Ontario birth registration vs birth certificate with cit 0001

[ebainbridge]

My father was born in 1915 in Toronto. I was born in the USA in 1944 and am applying for citizenship by descent. The problem is that I don't have my father's birth certificate. However I do have I have his certified birth registration that Ontario sent me in 1996 (marked "Extract of Original Record"). Will the CIC accept his birth registration in lieu of his birth certificate? I've read that it's acceptable for Ontario births on Canadian passport applications, but I haven't found any answers for the cit 0001.

When the Canadian consulate in San Francisco made certified true copies of the birth registration, they warned me that it doesn't match anything in their database.

I haven't been able to get his birth certificate because I don't have a Canadian guarantor and people I know in the USA who would have qualified as references are now retired and therefore no longer eligible to be a reference.
.
One other question: My father's family emigrated to the USA in 1924, when he was 9, and he became a naturalized US citizen with his family in 1934 at age 19. I don't think this is a problem, but if it is, I hope someone will tell me.

My cit 0001 is complete and ready to send. I just hope to learn first whether sending my father's birth registration instead of his birth certificate will be a problem.

Thanks!

 

[spyfy]

One other question: My father's family emigrated to the USA in 1924, when he was 9, and he became a naturalized US citizen with his family in 1934 at age 19. I don't think this is a problem, but if it is, I hope someone will tell me.

Some other experts on this should chime in but this actually might be a problem.

You were born in 1944 before the "Canadian Citizenship Act 1946" came into effect and your father acquired US citizenship BEFORE your birth.

You could have acquired Canadian Citizenship at two moments in time:

• Either when that act came into force on January 1, 1947
• Or in 2008/2009 when changes to the citizenship act retroactively granted citizenship to some individuals who "fell through the system" (so called lost Canadians).

Regarding the first option, this is section 4 of the act that came into force on Jan 1, 1947:

4 A person, born before the commencement of this Act, is a natural-born Canadian citizen:—
(a) if he was born in Canada or on a Canadian ship and has not become an alien at the commencement of this Act; or
(b) If he was born outside of Canada elsewhere than on a Canadian ship and his father, or in the ease of a person bom out of wedlock, his mother
(i) was born in Canada or on a Canadian ship and had not become an alien at the time of that person's birth, or
(ii) was, at the time of that person’s birth, a British subject who had Canadian domicile,
if, at the commencement of this Act, that person has not become an alien, and has either been lawfully admitted to Canada for permanent residence or Is a minor.

4(a) and 4(b)(ii) clearly don't apply to you. So the only option would be 4(b)(i). But your father in fact became an alien (a US citizen) before you were born.

In fact, even if you were granted citizenship through that clause, you were a minor when the act took effect, so section 6 also applies to you which reads:

6 Notwithstanding anything contained in section four or section five of this Act, a person who is, at the commence ment of the Act, a minor born outside of Canada elsewhere than on a Canadian ship and who has not been lawfully admitted to Canada for permanent residence, or who is bom after the commencement of this Act and outside of Canada elsewhere than on a Canadian ship, shall cease to be a Canadian citizen upon the expiration of one year after he attains the age of twenty-one years unless after attaining that age and before the expiration of the said year
(a) he asserts his Canadian citizenship by a declaration of retention thereof, registered in accordance with the regulations; and
(b) if he is a national or citizen of a country other than Canada under the law of which he can, at the time of asserting his Canadian citizenship, divest himself of the nationality or citizenship of that country by making a declaration of alienage or otherwise, he divests him self of such nationality or citizenship.

So long story short:
- Because your dad naturalized as a US citizen before your birth you didn't acquire citizenship at birth because he became an alien before your birth.
- Even if you became a citizen at birth, since you were a minor born outside of Canada when the act came into force, you would have had to make a declaration AND renounce US citizenship within one year of your 21st birthday (by 1969) to keep citizenship.

Regarding the second option (the 2008/2009 bill), as far as I know these retroactive changes only applied to cases of people who were born after 1947. People born before 1947 were not affected by these regulations at all.

