Option for not meeting residency obligation as a PR holder

[sapguru]

I would like to hear from the forum on the options when a PR holder is not able to meet to 790 days obligation, especially not being able to travel due to Covid-19 restrictions. Thanks in advance.

 

[scylla]

I would like to hear from the forum on the options when a PR holder is not able to meet to 790 days obligation, especially not being able to travel due to Covid-19 restrictions. Thanks in advance.

Unfortunately no exceptions to the 730 day requirement have been announced at this time due to COVID-19. Canadian PRs are still free to travel to Canada.

Probably the best advice any of us here can give you is to return to Canada as soon as it's possible for you - and especially before your PR card expires.

 

[canuck78]

I would like to hear from the forum on the options when a PR holder is not able to meet to 790 days obligation, especially not being able to travel due to Covid-19 restrictions. Thanks in advance.

It is 730 days. Travel has been possible although more difficult during covid. Covid has also only been an issue for 1 year so covid wouldn't be a reason not to meet your RO.

 

[Buletruck]

I would like to hear from the forum on the options when a PR holder is not able to meet to 790 days obligation, especially not being able to travel due to Covid-19 restrictions. Thanks in advance.

I would think that it would likely depend how short of residency obligation you are. While there are no changes to the requirement, I suspect their is some leniency for those who have had difficulty travelling in the past year. If you have been out if Canada 4 of the past 5 years, you’re probably out of luck.

 

[sapguru]

Thanks for the feedback. Quick questions - if the PR card is expiring on June 2022, PR holder enters country in March 2022 with the fact that by June 2022 his PR obligation will not be met, would the Immigration at airport allow him to enter? And would he have to leave by June 2022? Thanks in advance.

 

[IndianBos]

Thanks for the feedback. Quick questions - if the PR card is expiring on June 2022, PR holder enters country in March 2022 with the fact that by June 2022 his PR obligation will not be met, would the Immigration at airport allow him to enter? And would he have to leave by June 2022? Thanks in advance.

They will be allowed to enter, no questions about that. At the border, one of two cases will happen depending on how you explain the reason of your absence:
1. Let in with a warning. In this case, you have to live in Canada for 2 years straight to be in compliance with RO.
2. Your reasons are not enough and they begin the process to revoke your PR. You will be given papers and will be explained your options to appeal the decision with 30 days. You will still be allowed to enter and live in Canada while your appeal is pending with the govt.

 

[SHFR]

It is 730 days. Travel has been possible although more difficult during covid. Covid has also only been an issue for 1 year so covid wouldn't be a reason not to meet your RO.

Not really true. I live in France and there were already 2 lockdown periods where it was forbidden to travel to the airport in Paris or to drive outside of France to take a plane from another country. Plus, since January 31st, France allows flights to other EU (European Union) countries, but forbids flights to countries outside EU (thus including Canada...) and customs officers in other EU countries (like Germany or Luxembourg, close to me) are instructed to not allow French citizens to fly outside EU from their airports... "because we can't allow you to do what is forbidden in your country"... So, since the beginning of the restrictions one year ago, about 40% of the time I am forbidden from travelling to Canada by my own country...

 

[Copingwithlife]

Not really true. I live in France and there were already 2 lockdown periods where it was forbidden to travel to the airport in Paris or to drive outside of France to take a plane from another country. Plus, since January 31st, France allows flights to other EU (European Union) countries, but forbids flights to countries outside EU (thus including Canada...) and customs officers in other EU countries (like Germany or Luxembourg, close to me) are instructed to not allow French citizens to fly outside EU from their airports... "because we can't allow you to do what is forbidden in your country"... So, since the beginning of the restrictions one year ago, about 40% of the time I am forbidden from travelling to Canada by my own country...

Ok, so that’s a year .
What about the others years that make up RO ?
It’s 2 out of 5 years.
Repeat 2 out of 5 years .

 

[SHFR]

2 out of 5 years, 146 days per year on average, over 5 years... Thank you, I'm an engineer, I know how to count...
Well, I renewed my PR card in October 2019, 6 months before COVID so technically I still have ample time to meet RO before October 2024 but so far I have accumulated only 40 days in 1.5 years, I had to cancel/rebook 5 times travel plans to Canada and I have no clue when French government will allow me to travel to Canada again... Also, even with vaccines, it is quite likely that travel limitations will span over 2-3 years minimum...
Plus, the fact that Canada, at the other end, forbids stays shorter than 14 days, even for PR, makes it quite more difficult to accumulate time, as it means taking minimum 2 weeks vacation for any stay. Should there be no such restrictions, I would take days here and there to come for long weekends, and accumulate the 730 days. This is now impossible, due to travel restrictions... And now, it is becoming impossible to meet RO without fully relocating to Canada. OK, I may do it eventually...
Just wanted to point out that no, things are not as simple as "Canadian PRs are still free to travel to Canada" and "Travel has been possible although more difficult during covid". With limitations on both sides (CA and remote country), it is hard, for reasons beyond my control, and I would appreciate that canadian authorities take this into account

