Not meeting RO and sponsoring spouse

[Besram]

So what you are saying is if I stay more than 1095 days outside of Canada, I am in breach of RO which I already understand but what you are also saying is once I am in breach of RO, even if i have stayed in Canada for some days in the last five years, those will not be counted and I need to stay in Canada for 730 days from the date I come back to meet RO?

Answer is it depends, but yes, in the scenarios you have shared, the upshot is that these earlier days in the country do not help you.

Here’s a simplified rule for you. If you have been outside of Canada for 3 years or more in one continuous period (which is the case for the scenarios above), the only way to get back into compliance is to stay in Canada for two years continuously.

Assuming you get into the country without being reported in the first place, of course.

 

[sg1234]

Answer is it depends, but yes, in the scenarios you have shared, the upshot is that these earlier days in the country do not help you.

Here’s a simplified rule for you. If you have been outside of Canada for 3 years or more in one continuous period (which is the case for the scenarios above), the only way to get back into compliance is to stay in Canada for two years continuously.

Assuming you get into the country without being reported in the first place, of course.

I think I understand now. If I am in breach of RO and I have stayed in Canada for 550 days in the last five years, those 550 days will not count towards the 730 days requirement as those 550 days will get cancelled with each passing day as my last 5 year anniversary date will keep moving with each day. Once I have passed 550 days, I still need to stay 180 days which will total 730 days, which basically means I need to stay in Canada for two years once I come back after breaching RO.

So, the best way forward is to meet RO before the 5 year anniversary date. If I come back 180 days before the first 5 year anniversary and meet RO exactly on the 5 year anniversary date, I will be okay. If I am even 1 day late, then the previous days will keep cancelling everyday and I need to stay for 2 whole years to meet RO.

 

[Besram]

Yes, you got it now.
And 100% - you should return before you are in breach. Not only to be able to sponsor your spouse, but also to be sure you will be able to keep PR yourself.
Remember, returning to Canada when already in breach can lead to loss of your PR status when reported at the border.

 

[sg1234]

Yes, you got it now.
And 100% - you should return before you are in breach. Not only to be able to sponsor your spouse, but also to be sure you will be able to keep PR yourself.
Remember, returning to Canada when already in breach can lead to loss of your PR status when reported at the border.

Honestly, this RO breach scenario sucks and I will need to come back pretty early to meet the 730 days requirement before my first 5 years are up. The biggest issue for me is that I won't be able to sponsor my spouse for two years if I am in breach of RO otherwise, I don't have any problem in staying for 730 days continuously .

 

[sg1234]

@Besram @scylla

I have one more question. Lets say I came back to Canada within 1095 days of staying outside, maybe in 1050 days, which means I am not in breach of RO, which also means that I am RO compliant. Can I apply for spousal sponsorship as soon as I land as I am not in breach of RO?

 

[armoured]

So what you are saying is if I stay more than 1095 days outside of Canada, I am in breach of RO which I already understand but what you are also saying is once I am in breach of RO, even if i have stayed in Canada for some days in the last five years, those will not be counted and I need to stay in Canada for 730 days from the date I come back to meet RO?

No. I am saying exactly what I said: on any day when evaluated, if you look back five years (or to day of landing if landed in last five years), if the number of days outside Canada is more than 1095 days, you are in breach.

The distinction is that you are asking me to speak about specific circumstances - some pattern of travel you have in your head - which I do not know. IT DEPENDS or can depend - on when exactly those days outside / inside Canada occurred and when. I'm not going to be able to track or make detailed tracking when there are lots of ins and outs. If you track the days carefully and do arithmetic properly, this calc will work.

 

[armoured]

@Besram @scylla

I have one more question. Lets say I came back to Canada within 1095 days of staying outside, maybe in 1050 days, which means I am not in breach of RO, which also means that I am RO compliant. Can I apply for spousal sponsorship as soon as I land as I am not in breach of RO?

If you are in compliance, you are in compliance, and you can sponsor without risk - as long as you remain in Canada and in compliance throughout the sponsorship period.

That's an important caveat because arriving, submitting spousal app and leaving is NOT without risk. First, PR-sponsors must be resident in Canada ('short trips' allowed, no definition of short trips), and if they examine during course of and also determine you are not in compliance, you are at risk again.

Side note that it is not clear how strict IRCC is about the only-short-trips-allowed thing, and also not clear how strict and diligent they are about checking compliance for those who appear to be resident in Canada. But in your case, again, getting back in compliance (eg if you left again and went out of compliance) would take close to two years. A 'breach' of a couple of days might be one thing, a larger one another. YMMV.

 

[armoured]

Honestly, this RO breach scenario sucks and I will need to come back pretty early to meet the 730 days requirement before my first 5 years are up. The biggest issue for me is that I won't be able to sponsor my spouse for two years if I am in breach of RO otherwise, I don't have any problem in staying for 730 days continuously .

The residency obligation is, IMO, on the low side (practically and comparatively with other countries), and enforcement not terribly strict. But yes - keeping the benefits of being a PR including sponsoring one's spouse does have 'obligations' (or responsibilities if you prefer).