Again, it might be good if someone else chimes in and confirms or refutes what I wrote above, but from how I understand the case, you did not get Citizenship by descent. What makes this such a clear case in my opinion is that your dad actually acquired US citizenship. If he moved to the states but never actually acquired US citizenship (at least not formally/to his knowledge), this might be a different story. It might also be a whole different story if you were born in 1947 or later because then some of these retroactive changes could have affected you.

You can find the Citizenship Act 1946 here:
https://historyofrights.ca/archives/statutes-declarations/

 

[hawk39]

Some other experts on this should chime in but this actually might be a problem.

I'm not an expert, but to my understanding, dual citizenship was not recognized when the 1947 Act was established, hence the language saying that by naturalizing or being an alien in another country meant losing Canadian citizenship. But when dual citizenship was recognized in the 1977 legislation, that language could have been voided. So if that is true, when the legislations regarding "lost Canadians" came about, the OP's father regained his citizenship under paragraph 3(1)(k), which applies to those born as British subjects prior to the 1947 Act; and the OP got his/her citizenship under paragraph 3(1)(o), which applies to children born abroad prior to the 1947 Act to citizens that gained status through 3(1)(k). Like I said though, I'm not an expert or have any legal background, so for a definitive answer, the OP might have to consult a Canadian lawyer about this.

However I do have I have his certified birth registration that Ontario sent me in 1996 (marked "Extract of Original Record"). Will the CIC accept his birth registration in lieu of his birth certificate? I've read that it's acceptable for Ontario births on Canadian passport applications, but I haven't found any answers for the cit 0001.

I haven't been able to get his birth certificate because I don't have a Canadian guarantor and people I know in the USA who would have qualified as references are now retired and therefore no longer eligible to be a reference.
.
My cit 0001 is complete and ready to send. I just hope to learn first whether sending my father's birth registration instead of his birth certificate will be a problem.

I think you should contact IRCC through their webform and ask if the certified copy of the birth registration is acceptable. If they say it is acceptable, then make sure to print out a copy of their response and attach it to the certified copy of the birth registration when you mail your cit-0001 application. If it is not acceptable, then you'll need to obtain your father's birth certificate; as with the IRCC, I think you should contact ServiceOntario through e-mail and ask if the retired professionals you have in mind can still serve as guarantors. I believe that most likely they would say yes as long as you and the guarantors write very detailed letters of explanation, and be sure to include of copy of their response with your birth certificate application. Good luck

 

[ebainbridge]

Because your dad naturalized as a US citizen before your birth you didn't acquire citizenship at birth because he became an alien before your birth.

I very much hope you're not right! Becoming a citizen means a lot to me. However I appreciate your detailed reply and will investigate it.

The OP's father regained his citizenship under paragraph 3(1)(k) ...

This was my understanding of the law, but I have never been confident of it and have worried about my father's US naturalization. My CIT 0001 is ready to send, so rather than pay to consult an attorney, I'm inclined to just send the CIT 0001. I've already paid for the photos and certified true copies, and I've paid my $75 fee, so I don't really have anything to lose.

I think you should contact IRCC through their webform and ask if the certified copy of the birth registration is acceptable. If they say it is acceptable, then make sure to print out a copy of their response and attach it to the certified copy of the birth registration when you mail your cit-0001 application.

I considered this, but the webform says to use it only after an application has been submitted, and there doesn't seem to be a provision for simply answering questions. I've tried phoning them, but the phone line for calls from outside Canada has been disconnected. They are now accepting phone calls only from inside Canada. I am in California. If there's anything here I'm misunderstanding, I hope you'll correct me.

Thank you spyfy and hawk39 for your replies!

 

[hawk39]

I've used the webform before I submitted my cit-0001 and got a response, hence why I recommended it, Just select the best options that fit the description of your question. I selected "Citizenship" from type of application, then "Citizenship - Proof" from type of enquiry continued. Then pose your question in the following large field. When it asks for UCI and application numbers, I put in all 0's since I didn't not have one yet. Quoted response time is 10 days, but I got my response in 4.

