non-accompanying dependant's medical exam

[snugglewawa]

Hi,
First of all I like to say that I am so happy that I have found your website and I would like to thank you so much for assisting me with my problem.
My husband (a Canadian citizen) and I got married in the States at March 2007, after that I moved in Canada with my younger dependent children as landed immigrants now waiting for our PR to be approved. My boys hold students visa and I have an open work permit for the time being.
My problem is: I have 3 boys, the oldest one is 17 years old now living in USA with his uncle (my late husband's brother whom is now my son's legal guardian). My son has no intension immigrating to Canada and his uncle has refused to take him to get a Medical exam. I have tried to talk to my brother-in-law and expressed how important it is for my son to get this Medical exam. But they still won't change their mind.
I have called and sent letters back and forwards with the CIC explaining my situation, and they have called back and also sent me a notify letter telling me that the only thing I need to do is to get a notarized statutory declaration documents of my son and myself stating that I know the fact if my son doesn’t undergo the medical exam I can not sponsor him at later day and I had done so months ago.

But now, CIC sent me another letter stating:

Please note that immigration considers someone a dependant child untill 22 years of age and not a spouse or common-law partner. You son is under 22 years of age and you have included him as a non-accompanying dependant and he MUST be examined. If your oversea dependant does not comply with the request from the visa office in Buffalo, we may have to refuse your application for non-compliance.

I called the CIC today again. They told me to write another letter and explain to them what I have tried to do and done for my case.

After all these, all the time waiting. I must admit that now I am so frustrated. I have done everything the CIC asked of me. It's been almost 17 months since I have turned in my application and I am still waiting for it to be approved. I now have no idea what to do anymore. Please help me and advise me what to do.

I apologize for writing(nagging) such a long letter. Thank you all ever so much for your assistance.

 

[RobsLuv]

Oh boy, this is a tough one. CIC doesn't like to allow applicants to exclude dependent children from their applications, although they cannot prevent you from doing so. (Read this appeal decision where a daughter was sponsoring her mother, and the son was criminally inadmissible. The (sister) sponsor asked to designate her inadmissible brother as non-accompanying so he wouldn't make her mother inadmissible, and the embassy refused. That decision was overturned in appeal because the appeal panel said that CIC could not tell the sister she had to sponsor her brother if she didn't want to sponsor him, and if he didn't want to come to Canada.) If CIC were to refuse your application over this, you would most certainly win an appeal - but I'm here to tell you there's not much comfort in that when having to go to appeal means a delay in excess of at least another year to get your PR.

That said, your son is only 17 . . . and, having children that age myself, I know that things can change a lot over the next 5 years that he's eligible to be sponsored by you. Regardless of the uncle's refusal to allow him to be examined, I would think at age 17, your son could attend the medical exam on his own. It is always in his best interest to have an opportunity to reunite with you, and his brothers, if he should decide at some point in time that he wants to do that. If he's excluded from the application, he can never do that. So, the repercussions of excluding your son from your application over his uncle refusing to allow him to submit to a simple, non-invasive medical examination are huge. If it was my son, I wouldn't put up with it.

You've got an outland ap in process that is not going to be affected by you going home to the States. Is it possible for you and your husband to make a trip to visit your son, and take him to the appointment yourselves?

 

[snugglewawa]

Thank you so so much for replying my post.

You also have a teen, you know where I am coming from. I am still trying to talk to my son and also his uncle about this issue. I would not want my son to have to close this extra window of opportunity for himself. The uncle said, since he's the legal guardian, and my son is his dependant now not mine. The CIC shouldn't pressure and have no rights to pressure my son to get the medical exam, specially he's not immigrating to Canada. And as the mind of theirs, they rather to just be AMERICANS.

sigh....It is not that I let them have their way. It is all about I do respect my son's wish.

I have to start thinking for my younger ones. We are trying to rebuild our life here with my husband. Just hoping everything could run smoothly with the CIC. Now I need to know what's my next step to reply to them so they won't refuse my application, and can they do so?

Again, thank you so much. and also by backing up with a real case. I feel a bit at ease now.

 

[Siouxie]

Sorry to hear of your situation.  I would just like to say that children do change their minds about coming to Canada, and your son is very young to be making an irrevocable decision like this.  My son was adamant he did not want to come to Canada to join me at age of 19-20, however, I held back from putting in my application and one month before his 22nd birthday he finally said he DID want to be on my application. 