 

[canuck78]

Not really true. I live in France and there were already 2 lockdown periods where it was forbidden to travel to the airport in Paris or to drive outside of France to take a plane from another country. Plus, since January 31st, France allows flights to other EU (European Union) countries, but forbids flights to countries outside EU (thus including Canada...) and customs officers in other EU countries (like Germany or Luxembourg, close to me) are instructed to not allow French citizens to fly outside EU from their airports... "because we can't allow you to do what is forbidden in your country"... So, since the beginning of the restrictions one year ago, about 40% of the time I am forbidden from travelling to Canada by my own country...

But for 40% of the time you were able to travel and if you were out of status before covid.

 

[dpenabill]

I would like to hear from the forum on the options when a PR holder is not able to meet to 790 days obligation, especially not being able to travel due to Covid-19 restrictions.

The PR Residency Obligation is 730 days (not 790), requiring a PR to be IN Canada (or entitled to credit for being in Canada) at least 730 days within the relevant five years. For anyone who became a PR five years or more ago (which appears to include you, since you have renewed your PR card at least once), the relevant five years is the previous five years . . . so, as of today, for such PRs to be in compliance with the PR RO they must have been IN Canada, again as of today, at least 730 days since March 15, 2016.

A week from now, to comply with the PR RO they must have been IN Canada at least 730 days since March 22, 2016 (meaning that any days in Canada before March 22, 2016, will NO longer count toward meeting the RO, as those days are no longer within the relevant five years). And so on.

As others noted, there are no exceptions related to the impact of Covid-19.

Moreover, so far there has been no indication of any revised practice or policy in regards to evaluating failures to comply with the RO based on H&C reasons. That said, obviously a delay in returning to Canada due to the impact of the global pandemic is a factor that MUST be considered when a PR seeks H&C relief. (Previous and continuing law REQUIRES consideration of ANY and ALL H&C reasons before a PR's status is terminated due to a failure to comply with the RO; obviously, difficulty traveling due to Covid-19 is such a relevant consideration.)

. . . 2 out of 5 years, 146 days per year on average, over 5 years... Thank you, I'm an engineer, I know how to count...
Well, I renewed my PR card in October 2019, 6 months before COVID so technically I still have ample time to meet RO before October 2024 but so far I have accumulated only 40 days in 1.5 years

The date you renewed your PR card has NO RELEVANCE.

I do not mean to be rude, but being able to count is not, so to say, the-half-of-it. Knowing what counts is key. As noted above, and as others have observed with some emphasis, the PR Residency Obligation is based on being IN Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years. As noted, it is a 2/5 rule.

If, for example, you board a flight to Canada tomorrow, and upon arrival border officials question your compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, that will be based on how many days you have been IN Canada since March 15, 2016.


Assessing the weight of H&C relief based on Covid-19 travel-related difficulties:

A point others have attempted to highlight is that travel-related difficulties due to Covid-19 cannot explain, let alone be an excuse for, THREE years of absence from Canada.

While there some merit to that, their approach tends to underestimate how H&C related explanations are in practice assessed, with a key focus being on reasons for not returning to Canada sooner. Overall time outside Canada is relevant, an important factor, but if an absence from Canada ends up longer, due to an intervening cause delaying the PR's return to Canada, that has at least as much if not much more weight.

That is, a cause delaying a return to Canada for just a few months can be a sufficient *excuse* (so to say) warranting H&C relief . . . but that very much depends on many other factors, the biggest one being just how soon after the imposed delay the PR actually returns to Canada.

Beyond that, trying to forecast how it will actually go, when a PR is examined for RO compliance and is relying on H&C relief to support a decision NOT to terminate PR status, it not only gets complicated, subject to the highly complex interaction of many variables, in many respects it becomes exceedingly speculative due to the contingent nature of several of those variables.