Unfortunately many don't realize the implications of choosing to reside outside Canada (or delaying their move to Canada) for long periods until they are close to being or already out of compliance.

 

[sg1234]

If you are in compliance, you are in compliance, and you can sponsor without risk - as long as you remain in Canada and in compliance throughout the sponsorship period.

That's an important caveat because arriving, submitting spousal app and leaving is NOT without risk. First, PR-sponsors must be resident in Canada ('short trips' allowed, no definition of short trips), and if they examine during course of and also determine you are not in compliance, you are at risk again.

Side note that it is not clear how strict IRCC is about the only-short-trips-allowed thing, and also not clear how strict and diligent they are about checking compliance for those who appear to be resident in Canada. But in your case, again, getting back in compliance (eg if you left again and went out of compliance) would take close to two years. A 'breach' of a couple of days might be one thing, a larger one another. YMMV.

Rules for sponsoring spouse I understand and I don't plan on leaving again once I come back.

The most important thing which I understood is never be in breach of RO and always keep some time as buffer in case you need to go outside of Canada urgently.

@armoured Thank you so much for your detailed explanations.

 

[foodie69]

Rules for sponsoring spouse I understand and I don't plan on leaving again once I come back.

The most important thing which I understood is never be in breach of RO and always keep some time as buffer in case you need to go outside of Canada urgently.

@armoured Thank you so much for your detailed explanations.

Having read through your scenario, do yourself a favor and commit to Canada and live here. It's so much easier..I never understood people on PR jumping back and forth like pingpong balls and worry about their compliance. Actually, Canada is too soft

 

[armoured]

The most important thing which I understood is never be in breach of RO and always keep some time as buffer in case you need to go outside of Canada urgently.

This is a very good summary.

While there is some leniency in enforcement of the RO, and in addition H&C exemptions that can be used in cases where truly extenuating circumstances occur (real emergencies that keep one abroad, for example), being out of compliance with the RO is not without risk. On top of that, using that leniency and/or the H&C processes is not without inconveniences, issues, and costs that can really be problematic (depending to some degree on circumstances) - health care, ability to travel, etc.

Put differently, if PR status is important, then taking your approach above is the only safe one.

 

[sg1234]

Having read through your scenario, do yourself a favor and commit to Canada and live here. It's so much easier..I never understood people on PR jumping back and forth like pingpong balls and worry about their compliance. Actually, Canada is too soft

Simple reason is this recession and insane cost of living.

I got a good job pretty quickly after I landed but there is no guarantee that my wife will have the same experience if I bring her here now and she just got a great job back home too. It is entirely possible that she may not find a job for months after coming here, I want to avoid that scenario at all costs so I have decided to quit my job and leave.

I don't want to give up entirely on PR so I am looking for the ideal date to come back so that I can sponsor my wife immediately and we are not separated for long. If the rules for RO were strict, then I would have given up on Canada.

 

[canuck78]

Simple reason is this recession and insane cost of living.

I got a good job pretty quickly after I landed but there is no guarantee that my wife will have the same experience if I bring her here now and she just got a great job back home too. It is entirely possible that she may not find a job for months after coming here, I want to avoid that scenario at all costs so I have decided to quit my job and leave.

I don't want to give up entirely on PR so I am looking for the ideal date to come back so that I can sponsor my wife immediately and we are not separated for long. If the rules for RO were strict, then I would have given up on Canada.

Not sure how leaving not and returning in a few years will change all the issues you have brought up. Moving in a few years will likely be even more difficult since immigration gets harder as you get older. If you and your spouse are not wanting to take on the risk of immigrating now how will things change in a few years? It is very hard to predict what will happen in the future. There is a very good chance we will have a different government in power who may bring in more strict immigration policies.

 

[sg1234]

Not sure how leaving not and returning in a few years will change all the issues you have brought up. Moving in a few years will likely be even more difficult since immigration gets harder as you get older. If you and your spouse are not wanting to take on the risk of immigrating now how will things change in a few years? It is very hard to predict what will happen in the future. There is a very good chance we will have a different government in power who may bring in more strict immigration policies.

I already have PR, why would I face any issue in coming back if I am in RO compliance? If you are talking about rules being changed for sponsoring spouse during this time, then I cannot do anything and wont come back if the rules are changed drastically to the point that sponsoring spouse becomes too difficult.

What I am trying to do is avoid this current situation in Canada while having a chance for me to comeback later as per the rules of RO and PR. If I had to make a choice between staying to keep my PR status and leaving and losing my PR status, I would just leave now and not come back at all.

 

[Copingwithlife]

Having read through your scenario, do yourself a favor and commit to Canada and live here. It's so much easier..I never understood people on PR jumping back and forth like pingpong balls and worry about their compliance. Actually, Canada is too soft

“ Too soft “

“If the rules for RO were strict, then I would have given up on Canada”

Now that’s rich

Is being FAR to generous . One department the CRA nails people if they make a honest mistake on their tax returns , and the IRCC is basically a joke when enforcing the laws.

Hopefully when the Liberals get the can , enforcement means enforcement