Outland Application have very low % of success?

[Ndlo006]

I've been reading this forum all day trying to find answers to my current circumstance. I'm a Canadian citizen, and for the last 10 yrs I have been travelling and working around APAC. I met my wife who is currently a Malaysian national. During this time, i've met many people that are currently in the same boat as I am, marrying someone abroad and looking to move back home and starting putting down some roots. But unfortunately, i have 4 different cases where my friends going through the outland sponsorship process have been rejected. Needless to say, it was heartbreaking. However, 1 of them decided to move to Canada anyways, and restart an inland application which was miraculously approved. Is this really the case? It makes sense that priority goes to ppl already there. But what if the visitor visa expires, what would my wife do then?

Currently, I applied for my wife as of Nov 2020. We received confirmation of our application being received on March 2021. In June 2021, request for biometric, police report, and medical check have been issued. However we are on lockdown, and these public services are temporarily closed, so we wont make the 30 day period to submit the document. so that's where we are in the process.

if anyone can provide some insight, I would be internally grateful because this has been super stressful:
1) is it true that inland application has a very high chance of approval over outland? what do ppl do to maintain continuation of the visitor visa for the inland applicant?
2) my friends that were rejected, apparently did not show enough proof of their willingness to relocate immediate back to Canada, as their evidence was not sufficient. Which included termination of current employment, termination of current housing lease/rent, and closure of bank account. How are ppl suppose to live, on the street, and wait for the application process to be approved? what if its not?

Any advice or suggestions would be so appreicated, please and thank you.

ND

 

[scylla]

I've been reading this forum all day trying to find answers to my current circumstance. I'm a Canadian citizen, and for the last 10 yrs I have been travelling and working around APAC. I met my wife who is currently a Malaysian national. During this time, i've met many people that are currently in the same boat as I am, marrying someone abroad and looking to move back home and starting putting down some roots. But unfortunately, i have 4 different cases where my friends going through the outland sponsorship process have been rejected. Needless to say, it was heartbreaking. However, 1 of them decided to move to Canada anyways, and restart an inland application which was miraculously approved. Is this really the case? It makes sense that priority goes to ppl already there. But what if the visitor visa expires, what would my wife do then?

Currently, I applied for my wife as of Nov 2020. We received confirmation of our application being received on March 2021. In June 2021, request for biometric, police report, and medical check have been issued. However we are on lockdown, and these public services are temporarily closed, so we wont make the 30 day period to submit the document. so that's where we are in the process.

if anyone can provide some insight, I would be internally grateful because this has been super stressful:
1) is it true that inland application has a very high chance of approval over outland? what do ppl do to maintain continuation of the visitor visa for the inland applicant?
2) my friends that were rejected, apparently did not show enough proof of their willingness to relocate immediate back to Canada, as their evidence was not sufficient. Which included termination of current employment, termination of current housing lease/rent, and closure of bank account. How are ppl suppose to live, on the street, and wait for the application process to be approved? what if its not?

Any advice or suggestions would be so appreicated, please and thank you.

ND

1) No, this isn't true at all.
2) It's hard to comment without knowing the specific details of your friend's case and what evidence they provided. Sometimes people feel they put together a strong argument but don't provide enough actual evidence to support what they are saying. We have seen a ton of people be approved in these circumstances. It's absolutely possible, lots of people have done it, and people here can help to suggest what evidence to provide to prove you will relocate.

 

[armoured]

1) is it true that inland application has a very high chance of approval over outland? what do ppl do to maintain continuation of the visitor visa for the inland applicant?

It is true in a very specific narrow sense: a Canadian citizen who returns to reside in Canada with their spouse to apply from within Canada is NOT going to have the question of intent to return to Canada come up at all.

But in terms of general impression: no, actually probably the majority of citizens-abroad-sponsoring seem to go through without major hitches. Probably the files actually are different.