That said, some H&C cases are somewhat easy:

-- Removed-as-a-minor PRs applying soon after attaining the age of minority have very good odds​

-- New (less than five years since landing) PRs have decent odds if they have reasonably established ties in Canada and are only a little in breach of the RO​

-- -- this is probably (it is not for-sure, but seems likely) especially true in the current situation, for new PRs briefly delayed beyond the limits of RO, for whom Covid-19 travel difficulties explains, in at least significant part, why the fell a little short​

-- in contrast, for PRs who fall way short of meeting the RO, the odds of successfully keeping PR status tend to dramatically decline the more they have been outside Canada, or the more their primary ties are outside Canada​

To be clear, any PR who has failed to comply with the RO is AT RISK for losing PR status. The 2/5 rule is considered to be liberal and lenient enough to accommodate virtually any situation which might cause an immigrant PERMANENTLY settling in Canada to be outside Canada for an extended period of time. While Canadian officials have not so stated, it seems obvious this is what underlies the absence of any particular practice or policy addressing RO enforcement relative to the impact of Covid-19 . . . the 2/5 rule is liberal enough to accommodate for absences due to the travel-related difficulties the pandemic has caused.

Which very much leads back to the observations by both @Copingwithlife and @canuck78, in effect emphasizing that even if Covid-19 is the reason for not returning to Canada sooner, that is only about one year, whereas the RO allows PRs to be abroad for up to THREE years within the last five. That is, the RO is liberal enough that a PR should be able to easily return to Canada before being outside Canada so long as to be in breach of the RO despite the impact of Covid-19.


Some additional emphasis is warranted here, given these remarks:

Plus, the fact that Canada, at the other end, forbids stays shorter than 14 days, even for PR, makes it quite more difficult to accumulate time, as it means taking minimum 2 weeks vacation for any stay. Should there be no such restrictions, I would take days here and there to come for long weekends, and accumulate the 730 days. This is now impossible, due to travel restrictions... And now, it is becoming impossible to meet RO without fully relocating to Canada.

I previously observed: "the RO is liberal enough that a PR should be able to easily return to Canada before being outside Canada so long as to be in breach of the RO despite the impact of Covid-19."

It would be more on point, more accurate, to say that "the RO is liberal enough that a PR WHO IS PERMANENTLY SETTLED IN Canada should be able to easily return to Canada before being outside Canada so long as to be in breach of the RO despite the impact of Covid-19."

Which brings up scores and scores of topics in this forum discussing H&C cases. And scores and scores of IAD and some Federal Court decisions which emphasize that the purpose of granting PR status is so the individual can PERMANENTLY SETTLE in Canada.

So, make no mistake, the liberal PR RO is NOT intended to facilitate living abroad, or even a balance of living in Canada and abroad. It is so you can PERMANENTLY SETTLE in Canada EVEN IF you encounter circumstances in life requiring you to spend an extended period of time abroad . . . up to three years in five.

So, make no mistake, what the law will ALLOW, absence from Canada for up to 1096 days within any five year time period, is NOT what the law intends.

Which brings this discussion to crossing the threshold past what the law ALLOWS, to what happens when a PR falls short of meeting the RO. As a matter of law, that makes the PR "Inadmissible." That's a big deal, at least for any PR who wants to continue being a Canadian PR.

Without drilling further into this side of the equation, since there are plenty of discussions in this forum amply doing so, bottom-line is that once you pass that threshold and are short of being in compliance with the RO, a history of barely meeting the RO, and especially a residential or work history that does not indicate settling in Canada PERMANENTLY, is almost certainly going to have a big NEGATIVE impact on how H&C reasons are weighed in a plea to keep PR status despite a breach of the RO.

So yeah . . . it may very well become "impossible to meet RO without fully relocating to Canada."

So, finally . . .

Just wanted to point out that no, things are not as simple as "Canadian PRs are still free to travel to Canada" . . .

Sorry, again I do not want to be rude, but frankly "duh." Canadian PR travel abroad is subject to the RO. It is NOT "free" to travel to the extent of allowing PRs to live outside Canada. Canadian PR is granted so the individual can settle permanently in Canada (this not my view; this is explicitly stated by IAD panels and Federal Court justices in official interpretations and applications of the law). And for anyone who might be a little perplexed about this, look no further than the protection of travel rights in the Charter: those provisions explicitly distinguish the travel rights of PRs, LIMITING the protection of such rights to travel WITHIN Canada.