If you want to try calling, did you try calling Global Affairs Canada? They can transfer you to IRCC, but since you are outside of Canada, you have to use the long-distance number 613-944-4000. It's best to call early in the morning; I've called in the afternoon and my wait time was about 30 minutes.

I would stick with the webform though; this way you would have a paper trail to include with the application if they say the birth registration is acceptable.

 

[ebainbridge]

Thank you for the suggestion, hawk39. I've just submitted my question on the webform. I had planned on sending my CIT-0001 today, but now I'll wait to get a reply. However I am concerned whether they will reply - the email confirmation I received seems to say that, like on the webform, they only reply if I've already submitted my application. I'd hate to wait another ten days and receive nothing. It's already been a month since I paid my $75 fee.

I also tried calling the 613-944-4000 phone number. It's the same number I've tried in the past. They seem to be changing how it works. A few months ago, I'd be put in a queue when I called, but I never had the time to wait for it. Then a few weeks ago, it simply stopped connecting and I read that they had stopped taking phone calls from outside Canada. Now it seems to have changed again. The Citizenship option leads to a list of information, and finally to an option to speak to a representative, but when I selected it, I got a message that I was being disconnected because too many people were calling (I forget the exact wording).

 

[spyfy]

I very much hope you're not right! Becoming a citizen means a lot to me. However I appreciate your detailed reply and will investigate it.


This was my understanding of the law, but I have never been confident of it and have worried about my father's US naturalization. My CIT 0001 is ready to send, so rather than pay to consult an attorney, I'm inclined to just send the CIT 0001. I've already paid for the photos and certified true copies, and I've paid my $75 fee, so I don't really have anything to lose.


I considered this, but the webform says to use it only after an application has been submitted, and there doesn't seem to be a provision for simply answering questions. I've tried phoning them, but the phone line for calls from outside Canada has been disconnected. They are now accepting phone calls only from inside Canada. I am in California. If there's anything here I'm misunderstanding, I hope you'll correct me.

Thank you spyfy and hawk39 for your replies!

I very much hope that I'm not right, too!

Hawk39 raised some valid detail s that I missed and as you say: you have nothing to lose but some time and 75 bucks. So trying it can't hurt.

Good luck!

 

[alphazip]

Ebainbridge, due to legislation that became effective in 2009 and 2015, virtually every child of a Canadian-born parent is now a Canadian citizen. That includes you. The fact that your father lost his British subject status in 1934 and did not become a Canadian citizen in 1947 no longer (as of 2015)matters.

As stated here (https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/act-changes/rules-2009-2015.html):

In 2015, you became a Canadian citizen if you were:
-born or naturalized in Canada before January 1, 1947, but stopped being a British subject and didn’t become a citizen on that date [YOUR FATHER]
-born outside Canada in the first generation before January 1, 1947, to a parent described above [YOU]

(BTW, if you see the word "renounced," that means formally renounced to Canadian authorities, not just the routine taking of U.S. citizenship.)

As to your original question, yes, the registration of your father's birth ("Extract of Original Record") that you received from the Ontario government in 1996 is perfectly acceptable.

 

[ebainbridge]

Ebainbridge, due to legislation that became effective in 2009 and 2015, virtually every child of a Canadian-born parent is now a Canadian citizen. That includes you. The fact that your father lost his British subject status in 1934 and did not become a Canadian citizen in 1947 no longer (as of 2015)matters ... As to your original question, yes, the registration of your father's birth ("Extract of Original Record") that you received from the Ontario government in 1996 is perfectly acceptable.

Thank you. That was my original understanding about my eligibility. However I learned a long time ago that there can be so many hidden clauses and exceptions in the law that I won't fully believe it until I get my citizenship certificate.

I hope you're right about the birth registration. It makes sense to me, especially because an Ontario birth registration does qualify for a passport, but since both the Canadian consulate in San Francisco and the Archives of Ontario did not recognize it as a valid document, I've been very concerned. It's odd, because the Ontario Registrar General sent it to me 22 years ago as a certified birth registration. I'm hoping the problem is just that it's old and doesn't look like what's being issued today.