2) my friends that were rejected, apparently did not show enough proof of their willingness to relocate immediate back to Canada, as their evidence was not sufficient. Which included termination of current employment, termination of current housing lease/rent, and closure of bank account. How are ppl suppose to live, on the street, and wait for the application process to be approved? what if its not?

The list of things you can show to demonstrate your commitment are examples - it doesn't mean you already need to have done all of those things, but that those will help. And if you've done none of them, well, perhaps you're not serious? In other words, I don't think IRCC is actually requiring impoverishment, but if your 'plan' is "we're thinking of moving", that may not cut it.

Here's a thread with a similar case: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/refusal-what-now.733343/

Read all the way through - particularly to the point where the applicant, when discovering how hard it was to actually move to Canada permanently, started to reconsider.

(Unfortunately this requirement of IRCC - by law - exists in large part because a lot of such cases of long-term expats didn't really plan to move back to Canada, but sort of wanted the option, and then years later have never returned to Canada ... anyway you can argue with it, but it is what it is)

So: there seems to be no single factor. IRCC seems to have started requesting some additional demonstration of intent for files that were well under way (i.e. 6-12 months had passed). This may or may not be routine, or a new policy. But in the cases I'm aware of, it seems that the applicants had made no further preps since initially applying. I mean it: precisely none - no movers, no more serious plans to reside, hadn't moved money, employment plans/searches were perfunctory, etc.

You can show a fair bit of intent with serious employment searches, property searches, travel arrangements, schooling arrangements, education and qualification preps, etc. Exactly what bar they set is unfortunately not known - but 'plans' amounting to nothing more than "my sister says I can live with her and I talked to my cousin bob about a job" probably won't cut it. The extent of ties may also be a factor (someone who has been abroad for 20 years and has no ties of any kind to Canada may get less benefit of the doubt).

And it is entirely possible/feasible for a lot of applicants to apply from abroad and for the sponsor to return before final approval - both to show good faith but also because that might actually be the best way to stage a return to Canada. (That might mean some time apart but read other Pr sponsorship cases here - in comparison it's a minor inconvenience to move a few months earlier). Overall the reports here - somewhat anecdotal of course - are that most get approved.

[And yes, I was approved with spouse under this with no issues and no additional requests for information - but I had very strong ties to Canada, plans for kids and education, plans for work and how to support ourselves, and actually had taken a package to leave previous employment. If I were to criticize our own approach and submission - actually moving to Canada is far more intensive than we'd hoped, so even though our submission was probably 'good', or at least good enough, it still was nothing compared to the challenge of actually moving countries. Granted, kids makes that part harder.]

 

[kanislupos]

I've been reading this forum all day trying to find answers to my current circumstance. I'm a Canadian citizen, and for the last 10 yrs I have been travelling and working around APAC. I met my wife who is currently a Malaysian national. During this time, i've met many people that are currently in the same boat as I am, marrying someone abroad and looking to move back home and starting putting down some roots. But unfortunately, i have 4 different cases where my friends going through the outland sponsorship process have been rejected. Needless to say, it was heartbreaking. However, 1 of them decided to move to Canada anyways, and restart an inland application which was miraculously approved. Is this really the case? It makes sense that priority goes to ppl already there. But what if the visitor visa expires, what would my wife do then?

Currently, I applied for my wife as of Nov 2020. We received confirmation of our application being received on March 2021. In June 2021, request for biometric, police report, and medical check have been issued. However we are on lockdown, and these public services are temporarily closed, so we wont make the 30 day period to submit the document. so that's where we are in the process.

if anyone can provide some insight, I would be internally grateful because this has been super stressful:
1) is it true that inland application has a very high chance of approval over outland? what do ppl do to maintain continuation of the visitor visa for the inland applicant?
2) my friends that were rejected, apparently did not show enough proof of their willingness to relocate immediate back to Canada, as their evidence was not sufficient. Which included termination of current employment, termination of current housing lease/rent, and closure of bank account. How are ppl suppose to live, on the street, and wait for the application process to be approved? what if its not?

Any advice or suggestions would be so appreicated, please and thank you.