 

[SHFR]

Thank you for the long, detailed explanation! It shows that I am at serious risk as I thought the 2 years out of 5 were just evaluated at the time of PR card renewal application. Anyway, I am planning to relocate towards end of th year, if still possible. The thing is that, when travel restrictions started, I was meeting the RO (which allowed me to renew PR card at the time) but now, I no longer do as I accumulated so few days in the past year. And one big reason for being short is these limitations. Otherwise, as explained, with the many vacation days I am granted here, plus optimizations (public holidays, week-ends, business trips,...), I would have been able to still meet them. So I hope IRCC would consider this and the fact that being relocated to Toronto by my canadian employer proves the will to live in Canada. I work abroad for a canadian company but because the previous move, from Canada to France, was at my request and had no defined term, this won't count as time in Canada. Worst case, I will stay here most of the year and only enjoy summertime in Canada as a tourist... I don't really miss your winters...

 

[DinoCPR]

It is 730 days. Travel has been possible although more difficult during covid. Covid has also only been an issue for 1 year so covid wouldn't be a reason not to meet your RO.

@canuck78 I logged just to reply to your illogical question (which keeps getting repeated over and over again across this site). If Covid happened during the 1st one year and ppl had 2 normal years after then your question is valid not the other way around.
1. Canada travel policy says "Avoid all non essential travel outside Canada" and defines non essential travel as "It is up to you to decide what “non-essential travel” means". So what happens to people who left Canada before covid? is Travelling to Canada for non essential purpose is it ok?
2. UK travel policy says "You should not travel to amber list countries or territories." and Canada is an amber country.
3. When I signed up to the PR RO rules, they did not warn me of additional hotel quarantine expenses that I should bear JUST bcos of THEIR new rules
4. Finally the most important point of all is "any travel during this time should be avoided by everyone", if not, its an irresponsible thing to do. What if I get covid and pass it on to your parents while travelling to Canada to meet RO rules (and your parents take seriously ill or die?) is that worth me travelling to just fulfil my RO?
Nobody is trying to trick Canada and get more time to stay outside, its the situation caused by Covid, however small it is still an impact. If hotel quarantine costs £2000 more and 2 extra months to get a job thats a lost opportunity of £12000 (almost $25000 cad), who should take that hit and why? The government, me or will you?
THINK before you blurt your narrow minded thoughts online. (Iam bracing for more illogical quabble from you, but you will promptly ignored)

 

[Copingwithlife]

2 out of 5 years, 146 days per year on average, over 5 years... Thank you, I'm an engineer, I know how to count...
Well, I renewed my PR card in October 2019, 6 months before COVID so technically I still have ample time to meet RO before October 2024 but so far I have accumulated only 40 days in 1.5 years, I had to cancel/rebook 5 times travel plans to Canada and I have no clue when French government will allow me to travel to Canada again... Also, even with vaccines, it is quite likely that travel limitations will span over 2-3 years minimum...
Plus, the fact that Canada, at the other end, forbids stays shorter than 14 days, even for PR, makes it quite more difficult to accumulate time, as it means taking minimum 2 weeks vacation for any stay. Should there be no such restrictions, I would take days here and there to come for long weekends, and accumulate the 730 days. This is now impossible, due to travel restrictions... And now, it is becoming impossible to meet RO without fully relocating to Canada. OK, I may do it eventually...
Just wanted to point out that no, things are not as simple as "Canadian PRs are still free to travel to Canada" and "Travel has been possible although more difficult during covid". With limitations on both sides (CA and remote country), it is hard, for reasons beyond my control, and I would appreciate that canadian authorities take this into account

Oh wow, you’re a engineer ? And you’re proficient in counting , good. But you didn’t know the rules for the PR you have and or applied for .
Oh, the definition of “ Permanent “
As for the reasons TLDR
These postings on not meeting RO , 2/5, just show Canada should move towards the American RO policy .

If you are abroad for 6 months or more per year, you risk “abandoning” your green card. This is especially true after multiple prolonged absences or after a prior warning by a U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officer at the airport.

 

[dpenabill]

@canuck78 I logged just to reply to your illogical question (which keeps getting repeated over and over again across this site). If Covid happened during the 1st one year and ppl had 2 normal years after then your question is valid not the other way around.

Nobody is trying to trick Canada and get more time to stay outside, its the situation caused by Covid, however small it is still an impact.
[full quote below]

The basic proposition expressed by @canuck78, and more than a few others, which you quote and erroneously label a "question," and erroneously describe as "illogical," is fundamentally accurate and, actually, important. For any PRs abroad weighing their options, wrestling with making decisions about if and when to return to Canada, for whom keeping PR status is a priority, it would be a mistake to not recognize and understand this.

That is not to dismiss or demean the hardship PRs abroad have encountered in making such decisions during this pandemic. And as I have well-noted, before a PR who is inadmissible due to a failure to comply with the RO is issued a Removal Order or a Visa Office decision denying a PR TD (that is, decisions terminating the individual's PR status for failing to comply with the RO), the officer must and will consider all the relevant factors which had an impact on how long the PR remained abroad, and if there are sufficient H&C reasons, will allow the PR to retain status DESPITE being inadmissible for a breach of the RO.

