NOC description (canadian experience class)

[sysc2002]

Hello,

My application got refused today for the canadian experience class due to this reason: (after 9 months of waiting):

I am not satisfied that you meet the skilled work experience requirement(s) because your application does not demonstrate that you have acquired work experience performing the lead statement and main duties of the NOC 2173. Therefore, I am not satisfied that you acquired work experience at a skill level A, B, 0. Specifically, you have not provided the information as set out in the document checklist to assess the duties you performed in this position. Furthermore, the description of duties you declared in Schedule 8 is vague and does not correspond to the job description of NOC 2173.

I was working for software designer for more than one year and they refused me probably due to the job description. Is there any kind of Appeal? What should i do in this case!? I am 100% sure that my NOC is 2173 since i already provided them a company letter mentioning that i work as a software designer. Why they just didn't ask for more info?

 

[anand243244]

Did reference letter from employer had detailed roles and responsibility ?

 

[sysc2002]

It had the job role: Software designer , and HR contact info. Not too much about the job itself. So what i should do in this case?

 

[anand243244]

It had the job role: Software designer , and HR contact info. Not too much about the job itself. So what i should do in this case?

Detailed role and responsibility are required, I do not think there is any other option apart from re-applying with a detailed reference letter, please refer checklist for detail.

Refer this topic : http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/elements-of-a-good-employment-reference-letter-t97004.0.html

By the way what did you mentioned in Schedule 8 description as VO said its vague ?

 

[sysc2002]

There is nothing like appeal? I am waiting for 9 month. What if i apply again and was missing something?

It was the job description from the HR job site but it was mentioning that i need to develop and design similar to NOC 2173

 

[anand243244]

There is nothing like appeal? I am waiting for 9 month. What if i apply again and was missing something?

It was the job description from the HR job site but it was mentioning that i need to develop and design similar to NOC 2173

Not sure about appeal.

 

[kevin220]

May be you can get the reference letter with duties as soon as possible and mail them to Visa office. I have seen a couple of instances in this forum in which they reopened. You don't have anything to loose at this point anyway, so you might as well try your luck.

 

[jes_ON]

You can appeal if you believe that CIC made an error. But in this case, it sounds like your letter of employment did not include all of the required information (e.g. job duties). As well, the main duties you identified on Schedule 8 were not a good fit with the NOC. So the error was yours, and the appeal will likely not be accepted.

Just printing a list of job duties is not the same has having your employer verifying in writing stating that you performed those duties. Nor can you rely on the job title - the main duties and responsibilities have to correspond with those identified in the NOC.

Can't really tell you more without knowing what duties/responsibilities were described in your letter and/or on Sched 8...

 

[sysc2002]

I dont believe the company provided a job description about the duties, but it showed that I am working from date to date and salary.. but didn't go through job description. But shouldn't i get at least please provide us more info? how do i appeal? is there any website? Can i appeal with adding more info or with a signed document from my company?



For job description in schedule 8 this is what i believe i copied paste:

We're looking for a junior software developer to join a team working on a product known as ACE (Agile Communication Environment).
ACE provides middleware to communication-enable the web, based on the SOA architecture. We provide simple Parlay X based Web Service APIs "northbound" to web developers, and we manage the complexities of the telecommunication network on their behalf, via SIP-based "southbound" messaging. The simplest example is the ability to click-to-dial directly from a web page, but we do much more than that. Our ACE code is primarily written in Java, but we also do some scripting; XML; installers (WIX and others); and a very small amount of C/C++ coding. ACE is supported on two platforms: Red Hat Linux and MS Windows. It uses IBM WebSphere as the Application Server. Our developers have Windows machines on their desktops, and we use a very open third-party development environment employing such tools as Subversion, JIRA, FishEye and Crucible. We develop using Agile/Scrum methodologies, using VersionOne as our planning and tracking tool.

Following are the skills we have identified for this position:

Mandatory

Significant programming experience in Java
Basic knowledge of SIP
HTTP, XML, SOAP, various Web Services standards/technologies
Excellent written and oral communications
Demonstrated team player

 

[jes_ON]

I dont believe the company provided a job description about the duties, but it showed that I am working from date to date and salary.. but didn't go through job description. But shouldn't i get at least please provide us more info?

No, you are required to provide that information with your application. The VO may at his/her own discretion, request more information, but they are not required to give you a second chance.

how do i appeal? Can i appeal with adding more info or with a signed document from my company?

You would have to respond to the refusal (to your visa office) ASAP, with a complete letter from your employer, and a request that they reconsider, because.... Again, it wasn't their error, so the chance of success is pretty low. Stranger things have happened, tho.


