October 11th 2017 - Citizenship Applicants under 3/5 rule

[spyfy]

I am facing the same problem. My application was delivered on 13of October, still not received AOR. So it means that after a month we can call and ask Sedney Office about our applications, I am not sure whether the phone representatives will be able to provide details because applications information is enter into computer after AOR.

It. Is. Totally. Normal. That. You. Didn't. Receive. An. AOR. After. Two. Weeks.

There is no "problem".

AORs normally take at least a month. Until you received AOR, there is no point in contacting IRCC. Before AOR, your application is an envelope in a big pile. They will have no electronic record of it. So if you call them all they can say is "We know nothing of your application".

If you didn't receive AOR within, say, 2 months, then I would start being worried.

Again, please do not freak out just because some people on here already received AOR.

 

[Najimi]

It. Is. Totally. Normal. That. You. Didn't. Receive. An. AOR. After. Two. Weeks.

There is no "problem".

AORs normally take at least a month. Until you received AOR, there is no point in contacting IRCC. Before AOR, your application is an envelope in a big pile. They will have no electronic record of it. So if you call them all they can say is "We know nothing of your application".

If you didn't receive AOR within, say, 2 months, then I would start being worried.

Again, please do not freak out just because some people on here already received AOR.

Thanks For the detail information.

 

[egghead]

The reason why they advise against asking for the CBSA record (which takes 30 days to receive btw) is just because they don't want that all hundred thousands of people who apply for citizenship also ask the CBSA for their record and therefore producing an overload. Asking for the CBSA record will not negatively affect your application (apart from the fact that you have to wait 30 days before you receive it and then can apply).

It's correct that they don't track your entries to the US, but they track your entries to Canada so based on that data you could list all day trips.

You can, of course, ask IRCC to figure it out themselves. But that's exactly the kind of stuff that delays your application. Do the work for them or they will do the work for you - over months.

So, trying to recall 150 absences over a five year period doesn't strike you as unnecessarily burdensome? I should produce and sign a list that I know is incomplete and inaccurate? Aren't they going to send for the report whether I list all of the entries or not? Then couldn't they simply verify that, as I stated, I crossed alot? Why don't you think that a letter explaining my circumstances would be adequate? Such as the following:

I have filled out the absences form to the best of my ability. Although I have endeavored to do this perfectly, our record does not include the many one day trips that we took. This reason for this is that we live in close proximity to the border and have consequently made regular trips into the United States. The number of trips could easily number 150-200 and any effort to document our trips back to October, 2012 would be extremely burdensome and no matter what the effort, inaccurate. Here is a list of reasons for which we crossed regularly:

My wife cleaned houses near the Vermont border and often crossed to buy gas, shop for groceries and pick up mail at our post office box.

We have often used the airports in Burlington, Vermont, Manchester, New Hampshire, and Boston, Massachusetts for personal and business travel, or to pick up family and visitors.

I have crossed on numerous occasions to buy gas, shop for groceries, or to pick up mail.

We have some friends across the border and have visited them at times. We have also done day trips for shopping, holidays, picnicking, etc. in Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont.

For more than two years of our eligibility period we had two sons living in Newport, Vermont whom we visited and/or assisted with various things at different times.

We have a granddaughter living in Newport, Vermont whom we visit for activities, special occasions, and at times to bring back to Canada with us.

I have recently begun working at Walmart in Newport, Vermont and cross the border for this purpose at least twice per week.

We freely admit that we have crossed the border regularly and that we have are not trying to hide any trips. nothing to hide, have nothing to hide, and have tried to provide information (imperfect) for the past several months, but are unable to provide an accurate record of our crossings since October, 2012. As a general statement, until I began working at Walmart, I probably crossed the U.S.-Canada border twice a month while my wife crossed 3-4 times per month.

Is this hiding something or refusing to provide information?