ND

I don't have any helpful advice but for what it's worth, I'm also a Malaysian outland applicant! My husband, the sponsor lives in Canada though. I applied in October 2020, the latest update was that I passed my medicals!

 

[Ndlo006]

It is true in a very specific narrow sense: a Canadian citizen who returns to reside in Canada with their spouse to apply from within Canada is NOT going to have the question of intent to return to Canada come up at all.

But in terms of general impression: no, actually probably the majority of citizens-abroad-sponsoring seem to go through without major hitches. Probably the files actually are different.

2) my friends that were rejected, apparently did not show enough proof of their willingness to relocate immediate back to Canada, as their evidence was not sufficient. Which included termination of current employment, termination of current housing lease/rent, and closure of bank account. How are ppl suppose to live, on the street, and wait for the application process to be approved? what if its not?

The list of things you can show to demonstrate your commitment are examples - it doesn't mean you already need to have done all of those things, but that those will help. And if you've done none of them, well, perhaps you're not serious? In other words, I don't think IRCC is actually requiring impoverishment, but if your 'plan' is "we're thinking of moving", that may not cut it.

Here's a thread with a similar case: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/refusal-what-now.733343/

Read all the way through - particularly to the point where the applicant, when discovering how hard it was to actually move to Canada permanently, started to reconsider.

(Unfortunately this requirement of IRCC - by law - exists in large part because a lot of such cases of long-term expats didn't really plan to move back to Canada, but sort of wanted the option, and then years later have never returned to Canada ... anyway you can argue with it, but it is what it is)

So: there seems to be no single factor. IRCC seems to have started requesting some additional demonstration of intent for files that were well under way (i.e. 6-12 months had passed). This may or may not be routine, or a new policy. But in the cases I'm aware of, it seems that the applicants had made no further preps since initially applying. I mean it: precisely none - no movers, no more serious plans to reside, hadn't moved money, employment plans/searches were perfunctory, etc.

You can show a fair bit of intent with serious employment searches, property searches, travel arrangements, schooling arrangements, education and qualification preps, etc. Exactly what bar they set is unfortunately not known - but 'plans' amounting to nothing more than "my sister says I can live with her and I talked to my cousin bob about a job" probably won't cut it. The extent of ties may also be a factor (someone who has been abroad for 20 years and has no ties of any kind to Canada may get less benefit of the doubt).

And it is entirely possible/feasible for a lot of applicants to apply from abroad and for the sponsor to return before final approval - both to show good faith but also because that might actually be the best way to stage a return to Canada. (That might mean some time apart but read other Pr sponsorship cases here - in comparison it's a minor inconvenience to move a few months earlier). Overall the reports here - somewhat anecdotal of course - are that most get approved.

[And yes, I was approved with spouse under this with no issues and no additional requests for information - but I had very strong ties to Canada, plans for kids and education, plans for work and how to support ourselves, and actually had taken a package to leave previous employment. If I were to criticize our own approach and submission - actually moving to Canada is far more intensive than we'd hoped, so even though our submission was probably 'good', or at least good enough, it still was nothing compared to the challenge of actually moving countries. Granted, kids makes that part harder.]
[/QUOTE]

1) No, this isn't true at all.
2) It's hard to comment without knowing the specific details of your friend's case and what evidence they provided. Sometimes people feel they put together a strong argument but don't provide enough actual evidence to support what they are saying. We have seen a ton of people be approved in these circumstances. It's absolutely possible, lots of people have done it, and people here can help to suggest what evidence to provide to prove you will relocate.

Thank you so much for your input. Really appreciate you taking the time to respond.

