) verified reports, including a couple high profile cases published in mainstream media, and otherwise credible reports, illustrating that the exception allowed in Regulation 22 has been exercised and individuals have been allowed to take the oath abroad.

It warrants noting that there are lots and lots of "exceptions to IRCCs policies" of various sorts in various situations. The governing law allows for exceptions in numerous circumstances.

To be clear, allowing the oath be taken by an individual outside Canada is not really an exception to IRCC policy, but an exception to the law itself, as prescribed by the applicable regulations.

Which brings up the fact that not all exceptions are created equal. There is a huge difference between an exception to "policy," which generally is more broadly allowed and more common, versus exceptions to governing law, which requires the exception itself be provided by law. IRCC has broad authority to adopt "policy" and that includes broad authority to change policy, generally, or in particular instances, including allowing "exceptions," regarding which there are many (enforcement of the PR Residency Obligation is perhaps among the more salient examples where some of the exceptions sometimes seem so common they might appear to be the rule).

But, again, the requirement the oath be taken in Canada is not really an exception to IRCC policy, but an exception to the law itself, as prescribed by the applicable regulations.

And, again, not all exceptions are created equal. Some exceptions may be exercised by individual officials with broadly defined discretion. Some exceptions are unusual, only exercised in special cases, and are subject to narrowly defined criteria. And some exceptions are RARE, only exercised in most unusual, special cases, and can only be authorized by the Minister. So far, allowing the taking of the oath outside Canada, for the grant of citizenship pursuant to Section 5(1) in the Citizenship Act, is the latter: RARE and (as best can be discerned) requiring specific authorization by the Minister personally (and it appears, this is only accessible by way of a petition approved by the registrar of citizenship).

All that said, to the extent the gist of your post was to frankly address false hopes, I understand and in effect concur; it appears there are some waiting for an opportunity to take the oath outside Canada for which there is almost no chance of that happening, and it would be cruel to not be forthright and frank about that.



Anyone here who claims to know how things will go for a particular individual should not be trusted.

The odds are not good you will be allowed to take the oath while abroad. The door is not absolutely shut however. How you choose to navigate the process going forward is a very personal decision.

I do not generally offer suggestions let alone give advice. But no specialized expertise necessary to recognize that the applicant who is abroad long term, and especially one who is in a situation making a return to Canada (such as for taking the oath) difficult (let alone impossible), should seriously consider hiring a lawyer to be their representative and go from there. At the least, for example, a lawyer can help decide if, when, and most importantly how to appropriately petition the registrar of citizenship.
Many people use good VPN's and take their oath outside of Canada. Not sure how those don't get detected, I thought the sites don't work when using a VPN
 
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akbardxb

Champion Member
Nov 18, 2013
1,244
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Mississauga
LANDED..........
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Many people use good VPN's and take their oath outside of Canada. Not sure how those don't get detected, I thought the sites don't work when using a VPN
Unless you know someone personally who has done it, take it with a pinch of salt. The first question that is asked during the oath is to confirm that one is physically in Canada. Saying yes and using VPN is taking a rather big risk by misrepresenting and lying.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,183
Many people use good VPN's and take their oath outside of Canada. Not sure how those don't get detected, I thought the sites don't work when using a VPN

Unless you know someone personally who has done it, take it with a pinch of salt. The first question that is asked during the oath is to confirm that one is physically in Canada. Saying yes and using VPN is taking a rather big risk by misrepresenting and lying.
Absent more specific reporting with positive reliability indicators, I agree with @akbardxb that any such claims, about successfully taking the oath by committing fraud in this way, warrant strong skepticism. After all, only the foolish or those otherwise engaging in outright fraud will attempt this.

It is probably true that those who are very confident they can get away with it, and who have reasons why, for them, it is otherwise worth taking the risk, if they do and do not get caught, in-the-act so to say, and thus a certificate is issued, odds are high there will never be a problem. Which is NOT to suggest, not in the least, anyone do this. On the contrary, it is undoubtedly fair to say that trying to do this is, simply, a STUPID idea.


LONGER OBSERVATIONS (for those tempted to try it, given the odds of no serious problem, but interested in reading more before doing that):

In terms of temptation to engage in fraud in order to proceed with an online oath ceremony, I do not know enough about masking IP addresses, or otherwise concealing location in online transactions of this kind, to guess what the risks are for getting caught.

I assume it is easy, perhaps way too easy. Even though it might not be.