 

[robw]

So, trying to recall 150 absences over a five year period doesn't strike you as unnecessarily burdensome? I should produce and sign a list that I know is incomplete and inaccurate? Aren't they going to send for the report whether I list all of the entries or not? Then couldn't they simply verify that, as I stated, I crossed alot? Why don't you think that a letter explaining my circumstances would be adequate? Such as the following:

I have filled out the absences form to the best of my ability. Although I have endeavored to do this perfectly, our record does not include the many one day trips that we took. This reason for this is that we live in close proximity to the border and have consequently made regular trips into the United States. The number of trips could easily number 150-200 and any effort to document our trips back to October, 2012 would be extremely burdensome and no matter what the effort, inaccurate. Here is a list of reasons for which we crossed regularly:

My wife cleaned houses near the Vermont border and often crossed to buy gas, shop for groceries and pick up mail at our post office box.

We have often used the airports in Burlington, Vermont, Manchester, New Hampshire, and Boston, Massachusetts for personal and business travel, or to pick up family and visitors.

I have crossed on numerous occasions to buy gas, shop for groceries, or to pick up mail.

We have some friends across the border and have visited them at times. We have also done day trips for shopping, holidays, picnicking, etc. in Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont.

For more than two years of our eligibility period we had two sons living in Newport, Vermont whom we visited and/or assisted with various things at different times.

We have a granddaughter living in Newport, Vermont whom we visit for activities, special occasions, and at times to bring back to Canada with us.

I have recently begun working at Walmart in Newport, Vermont and cross the border for this purpose at least twice per week.

We freely admit that we have crossed the border regularly and that we have are not trying to hide any trips. nothing to hide, have nothing to hide, and have tried to provide information (imperfect) for the past several months, but are unable to provide an accurate record of our crossings since October, 2012. As a general statement, until I began working at Walmart, I probably crossed the U.S.-Canada border twice a month while my wife crossed 3-4 times per month.

Is this hiding something or refusing to provide information?

He's just telling you what the CIC is asking for. They want you to list all your trips, including day trips across the US border. That this is burdensome or needlessly complicated is immaterial. You're applying for citizenship here, not a license at the DMV. They want complete information, and if that means expending effort from the applicant's end to meet the requirements for citizenship, then you should be ready to do them.

As to how they will handle your file, it is unlikely that your file will be rejected, but you might get an RQ or an interview later on...maybe...nobody really knows. All we can tell you is what the CIC asks for and it's up to you to decide whether and how you want to follow their rules.

 

[loz1749]

So, trying to recall 150 absences over a five year period doesn't strike you as unnecessarily burdensome? I should produce and sign a list that I know is incomplete and inaccurate? Aren't they going to send for the report whether I list all of the entries or not? Then couldn't they simply verify that, as I stated, I crossed alot? Why don't you think that a letter explaining my circumstances would be adequate? Such as the following:

I have filled out the absences form to the best of my ability. Although I have endeavored to do this perfectly, our record does not include the many one day trips that we took. This reason for this is that we live in close proximity to the border and have consequently made regular trips into the United States. The number of trips could easily number 150-200 and any effort to document our trips back to October, 2012 would be extremely burdensome and no matter what the effort, inaccurate. Here is a list of reasons for which we crossed regularly:

My wife cleaned houses near the Vermont border and often crossed to buy gas, shop for groceries and pick up mail at our post office box.

We have often used the airports in Burlington, Vermont, Manchester, New Hampshire, and Boston, Massachusetts for personal and business travel, or to pick up family and visitors.

I have crossed on numerous occasions to buy gas, shop for groceries, or to pick up mail.

We have some friends across the border and have visited them at times. We have also done day trips for shopping, holidays, picnicking, etc. in Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont.

For more than two years of our eligibility period we had two sons living in Newport, Vermont whom we visited and/or assisted with various things at different times.

We have a granddaughter living in Newport, Vermont whom we visit for activities, special occasions, and at times to bring back to Canada with us.

I have recently begun working at Walmart in Newport, Vermont and cross the border for this purpose at least twice per week.

We freely admit that we have crossed the border regularly and that we have are not trying to hide any trips. nothing to hide, have nothing to hide, and have tried to provide information (imperfect) for the past several months, but are unable to provide an accurate record of our crossings since October, 2012. As a general statement, until I began working at Walmart, I probably crossed the U.S.-Canada border twice a month while my wife crossed 3-4 times per month.

Is this hiding something or refusing to provide information?

