+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Out of status in Canada during pandemic can it count towards physical presence requirement citizenship

abdallahraul

Newbie
Jan 8, 2025
4
1
I was out of status for 2 years during pandemic from 2020-2021.
I am currently a pr and if those days counted i would be eligible for my physical presence requirement for citizenship is there any ruling or anything that covers the pandemic that could make those days count towards my physical presence eligibility.

I Have been in Canada 1st as a student from 2007-2012
and then on a work permit from 2012-2019 Nov

I fell out of status 2019 Nov and didn't restore during the 90 day restoration period
I got PR in Sept 2021 but then i left the country for 2 years in April 2022 and i have been back in Canada now since April 2024.

If the time that i was out of status counted i would be able to apply way sooner. I have been here so long 10+ yrs and i would love to spend time back home with my parents for few years, so if there is any chance of applying earlier i would love to take it.
 

arthurpono

Star Member
Jan 6, 2020
73
14
Can you type your range dates you did not have status?
Can you type your range dates you received your PR and you were in Canada.?

You returned to Canada to 2024 but when did you leave?
 

YVR123

VIP Member
Jul 27, 2017
7,918
3,154
I was out of status for 2 years during pandemic from 2020-2021.
I am currently a pr and if those days counted i would be eligible for my physical presence requirement for citizenship is there any ruling or anything that covers the pandemic that could make those days count towards my physical presence eligibility.

I Have been in Canada 1st as a student from 2007-2012
and then on a work permit from 2012-2019 Nov

I fell out of status 2019 Nov and didn't restore during the 90 day restoration period
I got PR in Sept 2021 but then i left the country for 2 years in April 2022 and i have been back in Canada now since April 2024.

If the time that i was out of status counted i would be able to apply way sooner. I have been here so long 10+ yrs and i would love to spend time back home with my parents for few years, so if there is any chance of applying earlier i would love to take it.
I think only time when you have a valid temporary residence status can be count towards citizenship.
(e.g. student, visitor, worker...etc)
So if you lost your status and didn't restore to a visitor before you got your PR, those days cannot be counted.
It's just on my interpretation. So maybe others have more official source to reference to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: canuck78

abdallahraul

Newbie
Jan 8, 2025
4
1
Can you type your range dates you did not have status?
Can you type your range dates you received your PR and you were in Canada.?
You returned to Canada to 2024 but when did you leave?

Out of status Nov 2019-Sept 2021
Received pr status Sept 2021
Left Canada 1st April 2022
returned to Canada 1st April 2024 till date
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
97,065
22,978
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
I was out of status for 2 years during pandemic from 2020-2021.
I am currently a pr and if those days counted i would be eligible for my physical presence requirement for citizenship is there any ruling or anything that covers the pandemic that could make those days count towards my physical presence eligibility.

I Have been in Canada 1st as a student from 2007-2012
and then on a work permit from 2012-2019 Nov

I fell out of status 2019 Nov and didn't restore during the 90 day restoration period
I got PR in Sept 2021 but then i left the country for 2 years in April 2022 and i have been back in Canada now since April 2024.

If the time that i was out of status counted i would be able to apply way sooner. I have been here so long 10+ yrs and i would love to spend time back home with my parents for few years, so if there is any chance of applying earlier i would love to take it.
There is no such ruling. You can only count the days you had valid status in Canada.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
97,065
22,978
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
I was out of status for 2 years during pandemic from 2020-2021.
I am currently a pr and if those days counted i would be eligible for my physical presence requirement for citizenship is there any ruling or anything that covers the pandemic that could make those days count towards my physical presence eligibility.

I Have been in Canada 1st as a student from 2007-2012
and then on a work permit from 2012-2019 Nov

I fell out of status 2019 Nov and didn't restore during the 90 day restoration period
I got PR in Sept 2021 but then i left the country for 2 years in April 2022 and i have been back in Canada now since April 2024.