I agree that you should return to the states and see him and talk to him about what it will mean if he refuses to have the medical (in terms of never being able to be sponsored by you) - never is a long time.  If there are any relatives that could talk to him about it away from his "Guardian" I think it would be a very good idea, it sounds as though he is being heavily influenced by his late father's brother.  Are there Grandparents from that side of the family or aunts who could put some pressure on him? 

I wonder if they are scared of losing all 3 of their nephews to Canada and desperately holding on to one. I wonder if your son feels like he has been "abandoned" by you in order that you can pursue a life elsewhere .. my son did for the first 2 years .. perhaps you need to reinforce the fact that you would really want him to be here with you and to be a part of YOUR family (not your new husbands). Kids get funny ideas in their heads!

I hope, given time, that things will sort out

 

[snugglewawa]

Thank you for seeing and understanding my situation. I am happy for you that your child finally is reunited with you.

I honestly am very grateful to my brother-in-law's willining and taking very good care of my oldest son. as far as why not wanting to help with the medical exam. He will be the only one whom really know the reason. I understand that it is my in-laws' lost of losing their family member(my late husband), but it is also my lost. And it will still be my lost now if I can't get my PR status settled ASAP.

 

[Sere]

hi snugglewawa, just wondering if you had any update to your situation? We have a similar situation with an uncooperative ex re: med exam. I just wondered if you received any further letters from CIC?
Thank you.

 

[HONEYGIRL]

Anybody have same situation ??? Pls reply here thank you

 

[jvdrev]

Re: non-accompanying dependant's

Hell0:

Am I ever glad I registered on this site!

I want to sponsor my wife and 2 children to Canada. The 8 year child has lived with his father for the last 2 years. The father does very hesitantly give his ex commonlaw partner, the boys mother, my wife access to her son. Mom asking for him to come to her house for supper is okay. Asking to take him to the lake for fishing or a swim the answer is NO! We asked the father for permission to add him to our sponsorship application to Canada but were flatly denied.

Now my wife has to list him on the additional family form IMM 5406? He is not dependant on her at all. The way I read, if she does not get him a medical, which in Thailand means getting a Passport first, which means he the father has to be there at the application process to get that passport. If he is not there she needs a form showing she has legal custody of the child, which she does not. So she signs a form saying she has no access to her son for the passport, the medical and he is forever excluded from her being able to sponsor him. YES?

That is crazy. The boys father is an alcoholic who is 42 looking 62 and will be dead in the next 5years no surprise to me or anyone else.

James

 

[wowsers]

Re: non-accompanying dependant's

Hell0:

Am I ever glad I registered on this site!

I want to sponsor my wife and 2 children to Canada. The 8 year child has lived with his father for the last 2 years. The father does very hesitantly give his ex commonlaw partner, the boys mother, my wife access to her son. Mom asking for him to come to her house for supper is okay. Asking to take him to the lake for fishing or a swim the answer is NO! We asked the father for permission to add him to our sponsorship application to Canada but were flatly denied.

Now my wife has to list him on the additional family form IMM 5406? He is not dependant on her at all. The way I read, if she does not get him a medical, which in Thailand means getting a Passport first, which means he the father has to be there at the application process to get that passport. If he is not there she needs a form showing she has legal custody of the child, which she does not. So she signs a form saying she has no access to her son for the passport, the medical and he is forever excluded from her being able to sponsor him. YES?

That is crazy. The boys father is an alcoholic who is 42 looking 62 and will be dead in the next 5years no surprise to me or anyone else.

James

Your wife needs to consult a Thai lawyer practising in family law. She does indeed have to list him on IMM 5406 - it is irrelevant that he is not a dependant- and he will be required to have a medical unless CIC agrees otherwise. If with the agreement of CIC he does not have a medical the child can never again be sponsored. To that extent what you state in your penultimate paragraph is correct. I am surprised to hear that to undergo a medical the child has to get a passport - there are surely designated medical practitioners in Thailand? - but in any case the main flaw in your post is your assumption that because the father is unliikely to agree all is lost. 'Taint necessarily so! I am not a Thai lawyer and can only guess what such a lawyer might say. My guess is that if she checked with such a lawyer he/she might advise that it is possible for her to apply for a court order requiring the father to take the child for a medical, since that is potentially for the child's benefit. There are likely to be possible variations on such an order ranging from an application for full custody to requiring the father to apply for a passport, if that is indeed necessary. However tell her to find out the likely cost first!