No matter how much we try to rationalize this. It is clearly stated that we need to declare every single time we left Canada even if it is for one day. This is a specific requirement, so if you want the citizenship you will have to declare ALL entrances. I suggest you go on the I-94 website and request your travel record to the US, they will have on the record all your entrances and exits. Print it and re-do your presence calculator, even if it takes 10 pages of trips. once you have an AOR call and find out how you can update your file. That way you can avoid any "unwanted" situations with the immigration office ( like an RQ which delays your application for much longer and requires A LOT more paperwork).

I also have about 22 trips during my elegibility period, I declared them all. Even the 1 day trips. Everything is there, there is no excuse or shadow of a doubt for the immigration officials that I have all the days of presence needed as per requirements and that I am not hiding anything.

Best of luck!!

 

[itsmyid]

So, trying to recall 150 absences over a five year period doesn't strike you as unnecessarily burdensome? I should produce and sign a list that I know is incomplete and inaccurate? Aren't they going to send for the report whether I list all of the entries or not? Then couldn't they simply verify that, as I stated, I crossed alot? Why don't you think that a letter explaining my circumstances would be adequate? Such as the following:

I have filled out the absences form to the best of my ability. Although I have endeavored to do this perfectly, our record does not include the many one day trips that we took. This reason for this is that we live in close proximity to the border and have consequently made regular trips into the United States. The number of trips could easily number 150-200 and any effort to document our trips back to October, 2012 would be extremely burdensome and no matter what the effort, inaccurate. Here is a list of reasons for which we crossed regularly:

My wife cleaned houses near the Vermont border and often crossed to buy gas, shop for groceries and pick up mail at our post office box.

We have often used the airports in Burlington, Vermont, Manchester, New Hampshire, and Boston, Massachusetts for personal and business travel, or to pick up family and visitors.

I have crossed on numerous occasions to buy gas, shop for groceries, or to pick up mail.

We have some friends across the border and have visited them at times. We have also done day trips for shopping, holidays, picnicking, etc. in Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont.

For more than two years of our eligibility period we had two sons living in Newport, Vermont whom we visited and/or assisted with various things at different times.

We have a granddaughter living in Newport, Vermont whom we visit for activities, special occasions, and at times to bring back to Canada with us.

I have recently begun working at Walmart in Newport, Vermont and cross the border for this purpose at least twice per week.

We freely admit that we have crossed the border regularly and that we have are not trying to hide any trips. nothing to hide, have nothing to hide, and have tried to provide information (imperfect) for the past several months, but are unable to provide an accurate record of our crossings since October, 2012. As a general statement, until I began working at Walmart, I probably crossed the U.S.-Canada border twice a month while my wife crossed 3-4 times per month.

Is this hiding something or refusing to provide information?

Your situation is unfortunate, but still, unfortunately the rule doesn't bend just because it is 'burdensome' , and it would be ridiculous if the rule says 'you must list all trips outside Canada during the last 5 years, but if the total number of trips are more than X and you can't remember then that's fine'

 

[egghead]

No matter how much we try to rationalize this. It is clearly stated that we need to declare every single time we left Canada even if it is for one day. This is a specific requirement, so if you want the citizenship you will have to declare ALL entrances. I suggest you go on the I-94 website and request your travel record to the US, they will have on the record all your entrances and exits. Print it and re-do your presence calculator, even if it takes 10 pages of trips. once you have an AOR call and find out how you can update your file. That way you can avoid any "unwanted" situations with the immigration office ( like an RQ which delays your application for much longer and requires A LOT more paperwork).

I also have about 22 trips during my elegibility period, I declared them all. Even the 1 day trips. Everything is there, there is no excuse or shadow of a doubt for the immigration officials that I have all the days of presence needed as per requirements and that I am not hiding anything.

Best of luck!!

As an American, I cannot request an I-94 travel record to the U.S. - doesn't exist. The same form that says provide all the trip details also clearly says "do not contact the CBSA." Apparently from the answers hear CIC people are stupid, lazy, and unreasonable. I guess we will find out.