If the time that i was out of status counted i would be able to apply way sooner. I have been here so long 10+ yrs and i would love to spend time back home with my parents for few years, so if there is any chance of applying earlier i would love to take it.
Based on the dates you've provided and how long you've been out of Canada, looks like you'll qualify to apply around April 2027 (without factoring in time spent outside of Canada for vacations, etc.).
 

abdallahraul

Newbie
Jan 8, 2025
4
1
There is no such ruling. You can only count the days you had valid status in Canada.
This post by canadavisa says there are exceptional circumstances that judges could consider.

https://www.canadavisa.com/canadian-citizenship-the-1095-day-rule.html
  • The applicant's overall pattern of physical presence in Canada indicates that he or she returns home to Canada, and does not merely "pay a visit" to Canada.
  • Despite repeated absences, the total number of days absent from Canada are relatively few.
  • The physical absence from Canada is caused by a clearly temporary situation such as employment or study abroad for a limited period of time.
  • The quality of the applicant's connection with Canada is more substantial than that which exists with any other country, as reflected by the applicant's involvement in Canadian work and business ventures, community organizations, and payment of Canadian income tax."
Wouldn't the fact that i have been here since i was 17yrs(i am 35 now) away from my family count towards quality of connection as mentioned above?
 

Buletruck

VIP Member
May 18, 2015
6,955
2,786
This post by canadavisa says there are exceptional circumstances that judges could consider.

https://www.canadavisa.com/canadian-citizenship-the-1095-day-rule.html
  • The applicant's overall pattern of physical presence in Canada indicates that he or she returns home to Canada, and does not merely "pay a visit" to Canada.
  • Despite repeated absences, the total number of days absent from Canada are relatively few.
  • The physical absence from Canada is caused by a clearly temporary situation such as employment or study abroad for a limited period of time.
  • The quality of the applicant's connection with Canada is more substantial than that which exists with any other country, as reflected by the applicant's involvement in Canadian work and business ventures, community organizations, and payment of Canadian income tax."
Wouldn't the fact that i have been here since i was 17yrs(i am 35 now) away from my family count towards quality of connection as mentioned above?
Considering it's all based on the 5 years preceding the application date, I doubt anytime beyond that would be considered as relevant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Copingwithlife

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
97,065
22,978
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
This post by canadavisa says there are exceptional circumstances that judges could consider.

https://www.canadavisa.com/canadian-citizenship-the-1095-day-rule.html
  • The applicant's overall pattern of physical presence in Canada indicates that he or she returns home to Canada, and does not merely "pay a visit" to Canada.
  • Despite repeated absences, the total number of days absent from Canada are relatively few.
  • The physical absence from Canada is caused by a clearly temporary situation such as employment or study abroad for a limited period of time.
  • The quality of the applicant's connection with Canada is more substantial than that which exists with any other country, as reflected by the applicant's involvement in Canadian work and business ventures, community organizations, and payment of Canadian income tax."
Wouldn't the fact that i have been here since i was 17yrs(i am 35 now) away from my family count towards quality of connection as mentioned above?
You are free to pay the fees and try however expect refusal without having 1095 residency day, regardless of what the above says.
 

Seym

Champion Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,842
933
This post by canadavisa says there are exceptional circumstances that judges could consider.
As it will probably take years to end up in front of a citizenship judge, with a significant chance of being told "yeah, no, application denied", waiting before applying for citizenship once you accumulate 1095 days may get you to the finish line faster...
 

Alalac

Hero Member
Oct 2, 2021
637
332
This post by canadavisa says there are exceptional circumstances that judges could consider.

https://www.canadavisa.com/canadian-citizenship-the-1095-day-rule.html
  • The applicant's overall pattern of physical presence in Canada indicates that he or she returns home to Canada, and does not merely "pay a visit" to Canada.
  • Despite repeated absences, the total number of days absent from Canada are relatively few.
  • The physical absence from Canada is caused by a clearly temporary situation such as employment or study abroad for a limited period of time.
  • The quality of the applicant's connection with Canada is more substantial than that which exists with any other country, as reflected by the applicant's involvement in Canadian work and business ventures, community organizations, and payment of Canadian income tax."
Wouldn't the fact that i have been here since i was 17yrs(i am 35 now) away from my family count towards quality of connection as mentioned above?
You should base our researches on the OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT WEBSITE only.. all other sites are not 100% accurate
 
  • Like
Reactions: Seym and scylla

abdallahraul

Newbie
Jan 8, 2025
4
1
Thanks everyone for your responses. i spoke to a Cohen lawyer and they said it wouldn't work so i guess i'm just gonna suck it up and wait another 2 yrs
 
  • Like
Reactions: YVR123

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,496
3,262
This post by canadavisa says there are exceptional circumstances that judges could consider.

