October 11th 2017 - Citizenship Applicants under 3/5 rule

[cn2017]

I raised the same question to the IRCC agent: I had just renewed my PR in the fall, and I had updated my Nexus recently, both of would require the background checks and they were done within a week or less.... but the IRCC agent would say: but this is for citizenship and the procedures are different and wouldn't say how... so basically if you have potential tie to criminal or terrorists it would be OK to let you be a PR and take flights with less strict security search? How does that even make sense...

You are right, it doesn't make sense, but nothing they do or say makes sense anyway.

 

[cn2017]

It is not the background check that takes time, it's the due date they mark your application with. For instance, they run a preliminary background check (answer actually comes back in seconds) and they receive a warning or something of that sort (probably due to your country of origin, a lot of travels, name mismatch, related to someone with troubles, etc), so they call for a more detailed one. However, at the same time they call for the detailed check, and for some strange different reason with each agent, they mark your application for future due processing in 1 month, 2 monthjs, 6 months, 8 months, 1 year, etc. This way, your application sits in a queue now waiting for its turn till the due date comes, even though the result of detailed background check has come through already. Another agent picks up your application on the due date, but realizes that something extra still needs to be done, issues another background check and marks your application with another due date in 6 months, 1 year, and so on and so on.

Reality is some agents take their job more seriously than others. My ATIP notes show that the last time my application was updated by anyone was last year in May. Only thing pending was security check, and they decided to mark my application for the next due date this upcoming March. Does that mean it will get processed and I get called for my test? Not necessarily, since my ATIP notes show that they already scheduled me last year in March for a test, but for some reason (without any mention why on the notes), the new agent decided to cancel that request and mark my due date for next year.

Can I do anything about this? So far I tried everything I can, I am frustrated, angry, and sad. There is nothing we can do, we are the mercy of some agent's hands out there who will one day decide to speed up the process, or keep postponing our processing dates.

Yet, I still wish good luck to all of us still waiting for a long time.

I haven't left the country since I got here, there is not much to check and I know that excuse doesn't work for my case, so what they are saying is pure BS. I'm a victim of profiling most likely and so are several other people who are still waiting without any reason (the call it non routine so you think there is a reason for their stealing from their work that taxpayers pay for). However, I am going to give them exactly two years and if things don't move I will not sit and wait longer, if I have to go to prime minister for justice I will and not just for me but for anyone in my situation. What they are doing is discrimination and against human rights.

 

[ersar]

None!

Expired passport means less travel hence less background check - it may make the process faster but certainly not slower. If that's what they told you you can be sure it was another BS they say. Are you waiting for the test?

I checked Ecas today and my status says DM. I had test in October. So 5 months almost after test. Who knows how much for oath!

 

[SunnyWays]

Hi Everyone! a quick update,
finally the road to citizenship has ended for me and I am one proud Canadian Citizen, hope all of you who are waiting get your citizenship as soon as possible, God Bless You all,
special thanks to @razerblade @qorax and @dpenabill

 

[Capricorn2012]

Hello everyone
I had my citizenship test this
Morning and I passed
Any idea when can I expect oath ceremony
They said it can take 6 to 8 weeks but I have read posts where people have been waiting five months and more

 

[ersar]

Hello everyone
I had my citizenship test this
Morning and I passed
Any idea when can I expect oath ceremony
They said it can take 6 to 8 weeks but I have read posts where people have been waiting five months and more

Really depends. If your status says DM next day 3-4 months depending on the location otherwise will take longer

 

[sarafandee]

Anyone in this thread still waiting for a test invite? If yes, have you tried hiring a lawyer to pursue this? Did it make any difference?

 

[ersar]

Anyone in this thread still waiting for a test invite? If yes, have you tried hiring a lawyer to pursue this? Did it make any difference?

I don’t think hiring a lawyer will be any help. Because IRCC has likely placed you in the non routine category and technically there is no timeline for NR applications. Only after 3 years from the application start lawyer can ask IRCC before a judge to make a decision on your case. All you need to do is being patient. I am also still waiting!

 

[dpenabill]

Actually there is NO timeline for any citizenship applications. IRCC information about citizenship timelines is no more than that: information about how long it MIGHT be expected to take based on how long it has taken in the past.