 

[alphazip]

Some other experts on this should chime in but this actually might be a problem.

You were born in 1944 before the "Canadian Citizenship Act 1946" came into effect and your father acquired US citizenship BEFORE your birth.

You could have acquired Canadian Citizenship at two moments in time:

• Either when that act came into force on January 1, 1947
• Or in 2008/2009 when changes to the citizenship act retroactively granted citizenship to some individuals who "fell through the system" (so called lost Canadians).

Regarding the first option, this is section 4 of the act that came into force on Jan 1, 1947:

4 A person, born before the commencement of this Act, is a natural-born Canadian citizen:—
(a) if he was born in Canada or on a Canadian ship and has not become an alien at the commencement of this Act; or
(b) If he was born outside of Canada elsewhere than on a Canadian ship and his father, or in the ease of a person bom out of wedlock, his mother
(i) was born in Canada or on a Canadian ship and had not become an alien at the time of that person's birth, or
(ii) was, at the time of that person’s birth, a British subject who had Canadian domicile,
if, at the commencement of this Act, that person has not become an alien, and has either been lawfully admitted to Canada for permanent residence or Is a minor.

4(a) and 4(b)(ii) clearly don't apply to you. So the only option would be 4(b)(i). But your father in fact became an alien (a US citizen) before you were born.

In fact, even if you were granted citizenship through that clause, you were a minor when the act took effect, so section 6 also applies to you which reads:

6 Notwithstanding anything contained in section four or section five of this Act, a person who is, at the commence ment of the Act, a minor born outside of Canada elsewhere than on a Canadian ship and who has not been lawfully admitted to Canada for permanent residence, or who is bom after the commencement of this Act and outside of Canada elsewhere than on a Canadian ship, shall cease to be a Canadian citizen upon the expiration of one year after he attains the age of twenty-one years unless after attaining that age and before the expiration of the said year
(a) he asserts his Canadian citizenship by a declaration of retention thereof, registered in accordance with the regulations; and
(b) if he is a national or citizen of a country other than Canada under the law of which he can, at the time of asserting his Canadian citizenship, divest himself of the nationality or citizenship of that country by making a declaration of alienage or otherwise, he divests him self of such nationality or citizenship.

So long story short:
- Because your dad naturalized as a US citizen before your birth you didn't acquire citizenship at birth because he became an alien before your birth.
- Even if you became a citizen at birth, since you were a minor born outside of Canada when the act came into force, you would have had to make a declaration AND renounce US citizenship within one year of your 21st birthday (by 1969) to keep citizenship.

Regarding the second option (the 2008/2009 bill), as far as I know these retroactive changes only applied to cases of people who were born after 1947. People born before 1947 were not affected by these regulations at all.

Again, it might be good if someone else chimes in and confirms or refutes what I wrote above, but from how I understand the case, you did not get Citizenship by descent. What makes this such a clear case in my opinion is that your dad actually acquired US citizenship. If he moved to the states but never actually acquired US citizenship (at least not formally/to his knowledge), this might be a different story. It might also be a whole different story if you were born in 1947 or later because then some of these retroactive changes could have affected you.

You can find the Citizenship Act 1946 here:
https://historyofrights.ca/archives/statutes-declarations/

Good research, but please be aware that as of 2015, 99.9% of people born to a Canadian-born parent now have Canadian citizenship. It doesn't matter when the parent was born, when they left Canada, who they married, when they took foreign citizenship, etc.

The legislation that became effective in 2009 did not fully address the "Lost Canadian" issue, so additional legislation was passed (effective 2015) that did so. This means that nowadays the only real exceptions are people whose Canadian parent formally renounced his/her citizenship to Canadian authorities before the birth of the child, or people whose parent was born to someone employed by a foreign government. Therefore, the default answer for anyone inquiring as to whether he/she is a Canadian citizen, due to having a Canadian-born parent, is yes.

 

[alphazip]

Thank you. That was my original understanding about my eligibility. However I learned a long time ago that there can be so many hidden clauses and exceptions in the law that I won't fully believe it until I get my citizenship certificate.