https://www.canadavisa.com/canadian-citizenship-the-1095-day-rule.html
  • The applicant's overall pattern of physical presence in Canada indicates that he or she returns home to Canada, and does not merely "pay a visit" to Canada.
  • Despite repeated absences, the total number of days absent from Canada are relatively few.
  • The physical absence from Canada is caused by a clearly temporary situation such as employment or study abroad for a limited period of time.
  • The quality of the applicant's connection with Canada is more substantial than that which exists with any other country, as reflected by the applicant's involvement in Canadian work and business ventures, community organizations, and payment of Canadian income tax."
Wouldn't the fact that i have been here since i was 17yrs(i am 35 now) away from my family count towards quality of connection as mentioned above?
i spoke to a Cohen lawyer and they said it wouldn't work so i guess i'm just gonna suck it up and wait another 2 yrs
As others have said, in their various ways (including this site's hosts) and persuasively, forget trying to apply for a grant of citizenship without meeting the physical presence requirement.

I hope our hosts revise their web page information about eligibility for citizenship accordingly.

Beyond that . . . by way of explanation, with some history:

Dare I be so bold and impolite as to challenge our hosts here? Apparently no need to do that; their advice too is no go (according to the OP). So the challenge goes to whoever is responsible for the "special circumstances" discretion misstatement on the web site . . . which, perhaps (and hopefully), will be rectified soon.

For purposes of the query and the OP here, the question is resolved. No doubt. No special circumstances relief for those who fall short of meeting the physical presence requirement.

For purposes of explaining for anyone still wondering and interested . . . .

For any PR who does not have a citizenship application already in progress that was made before June 10, 2015, the law is clear and NO, Citizenship Judges do NOT have discretion to "bend" the 1095 days physical presence requirement.

In a very narrow sense the "exceptional circumstances" information posted by our hosts is valid, but only applicable to anyone who applied for citizenship prior to June 10, 2015 and whose application is still pending (do not dismiss the prospect there are citizenship applications made more than nine years ago still in process -- just last year the Federal Court finally ordered IRCC to finalize an application for citizenship that had been pending for more than TWO DECADES . . . yeah, more than twenty years).

That information, as posted by our hosts, is badly misleading since there is nothing to indicate the "exceptional circumstances" discretion Citizenship Judges had under prior law (when there was a "residency" rather than physical presence requirement) does NOT apply to citizenship applications made since June 10, 2015 (when the residency requirement was repealed and replaced by a physical presence requirement), including applications made under current law (subject to the 3/5 presence requirement).

Just how misleading is aggravated by the representation this web page was updated as recently as March 2023, as if it represents recent and current rules. Moreover, there is another web page about eligibility for citizenship where our hosts outright misstate the eligibility requirements. There, on a page also purportedly updated March 2023, it states:
You must have lived in Canada for at least three years (1,095 days) out of the past five years before applying for Canadian citizenship (unless there are exceptional circumstances).

For adults to be eligible for a grant of citizenship, currently, there is no "unless there are exceptional circumstances" exception to the 1,095 days within five years physical presence requirement. (The residency requirement for which CJs had exceptional circumstances discretion, allowing the grant of citizenship to applicants who were not physically present at least 1,095 days, was a 3/4 rule interpreted and applied in different ways by different CJs and different FC justices (a real mess for a long time, until 205), requiring residency (so not necessarily physical presence) for . . . at least three years under the most liberal interpretations, or four years according to Justice Reed and his decision in Koo.)

For further explanation as to why it is so obvious that the exceptional circumstances discretion posted by our hosts is actually about the residency requirement, under previous law, see below.


Section 5(4) applications for a grant of citizenship:

That said, there has been too much misleading buzz lately about the prospect of making a Section 5(4) application for a grant of citizenship which does not require physical presence in Canada, let alone providing discretion to "bend" the 1,095 day presence requirement. It appears that this buzz is largely derived from reddit discussions, and, I suspect, is perhaps fueled by unauthorized con-consultants trolling for easy marks.

Section 5(4) in the Citizenship Act provides:
Despite any other provision of this Act, the Minister may, in his or her discretion, grant citizenship to any person to alleviate cases of statelessness or of special and unusual hardship or to reward services of an exceptional value to Canada.

The part of this provision getting attention (and there have been waves of this in the past) is its authorization of discretion in the Minister (not CJs) to grant citizenship to alleviate cases "of special and unusual hardship." On its face that looks like a big, wide open door, and maybe like exceptional circumstances. Historically, and most likely still (contrary to reddit spill into this forum), that's a narrow path and damn tough hill to climb.