What I currently have as evidence of intent are the following:
- email thread of real estate agents on inquiry of finding a condo for rent
- international mover quotations
- email receipts and emails threads on job searches and interviews
- (future) termination of rental agreement
- (future) and purchase of flight tickets

**when I say future, I mean when we get to the stage where

 

[Ndlo006]

I don't have any helpful advice but for what it's worth, I'm also a Malaysian outland applicant! My husband, the sponsor lives in Canada though. I applied in October 2020, the latest update was that I passed my medicals!

thank you for writing. I am curious to ask. Does your status update look like this:
https://ibb.co/3y9tDKL

bc for point 4 and 5, we did not recieve anything that required a response. point 4 was requesting us to link the application to an account. but in the status update its saying that my wife haven't responded or sent the required documents. Which doesn't make sense. Yet, the process continues to proceed to requesting medical/biometric/police report. does your status update look similar?

 

[armoured]

Thank you so much for your input. Really appreciate you taking the time to respond.

What I currently have as evidence of intent are the following:
- email thread of real estate agents on inquiry of finding a condo for rent
- international mover quotations
- email receipts and emails threads on job searches and interviews
- (future) termination of rental agreement
- (future) and purchase of flight tickets

**when I say future, I mean when we get to the stage where

It's a good start. Also look into things like financial arrangements (eg bank accounts in Canada), health insurance in Canada, whatever work or educational qualifications may be relevant, even some trivial stuff that may be relevant to you, what your spouse will do, etc.

And a really important point: you don't need to have everything the day you submit your app; but be prepared to respond if later in the process they ask for additional information. It will be less stressful if you've continued to make preps and can just share with them what you've already done.

You and/or spouse visiting Canada to make preps could be strong points too. Or if your spouse already has a visa, actually moving before PR status is finalized.

 

[kanislupos]

thank you for writing. I am curious to ask. Does your status update look like this:
https://ibb.co/3y9tDKL

bc for point 4 and 5, we did not recieve anything that required a response. point 4 was requesting us to link the application to an account. but in the status update its saying that my wife haven't responded or sent the required documents. Which doesn't make sense. Yet, the process continues to proceed to requesting medical/biometric/police report. does your status update look similar?

ECAS does not let you know that they have received the additional docs. You can link your application (use your wife's details, register as principal applicant) on GCKey to get a more detailed overview. All the messages they send you will be in there as well.

https://ibb.co/PMjvx80 Here's what my GCkey looks like.

GCKey : https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/account.html

Let me know if you need help!

 

[Ndlo006]

ECAS does not let you know that they have received the additional docs. You can link your application (use your wife's details, register as principal applicant) on GCKey to get a more detailed overview. All the messages they send you will be in there as well.

https://ibb.co/PMjvx80 Here's what my GCkey looks like.

GCKey : https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/account.html

Let me know if you need help!

Thank you so much.

One more question. They recently asked for biometrics, police report and medical. As per the quote below, is this required for myself (applicant) and my spouse (Canadian Husband)?

þ Original Good Conduct Certificate (or Certificate of No Criminal Record) from the police authorities of SINGAPORE & INDONESIA where you, your spouse/common-law partner, and each of your dependent children who is 18 years of age and older, have resided for a period of six months or more since turning 18.

 

[armoured]

Thank you so much.

One more question. They recently asked for biometrics, police report and medical. As per the quote below, is this required for myself (applicant) and my spouse (Canadian Husband)?

þ Original Good Conduct Certificate (or Certificate of No Criminal Record) from the police authorities of SINGAPORE & INDONESIA where you, your spouse/common-law partner, and each of your dependent children who is 18 years of age and older, have resided for a period of six months or more since turning 18.

Not required for sponsor.

 

[kanislupos]

Thank you so much.

One more question. They recently asked for biometrics, police report and medical. As per the quote below, is this required for myself (applicant) and my spouse (Canadian Husband)?

þ Original Good Conduct Certificate (or Certificate of No Criminal Record) from the police authorities of SINGAPORE & INDONESIA where you, your spouse/common-law partner, and each of your dependent children who is 18 years of age and older, have resided for a period of six months or more since turning 18.

Only for you, the principal applicant!

 

[Ndlo006]

Not required for sponsor.

Only for you, the principal applicant!

thank you to you both, its so nice to get help from this forum!