And there is not really a "non routine category."

"Routine" and "Non routine" are merely descriptive, and in that only distinguish applications for which there has been NO processing transaction in addition to the baseline standard procedures, describing such applications as "routine," VERSUS applications for which there has been ANY processing transaction or event in addition to the baseline standard procedures, describing such applications as "non routine." BUT there is no status or category or classification as such.

What really matters is what is happening in particular. If the application is non routine because there was a request for a new photo or for Fingerprints before the test event, the application can be described as non routine but the impact on the timeline is usually minimal. If in contrast there is a Security concern or full-blown RQ, these too earn the application a non routine description but the impact on the timeline can be huge. And there are numerous other possibilities in-between these extremes.

Generally the distinction between "routine" and "non routine" deserves rather little attention.

And generally, as others wisely say, the emphasis is on patience and waiting and watching for notice from IRCC.


That said . . . some may be approaching the time when legal action, with the help of a competent lawyer, may be worth considering.

I have NOT delved much into the Mandamus possibility in recent years, not since the Harper years when processing nearly came to a halt (and timelines of three and four years were all too common). And until recently there were few hints that applications for Mandamus were at all warranted.

BUT one of the big changes in the law, a Harper change, puts full authority to grant citizenship with the Minister. Under the old law the Minister had no authority to grant citizenship without a Citizenship Judge's approval. So the court's could not order the Minister to grant citizenship. All mandamus could accomplish then was an order compelling the Minister to proceed with processing the application. Now, at least technically, the Federal Court should be able to order the Minister to grant citizenship . . . the problem, of course, is persuading the Federal Court that the law mandates the Minister grant citizenship. (Mandamus can only obtain relief which is clearly mandated by law.)

It is probably still too soon for lawyer-made demand letters, as a prerequisite to an application for Mandamus, to get much traction in moving applications forward more quickly. But it is apparent that scores of applications may be sitting in limbo, and that for many the Minister has all the information necessary to make a decision. Some of those with older applications, the longer pending applicants, might indeed consider consulting with a lawyer if they can afford it. Expensive. Best result likely no more than accelerating the process by weeks or a few months. At best. So probably NOT worth it for most, especially since the more likely result is not accelerating the process much at all. But some of the timelines we are now seeing are beginning to indicate IRCC may be sitting on some applications and it could be time to resort to the courts.

I hesitate to feed the rant parade and I do not encourage applicants to rush toward Mandamus just because the process is taking longer than they anticipated. I am not at all sure that it is time to pursue judicial remedies. But it is worth a reminder that Canada is a rule of law nation in which procedural fairness is a Charter Right, and while there is no right of appeal, applicants are entitled to request leave for judicial review, including by way of applying for special Writs when appropriate. That is, there is recourse if IRCC is denying procedural fairness or the Minister fails to do what the law clearly mandates the Minister to do. (The problem is that many tend to judge what falls short of procedural fairness based on their own expectations and needs, and that is NOT how it works.)

 

[sarafandee]

Actually there is NO timeline for any citizenship applications. IRCC information about citizenship timelines is no more than that: information about how long it MIGHT be expected to take based on how long it has taken in the past.

And there is not really a "non routine category."

"Routine" and "Non routine" are merely descriptive, and in that only distinguish applications for which there has been NO processing transaction in addition to the baseline standard procedures, describing such applications as "routine," VERSUS applications for which there has been ANY processing transaction or event in addition to the baseline standard procedures, describing such applications as "non routine." BUT there is no status or category or classification as such.

What really matters is what is happening in particular. If the application is non routine because there was a request for a new photo or for Fingerprints before the test event, the application can be described as non routine but the impact on the timeline is usually minimal. If in contrast there is a Security concern or full-blown RQ, these too earn the application a non routine description but the impact on the timeline can be huge. And there are numerous other possibilities in-between these extremes.

Generally the distinction between "routine" and "non routine" deserves rather little attention.

And generally, as others wisely say, the emphasis is on patience and waiting and watching for notice from IRCC.


That said . . . some may be approaching the time when legal action, with the help of a competent lawyer, may be worth considering.

I have NOT delved much into the Mandamus possibility in recent years, not since the Harper years when processing nearly came to a halt (and timelines of three and four years were all too common). And until recently there were few hints that applications for Mandamus were at all warranted.