Since we currently live in a world in which scores and scores tend to claim special and unusual, or undue hardship, if inconvenienced, or even if they do not get what they want and get it soon, it appears many are seeing this as a way to apply for and be granted Canadian citizenship. I do not mean to dismiss sincere and legitimate applications for citizenship on this basis (it appears there has been an increase in these grants recently, but in situations where there is indeed special and unusual hardship, including grants to children born to a Canadian citizen but excluded from citizenship by the first-generation-limitation (FGL) where the individual is dealing with hardships and needs citizenship without waiting for upcoming changes in FGL rules pursuant to which they will become citizens by operation of law, as of their birth to a Canadian citizen parent -- as of their birth, but not yet, with when currently undetermined although a March deadline is rapidly approaching).

But there is little evidence to support the suggestions in other threads here that this approach is an easy, alternative path to citizenship.

And it is NOT what our hosts' website is referencing in the information about "exceptional circumstances" discretion. Leading to . . .

. . . source for the list of exceptional circumstances, which is no mystery . . . to be continued . . .
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,496
3,262
Source For The List of Exceptional Circumstances Is No Mystery: Koo

It is no mystery where this list of exceptional circumstances comes from. These six factors listed by our hosts are a paraphrase (almost but not verbatim) of the Koo factors, referring to the very often cited 1992 Federal Court Koo decision 1 FCR 286 https://canlii.ca/t/4gqw ) in which the FC set out these six factors for Citizenship Judges (CJs) to consider in deciding whether to approve a grant of citizenship to an applicant who was not physically present in Canada for at least 1095 days within the preceding four years (call them "short-applicants"). But that, and other decisions allowing the grant of citizenship to short-applicants, was based on the residency requirement (applicable prior to June 10, 2015) rather than physical presence requirements (applicable after June 10, 2015, a 3/5 requirement since October 2017).

At the time, I believe, Justice Reed intended to impose a more structured and significantly more strict limit on what would meet the residency requirement. Some time after the Harper conservatives became the government, Harper's CIC (now IRCC) pushed harder and harder for the more strict 1095 physical presence interpretation, and eventually amended the Citizenship Act to repeal the residency requirement and replace it with a physical presence requirement, taking effect June 10, 2015. It is a bit ironic that what was a conservative hardline approach, as set out in Koo, years later would be seen as liberal if not overly lenient.

In any event, the residency requirement, pursuant to which citizenship could be granted based on the Koo factors, or as the hosts of this site have characterized them, "exceptional circumstances," does not apply to any application made after June 10, 2015. After June 10, 2015 applicants MUST meet the minimum physical presence requirement (currently a 3/5 rule).

So, how did these Koo factors, applicable to applications made prior to June 2015, slip into a law firm's web site?

Obviously I do not know. And that deserves emphasis, I do not know. But I have some theories, just possibilities . . .

. . . perhaps it was legacy content tangled and retained with other updated information (a plague on those with many and extensive website pages trying to maintain current information that is always changing), or​
. . . and, well, there was a 2019 decision by Justice Annis, the Younis v. Canada, 2019 FC 291, https://canlii.ca/t/hz8g7 decision, in which the wrong version of subsection 5(1)(c) was quoted, erroneously quoting the 3/5 physical presence requirement (rather than the residency 3/4 requirement version that applied to that particular applicant's case), and in which Justice Annis addresses the Koo factors (albeit rejecting the applicant's argument the CJ should have applied the Koo factors, and then proceeded to say the outcome of the case would have been the same, anyway, if the Koo factors were applied); perhaps an eager-beaver-sort got out over their skis a bit and seized the idea that the Koo factors could possibly be applied to the physical presence 3/5 requirement. Just a maybe.​


Just-in-Case, For Believers In the Possibility of a Special Circumstances Exception to 1,095 days of Physical Presence:

@Seym addressed a key consideration. How long it would take to get the application before a Citizenship Judge. Currently that appears to be well over a year, and probably more like approaching two years or even more. So, even if there is a slight chance that:
(1) a CJ has authority to approve a citizenship application if the applicant is short of the physical presence requirement (not likely, not at all likely), and
(2) the CJ is persuaded to exercise such discretion (probably not but that is is a guess, but an uninformed guess since there has been NO indication CJs have such authority or have exercised such authority (under current law anyway), and
(3) the Minister would proceed to grant citizenship rather than appeal (for a short-applicant odds seem high the Minister would appeal)​

there is no getting there, probably, for at least nearly two or more years. A long wait hoping for an outcome that, even if one believes it is available (despite the fact it isn't), is very, very unlikely.