For job description in schedule 8 this is what i believe i copied paste:

Schedule 8 provides 3 very short text boxes for BRIEFLY identifying MAIN duties. I am very sure this is not what was there

 

[sysc2002]

What do you guys think about appeal in this case? I got the right NOC but probably need another document from my employer. Do you guys think i have a chance here especially it is unfair here after waiting nine month and they just need an extra explanatation for my main duties?

 

[seton]

What do you guys think about appeal in this case? I got the right NOC but probably need another document from my employer. Do you guys think i have a chance here especially it is unfair here after waiting nine month and they just need an extra explanatation for my main duties?

It doesn't hurt to appeal - however I'm not sure if you have a case. You're required to submit a complete application on submission. The fact that you omitted a key requirement in your documents (the checklist and guide specifically require that you include your job duties in your reference letter), they may be less inclined to re-open your file. This entire category is based on your work experience - it is the basis of them assessing your eligibility.

I don't know if I'd classify it as "unfair" - it is unfortunate to wait for 9 months for a refusal. You have nothing to lose at this point, but make sure to supply the right document if you're going to appeal.

If you do re-apply, I would highly recommend being very thorough with your application, including reading the Guide, Checklists, and reviewing your entire application (forms and supporting docs) prior to submission.

 

[sysc2002]

ok Thanks Seton. It was the ottawa office who refused my application What i think is not fair is that if you are applying as a canadian experience class (student graduate), you would never think at all that they will just refuse your application without any notice. I've applied like multiple visas,study permits and work permits during my 5 year living in ottawa, but in case i was missing anything they would just mail me be back and ask for the document(this for a 150$ application), but for a huge immigration application requiring 20 or more papers with a huge waiting time this i dont think what should be done specially for people living in Canada. There is always human error everywhere and assuming hundreds of applicants reapplying for the same reason this will consume more resources from the cic and the waiting time will be much higher. off course, this also without the emotional hit that the applicant will get.

 

[Karen89]

Hi everyone,

Here is the answer that sysc2002 received. We would like to know what are the exact documents that he should resend to complete the file or not receiving a refusal answer on the next request.

Thank you so much for your help
********************************************************
I have now completed the assessment of your application for a permanent resident visa as a member of the Canadian Experience Class and have determined that you do not meet the requirements for immigration to Canada.

According to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations, applicants in the Canadian Experience Class are assessed on the basis of the pass/fail requirements set out in subsection R87.1(2). The assessment of these criteria determines whether a worker with Canadian experience will be able to become economically established in Canada. The criteria are:
•knowledge of English or French,
•Canadian skilled work experience,
•Canadian educational credentials (for the Post-Graduation Stream only).

Your application was assessed based on the occupation(s) which you identified as part of your skilled work experience in Canada: NOC 2173-Software Designer

I am not satisfied that you meet the skilled work experience requirement(s) because your application does not demonstrate that you have acquired work experience performing the lead statement and main duties of the NOC 2173. Therefore, I am not satisfied that you acquired work experience at a skill level A, B, 0. Specifically, you have not provided the information as set out in the document checklist to assess the duties you performed in this position. Furthermore, the description of duties you declared in Schedule 8 is vague and does not correspond to the job description of NOC 2173.


Subsection 11(1) of the Act states that a foreign national must, before entering Canada, apply to an officer for a visa or for any other document required by the Regulations. The visa or document shall be issued if, following an examination, the officer is satisfied that the foreign national is not inadmissible and meets the requirements of this Act. Subsection 2(1)specifies that unless otherwise indicated, references in the Act to “this Act” include regulations made under it.

Following an examination of your application, I am not satisfied that you meet the requirements of the Act and Regulations for the reasons explained above. I am therefore refusing your application.

 

[seton]

ok Thanks Seton. It was the ottawa office who refused my application What i think is not fair is that if you are applying as a canadian experience class (student graduate), you would never think at all that they will just refuse your application without any notice. I've applied like multiple visas,study permits and work permits during my 5 year living in ottawa, but in case i was missing anything they would just mail me be back and ask for the document(this for a 150$ application), but for a huge immigration application requiring 20 or more papers with a huge waiting time this i dont think what should be done specially for people living in Canada. There is always human error everywhere and assuming hundreds of applicants reapplying for the same reason this will consume more resources from the cic and the waiting time will be much higher. off course, this also without the emotional hit that the applicant will get.

Unfortunately, the CIC is under pressure from the government to process CEC applications quickly. There are tons of news stories, and on average a PR release every few months by the Minister touting that this is a focused class on skilled immigrants, etc. As a downside, in an effort to process quickly, they are more inclined to make an assessment from what you submit at the time of the application. The CIC operation manual allows the officers to reject an application if they cannot determine eligibility based on what is provided - they do have the discretion to request additional documents (and it does happen). However, if you omit a key document, they will be less inclined to give you the option to submit additional evidence.

Unfortunately the immigration process is painful and very detailed - your best bet is try to be careful and thorough next time.