My sense is that for anyone who is otherwise qualified to take the oath, who is not otherwise pursuing a scheme to obtain Canadian citizenship through misrepresentation (overtly or by omission) or otherwise by fraud, whatever the risk of getting caught, even if rather low, it is not worth it. There is no statute of limitations.

The main risk is probably the chance of getting caught in-the-act. If not caught more or less "in-the-act," and a certificate of citizenship is issued, odds are there will be no problem after that.

In particular, it is true that Canada generally has not been at all aggressive in even investigating let alone prosecuting revocation of citizenship for misrepresentation, such that for most who do this, if they succeed in the fraud and a certificate of citizenship is issued, there is very low risk the government will come back later and proceed to take away their Canadian citizenship. So the main risk is getting caught in the act itself, which could result in the citizenship application being denied and a five year prohibition imposed. Which means if it works, and a certificate is issued, odds are high there will never be a problem.

So those who are very confident they can get away with it, and who have reasons why, for them, it is otherwise worth taking the risk, if they do and do not get caught, in-the-act so to say, and thus a certificate is issued, odds are high there will never be a problem.

Which, again, is not to suggest, not in the least, anyone do this. To be clear: it is still a BAD idea.

Beyond it being fraud, illegal, and in almost any reasonable person's view just plain wrong, high odds of it working out do not make it a good idea, not at all. On the contrary, much like playing Russian Roulette for which the odds are very good (five times out six you hear a click and that's it, a brief rush, a thrill, then life goes on; only a one in six chance you hear nothing cause you've blown your brains out), the downsides should readily outweigh any temptation to do this (in the Russian Roulette context, despite how good the odds are, doing it is rightfully considered suicidal).

Moreover, while the odds of no problem are really high (again, as long as one does not get caught, so to say, in-the-act), it warrants remembering that the previous Conservative government, when Stephen Harper was Prime Minister, did pursue an aggressive, intensive effort to identify and prosecute fraud, broadly against PRs and immigration consultants suspected of fraud, but also in particular against thousands of naturalized Canadian citizens. I do not know the number for those who actually lost citizenship (less than a thousand I believe, noting that it was clear the Harper government was grossly overreaching), except to know that in a three year period the number of revocations was many, many times the total number of revocations in Canada in all of Canada' history prior to that crackdown. The reason this should invite some to take pause before succumbing to any temptation to fudge during any aspect of their citizenship application process is that Harper's anointed successor, one of Harper's former Ministers, Pierre Poilievre, is likely to soon become the next Conservative leader and there is a real chance he will be the next Prime Minister. Despite some we'll play nice with immigrants rhetoric in his campaign, most indications are that Poilievre is actually further to the right, in regards to immigration, than Harper was . . . which among other things is likely to mean policy agendas favouring certain classes of immigrants but decidedly unfavourable toward other classes of immigrants.

In this and other regards, immigrants should be cautious about relying on the relatively lenient enforcement policies and practices for the past seven years, under the Liberal government. Things not only can change, but WHEN (it is not a matter of "if") the Conservatives form the government (and especially if they get a majority government), they are almost certain to change considerably.

Also note: Examples of actual cases in which citizenship has been revoked include individuals who failed to disclose such small details as which particular units they served under in the military (disclosing their military service but omitting specific unit assignments), such as an individual who for example was not accused of participating in any war crimes or crimes against humanity or such, the case for revocation commenced more than FIFTY years after he settled in Canada, after essentially a lifetime of being a positive, law-abiding, contributor to Canadian society, and the patriarch of three generations (as in having children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren) born and living in Canada.
 

vir03

Star Member
Jun 14, 2013
85
12
Update: I received the Canadian citizenship certificates for my children and myself in my country's Canadian consulate yesterday. We swore the oath outside Canada on March 31, so it took considerably shorter time than expected (CIC advised 6 months for delivering the certificates abroad).
Next month we'll apply for the passports, again from here. The official advised passport issuing abroad takes 26 working days
I see that for passport they ask to have 2 guarantor who are Canadian Citizen, how were you able to get the sign of 2 Canadians outside Canada?
 

DODGE1981

Star Member
Sep 2, 2020
50
2
I see that for passport they ask to have 2 guarantor who are Canadian Citizen, how were you able to get the sign of 2 Canadians outside Canada?
No , I think you can let a lawyer or a doctor if you issue your Canadian passport from outside Canada , it is not mandatory to let a Canadian citizen to be the guarantor on this case