But to be clear, regardless the reason, a PR who fails to comply with the Residency Obligation is inadmissible. As a matter of law. As prescribed by Subsection 41(b) IRPA https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-9.html#docCont

Determining whether a PR has breached the RO is just arithmetic (counting days) and geography (geographical location of PR). There is no Covid exception.

Despite a breach of the RO, officers can exercise their discretion to allow the PR H&C relief, allowing the inadmissible PR to keep PR status. The impact of Covid will be, must be, taken into consideration in determining whether an inadmissible PR should be allowed H&C relief. However, PRs abroad will be prudent to not overestimate the weight Covid-related difficulties might have in making the H&C case. In particular, there is no suggestion, either from IRCC communications, or from anecdotal reports, that there is or will be any blanket policy to give PRs credit, or otherwise give a pass, for time abroad during the pandemic. In contrast, there is every indication that the total amount of time abroad, compared to days in Canada, will continue to be the dominant factor.

So any PR still abroad and now in breach of the RO should recognize that Covid might not save their PR status . . . recognizing, for example, as @canuck78 and others have accurately noted, Covid is not an excuse covering the time abroad prior to the pandemic. And such PRs should thus make decisions accordingly. Per their own priorities and judgment. Recognizing that the sooner they come to Canada to stay, the better chance they have of keeping PR. Their decision. Their call.

It warrants noting that in evaluating H&C reasons, the nature and extent of the PR's time and ties in Canada are balanced against the nature and extent of the PR's time and ties abroad. For PRs who were living abroad, or otherwise spending extended periods of time abroad, prior to the beginning of the pandemic, the dynamics of this equation pose a substantial risk there will be a negative outcome. It is one thing to rely on what the law allows and very much a different thing to seek discretionary humanitarian and compassionate relief for failing to meet the obligations imposed by law. This is especially applicable in regards to the PR RO, which is not intended to facilitate living or working abroad, even though it ALLOWS PRs to do so for up to three years in five . . . for those who press the boundaries, it can make a huge difference if they stay on the In-Compliance side of the equation versus going past the RO threshold and being in breach. The former gets the benefit of what the law allows. Those in breach can anticipate bureaucrats might weigh things quite differently, with significant weight given to the purpose of the grant of PR status and the extent to which the PR has, or more to the point, has NOT, settled PERMANENTLY in Canada.

That is, make no mistake, the PR who was living abroad for two years just before the pandemic, for example, relying on the RO to have time to return to Canada, and who then fails to return to Canada in time to meet the RO due to Covid-19, is very much at risk for not getting a pass because of Covid and thus losing PR status. While other factors will have influence in how it goes, those years living abroad can cast a rather long shadow.

All of which is about how things work, not about how they should work in, say, this or that person's idea of what is a fair and just world. For those PRs trying to navigate their options, frankly recognizing and dealing practically with the real risks is a critical part of the decision-making process, recognizing that some of the decision-making can be a difficult call. And in this regard, the post by @canuck78 you quoted made a fundamental observation very much relevant for any PR abroad and now in breach of the RO.

@canuck78 I logged just to reply to your illogical question (which keeps getting repeated over and over again across this site). If Covid happened during the 1st one year and ppl had 2 normal years after then your question is valid not the other way around.
1. Canada travel policy says "Avoid all non essential travel outside Canada" and defines non essential travel as "It is up to you to decide what “non-essential travel” means". So what happens to people who left Canada before covid? is Travelling to Canada for non essential purpose is it ok?
2. UK travel policy says "You should not travel to amber list countries or territories." and Canada is an amber country.
3. When I signed up to the PR RO rules, they did not warn me of additional hotel quarantine expenses that I should bear JUST bcos of THEIR new rules
4. Finally the most important point of all is "any travel during this time should be avoided by everyone", if not, its an irresponsible thing to do. What if I get covid and pass it on to your parents while travelling to Canada to meet RO rules (and your parents take seriously ill or die?) is that worth me travelling to just fulfil my RO?
Nobody is trying to trick Canada and get more time to stay outside, its the situation caused by Covid, however small it is still an impact. If hotel quarantine costs £2000 more and 2 extra months to get a job thats a lost opportunity of £12000 (almost $25000 cad), who should take that hit and why? The government, me or will you?
THINK before you blurt your narrow minded thoughts online. (Iam bracing for more illogical quabble from you, but you will promptly ignored)