 

[aamir90]

Hey Everyone,
So i guess i am in the same boat as some of you. I also did not declare same day trips to USA on the physical presence calculator. looking back on the saved calculated results it does indicate to declare same day trips. Please advise on the following -
1. My application was delivered on 10/19. No AOR as yet
2. Is it possible to mail a revised copy of Physical Presence results along with a cover letter explaining the updates?

Thanks!
Aamir

 

[spyfy]

As an American, I cannot request an I-94 travel record to the U.S. - doesn't exist. The same form that says provide all the trip details also clearly says "do not contact the CBSA." Apparently from the answers hear CIC people are stupid, lazy, and unreasonable. I guess we will find out.

I am not saying they are stupid, lazy and unreasonable. I also agree with the others that your application will not be returned. You did not "hide anything". You gave a good explanation and they will handle it. I am simply referring to processing times. From reports in this forum, the more your application is "out of the ordinary" (i.e. doesn't fit into the very rigid scheme of the forms), the longer it will take to be processed. If they will have to identify and categorize these day trips for you, it'll take them longer.

So what I mean is by not listing them yourself, you saved work on your side, but you produced work for them. And that will most likely mean longer processing.

This is, by the way, my own intuitive estimation of the situation which might not be correct and therefore you can of course just discard it.

I mostly wanted to clarify the "stupid, lazy, unreasonable" part.

 

[egghead]

I am not saying they are stupid, lazy and unreasonable. I also agree with the others that your application will not be returned. You did not "hide anything". You gave a good explanation and they will handle it. I am simply referring to processing times. From reports in this forum, the more your application is "out of the ordinary" (i.e. doesn't fit into the very rigid scheme of the forms), the longer it will take to be processed. If they will have to identify and categorize these day trips for you, it'll take them longer.

So what I mean is by not listing them yourself, you saved work on your side, but you produced work for them. And that will most likely mean longer processing.

This is, by the way, my own intuitive estimation of the situation which might not be correct and therefore you can of course just discard it.

I mostly wanted to clarify the "stupid, lazy, unreasonable" part.

I appreciate the responses and I know that they are intended with our best interest at heart. We have been here 18+ years so our situation has always been unusual, unique. Many Quebec and Canadian fonctionnaires have said that they have never heard of a immigration/tax/whatever situation like ours. Documents printed and signed - photos and fees paid tomorrow - package mailed on Friday. This weekend I will give you the info to add us to the list.

 

[hanyj123]

I included...
- photocpoies of my passports (one valid, two expired)
- a photocopoy of COPR
- a photocopy of PR card
- a photocopy of Ontario Driver’s Licence

I did not include my Health card because I did not receive new health card when I apply.
one government issued photo ID would be okay under new guideline, right.?
or My applications would be returned? (my app is delievered on Oct 13)

I am worried.

 

[badar14]

I included...
- photocpoies of my passports (one valid, two expired)
- a photocopoy of COPR
- a photocopy of PR card
- a photocopy of Ontario Driver’s Licence

I did not include my Health card because I did not receive new health card when I apply.
one government issued photo ID would be okay under new guideline, right.?
or My applications would be returned? (my app is delievered on Oct 13)

I am worried.

Why you are worried ?
Health card is not requirement any where you need to send only documents which are in Document Checklist.
there are so many whom application delivered on 13th Oct and they are waiting for AOR. Standard time for AOR is between 1-2 months. CIC start processing and opening envelops one by one
Its just a wait game
chill man.......your turn will be soon
Thanks

 

[badar14]

They shouldn’t ask for day trips as they don’t count towards absene.Doesn’t make any sense

agreed.
I have 75 day trips in last 4 years. why they need these not sure as they don't count as absence.

Thanks

 

[hanyj123]

Why you are worried ?
Health card is not requirement any where you need to send only documents which are in Document Checklist.
there are so many whom application delivered on 13th Oct and they are waiting for AOR. Standard time for AOR is between 1-2 months. CIC start processing and opening envelops one by one
Its just a wait game
chill man.......your turn will be soon
Thanks

Thanks,
cause I think i’ve heard that someone’s app was returned because he did not incldue two pieces of id.

 

[badar14]

Thanks,
cause I think i’ve heard that someone’s app was returned because he did not incldue two pieces of id.

Passport is 1 , PR is 2nd and Ontario DL is 3rd ......you are good