BUT one of the big changes in the law, a Harper change, puts full authority to grant citizenship with the Minister. Under the old law the Minister had no authority to grant citizenship without a Citizenship Judge's approval. So the court's could not order the Minister to grant citizenship. All mandamus could accomplish then was an order compelling the Minister to proceed with processing the application. Now, at least technically, the Federal Court should be able to order the Minister to grant citizenship . . . the problem, of course, is persuading the Federal Court that the law mandates the Minister grant citizenship. (Mandamus can only obtain relief which is clearly mandated by law.)

It is probably still too soon for lawyer-made demand letters, as a prerequisite to an application for Mandamus, to get much traction in moving applications forward more quickly. But it is apparent that scores of applications may be sitting in limbo, and that for many the Minister has all the information necessary to make a decision. Some of those with older applications, the longer pending applicants, might indeed consider consulting with a lawyer if they can afford it. Expensive. Best result likely no more than accelerating the process by weeks or a few months. At best. So probably NOT worth it for most, especially since the more likely result is not accelerating the process much at all. But some of the timelines we are now seeing are beginning to indicate IRCC may be sitting on some applications and it could be time to resort to the courts.

I hesitate to feed the rant parade and I do not encourage applicants to rush toward Mandamus just because the process is taking longer than they anticipated. I am not at all sure that it is time to pursue judicial remedies. But it is worth a reminder that Canada is a rule of law nation in which procedural fairness is a Charter Right, and while there is no right of appeal, applicants are entitled to request leave for judicial review, including by way of applying for special Writs when appropriate. That is, there is recourse if IRCC is denying procedural fairness or the Minister fails to do what the law clearly mandates the Minister to do. (The problem is that many tend to judge what falls short of procedural fairness based on their own expectations and needs, and that is NOT how it works.)

Thank you for your response. After how many months though should one consider hiring a lawyer to pursue this? I received my GCMS notes two weeks ago, and it indicated that the last time an update happened on my application was last year in May, nothing after that. I had the eligibility test scheduled in March 2018, but two days later another update happened and cancelled it with no reason mentioned. Now they set the due date of the eligibility knowledge test to March 2019, I am not so confident though as they can easily push this date further now.

 

[dpenabill]

Thank you for your response. After how many months though should one consider hiring a lawyer to pursue this? I received my GCMS notes two weeks ago, and it indicated that the last time an update happened on my application was last year in May, nothing after that. I had the eligibility test scheduled in March 2018, but two days later another update happened and cancelled it with no reason mentioned. Now they set the due date of the eligibility knowledge test to March 2019, I am not so confident though as they can easily push this date further now.

I am NO expert. I am especially NOT qualified to offer personal advice or opinion.

While it is overstating things some to say that each case is different, and has its own particular facts. The differences are nonetheless many and what is slowing down this or that particular case is very difficult to discern.

For example, a lawyer can help if IRCC has unjustifiably put an application on hold or suspended processing. In contrast, if the local office handling applications is simply way behind schedule and slow overall, there is nothing a lawyer or MP can do to accelerate the process. And of course it can be difficult to know what or why is stalling a particular applicant's process.

So I don't know when is the right time for a particular applicant to get a lawyer involved. Which tends to be expensive.

I expected a sustained slowdown following the implementation of the 3/5 rules, but at this stage the reports in the forum are indicating much slower processing than I had anticipated. For some applicants. What it is actually about is hard to say.

My sense leans in the direction of waiting more to see what develops in the next while. But yeah, some of the timelines appear to be dragging long enough to give the impression something is awry.

 

[ersar]

Today I got the oath letter for this Friday after waiting for almost 17 months. God waiting is so hard but wish everyone good luck

 

[itsmyid]

Today I got the oath letter for this Friday after waiting for almost 17 months. God waiting is so hard but wish everyone good luck

Your oath letter is sent 2 days before the ceremony ????

 

[ersar]

Your oath letter is sent 2 days before the ceremony ????

I got a call from them and they said if I like to have the ceremony on Friday. I thought it’s a prank or something but it wasn’t and I got the oath letter a day after

 

[Arora5983]

Finally My Application Status changed to Decision Made.