I hope you're right about the birth registration. It makes sense to me, especially because an Ontario birth registration does qualify for a passport, but since both the Canadian consulate in San Francisco and the Archives of Ontario did not recognize it as a valid document, I've been very concerned. It's odd, because the Ontario Registrar General sent it to me 22 years ago as a certified birth registration. I'm hoping the problem is just that it's old and doesn't look like what's being issued today.

As I recall, what I sent as proof of my father's birth in Ontario was a document I received from the Ontario Registrar General that looked like they had taken a copy of the original handwritten registration from 1920 and incorporated it into a modern document. I think that's the type of "extract" you're talking about.

 

[ebainbridge]

what I sent as proof of my father's birth in Ontario was a document I received from the Ontario Registrar General that looked like they had taken a copy of the original handwritten registration from 1920 and incorporated it into a modern document. I think that's the type of "extract" you're talking about.

Actually, no. The certified registration that Ontario sent me in 1996 is printed. I've attached an image of it with identifying information blacked out. The consulate was so certain that this would not be acceptable for citizenship that they did not charge a fee for the three certified true copies they made of it (my sister and brother might also apply after I'm successful).

A few weeks ago I sent for the handwritten copy that you described, so I have both, but there's a complication. I thought the Archives was going to send me a certified birth registration, but they actually sent me a certified true copy. The reason this may be a problem is that I don't want to send the original they sent me, but I'm not sure I can have a certified true copy made of a certified true copy - at the consulate, they told me they can only do it for original documents.

I also don't really want to take a second day off from working to make another trek into San Francisco to the consulate, so I may just send the certified true copy I already have of the 1996 printed birth registration. It would be a lot more convenient and less expensive for me to use that, but after the consulate told me it probably wasn't acceptable and Archives of Ontario told me that they didn't recognize it, I'm feeling very uncertain..

 

[alphazip]

Actually, no. The certified registration that Ontario sent me in 1996 is printed. A few weeks ago I sent for the handwritten copy that you described, so I have both, but there's a complication. I thought the Archives was going to send me a certified birth registration, but they actually sent me a certified true copy. The reason this may be a problem is that I don't want to send the original they sent me, but I'm not sure I can have a certified true copy made of a certified true copy - at the consulate, they told me they can only do it for original documents.

I also don't really want to take a second day off from working to make another trek into San Francisco to the consulate, so I may just send the certified true copy I already have of the 1996 printed birth registration. I already have three certified true copies of it (my sister and brother might also apply after I'm successful).

This is why it's important for me to find out whether the 1996 printed birth registration is acceptable. I'm attaching a copy of what Ontario sent me in 1996, with identifying information blacked out.

I've never seen anything that looks exactly like that either, but since it was issued by the Ontario Registrar General, it's sure to be accepted. It wouldn't hurt to make a copy of the original handwritten version and include that too, though it shouldn't be necessary.

 

[ebainbridge]

I've used the webform before I submitted my cit-0001 and got a response, hence why I recommended it.

I did what you suggested and have just received a reply. It's just a generic reply, not answering my question at all. I guess I'll go ahead and submit my CIT-0001 using the printed birth registration that Ontario sent me in 1996. Neither the consulate nor Archives of Ontario recognized it as a valid form, but it is a certified birth registration for my father, so I would think it should be acceptable. Maybe it's just a very old format. I've attached an image of it, with identifying information redacted.

 

[ebainbridge]

Thanks to all of you who replied to my questions. My citizenship certificate was mailed on Oct 1. I am now a Canadian citizen!

In case it helps someone, I sent only the printed copy of my father's birth registration (shown earlier in this thread) and not the original hand-written birth registration or a birth certificate.

Canadian citizenship something I've wanted all my life. I always feel at home in Canada. I don't know whether I'll ever move to Canada (though the current political climate in the US may change that), but I love that I now have the option and that when I visit Canada again, it will be as a Canadian. On previous visits, people have so often told me I seemed more Canadian than American, but that was before the 2015 changes in the law made me eligible. This is really exciting!