 

[jvdrev]

Thank you for your time and information in your note.

Yes we were just in Chiang Mai last week at a designated medical doctor for the medical and the youngest child being sponsored was refused a medical without a valid passport. I asked them to go ahead with the examination and with hold the information until we get the passport and we would forward the passport information which should be in about 2 weeks and they said no way. Another long trip to Chiang Mai required.

Never thought of going down the road you mentioned of contacting a lawyer with family law experience. And now I see how important what you said about making sure the oldest boy does get his medical.

THANK YOU again!

James

 

[wowsers]

This is what is said about identification in CIC's publication concerning medical examinations: <<When you go to your appointment, you must bring:
proper identification (you will need at least one document with your photograph and signature, such as a passport, driver’s licence or national identity card)>> So the DMP is going one step further than required by CIC in demanding a passport and nothing but. Does the child have a national identity card with a photograph or any other official document (something from school for example) which could act as 'proper identification'? If not you or someone on your behalf could ask for assistance by phoning the CIC helpline. You can only access that helpline from Canada so since you are at present in Thailand you would not be able to telephone the line yourself until you return to Canada. Or contact your Canadian MP? I recommend one of those lines of inquiry before resorting to a lawyer and/or the court. Also try posting your question in this forum as a new thread in the hope of getting advice from someone with more experience than I have of such a problem: posting a question at the fag-end of someone else's thread is not the best way of attracting attention from senior members of the forum. There is a button at the top right of the first page inviting new topics. What an exasperating problem! I very much hope you can resolve it.

 

[jvdrev]

Hello Wowsers

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my queries.

Some positive news today. My wife got custody of her youngest son making it able for her to get a Thai passport for him. He is 3 yrs of age. So now I can see from your post that The DMP was correct in refusing to do the medical because he does not have a drivers license, cannot get a Thai ID so that leaves the passport.

Tomorrow we were going to talk to the oldest son's father once more and try to convince him ( $$$$ ) to go to Chiang Rai with us to get a passport for his son and then let us take him to Chiang Mai for the medical. But now with your quality information I can see a passport is not required. A Thai Id would suffise and that can be done locally. You have to be 7 yrs for a Thai ID and he is 8 yrs old.

The next step would be to convince the DMP in Chiang Mai that a Thai ID should be enough for her to do a medical for him. Your statement will be used as ammo in trying to convincing her.

I am not to computer literate but I can now understand your point of starting a new topic on this issue.

Thanks again
James

 

[wowsers]

You are welcome. Print out the document found by clicking the following link and take the printout to the doctor. I hope all goes well. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/medical/medexams-perm.asp

 

[jvdrev]

Hello Wowsers

Thanks for the document. I attached it to an email to the Chiang Mai hospital. and asked them if they would accept a Thai ID card. We went and took the 8 yr old out of school, daddy doesn't know yet, and went to the local amphoe government office and were able to get him his Thai ID card. Shows his picture but no signature. Put that to the personal at the hospital, they went to there security department and they said they would accept it. Alright that saves us getting a passport for him in Chiang Rai which Daddy would not of allowed. Now we just need his permission for the medical.

Your help has saved us a lot of time, money, and most important for me frustration. Thank You

Now the next hurdle. There was 2 DMP's in Chiang Mai. One died 2 weeks ago and the one we were going to see last week is very sick and in the hospital herself so now there is no one there.

Also we need the passport for the youngest and with the unrest in Bangkok the Thai government has closed all passport offices outside of Bangkok, with even limited services at the one in Bangkok.

I am having some confidence on this end that I have done my part to get things accomplished. Now I will relax and wait for things to happen on their end. I am now changing my flight to a later date due to the length of time it has taken to get things done. Have been here 2 months already.

Cheers

James

 

[Wren1313]

I married a Canadian and am going through the sponsorship process (inland). I have a 20 year old daughter that is living on her own in the U.S., yet they are requiring that she get a medical exam in order for my sponsorship application to process. She is not even a part of the sponsorship. She has her own life in the states. Why is this a requirement?? How does she even get a Canadian exam in the U.S?