NOC code required for PhD stream application

[Atom Wang]

Dear everyone,
I am a 3rd year PhD student studying at university of Toronto. I have studied my undergrad at university of toronto too. it's a 4 year bachelor in science.
I don't have any former work experience - i only have two internships called Co-OPs and i don't think they count as the cic said they are "study experience" rather than working
I have submitted my application for PR twice now. Every time i called the CIC, the agents told me that i do not need work experience and as long as i have my letter of assesstation, i'll be fine.
however, my application has been refused, again - with the highlight, for both times:
please include the appropriate four digit NOC codes for each of your specified work experiences. for more info...

So here, i'm gonna ask some really stupid questions:

1. By any chance the agents are wrong, where in reality, work experience is still required for this application?
2. If not, what would the NOC be for a PHD student?
3. does COOP count or no?

I have read the eligibility stuff. I also understand there is a specific thread for the phd stream topic - but that is 500+page long. I'm still reading but meanwhile i would appreciate if someone would reduce my workload just a little bit.

Thank you.

 

[noc4012]

NOC for work as RA is 4012. You need to obtain 67 points. You do not need work experience to apply, but if you don't get 67 points without work experience, then you need it in order to jump over the 67 points.

 

[asbereth]

NOC for work as RA is 4012. You need to obtain 67 points. You do not need work experience to apply, but if you don't get 67 points without work experience, then you need it in order to jump over the 67 points.

There is the minimum requirement of having to have obtained at least 1 year of full-time continuous work experience (or equivalent) within the last 10 years, so even if you have more than 67 points, without at least 1 year of continuous work experience (or continuous 1,950 hours of work experience within the last 10 years, claiming at max 37.5 hours per week), your application will still be refused. And co-op doesn't count, but RA/TA does (NOC 4012), provided that you got paid for doing it. Post your questions on the PhD stream thread, and chances are, most of them would have been answered by someone earlier

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/applicant-from-phd-program-after-5-nov-2011-connect-here-to-get-status-t87348.7575.html

And since you have a Bachelor's degree from Canada, I suggest you wait until the new point system is announced on May. The cap for PhD stream will be reset, and the point system completely overhauled, benefiting those with Canadian experience and Canadian degrees. If you max out language points (24 points), have a Bachelor's degree (21 points) from Canada (5 points), one year of work experience (9 points), and less than 34 years old (12 points), that's already more than enough to qualify (you'd have 71 points).

The reason why people like you should definitely consider waiting until May 4 to apply is because you have a Canadian education, which doesn't need to be evaluated for equivalence. Your main hurdle would be to obtain a super strong letter of reference (noc4012 is an expert for that ), which lists all the main duties of NOC 4012. There have been A LOT (cannot be overstated) of rejections within the past year due to job description mismatch, so you better be extremely careful in detailing your duties and responsibilities. Post your stuff on the PhD stream thread, so others can review your letter before you apply.

 

[Atom Wang]

There is the minimum requirement of having to have obtained at least 1 year of full-time continuous work experience (or equivalent) within the last 10 years, so even if you have more than 67 points, without at least 1 year of continuous work experience (or continuous 1,950 hours of work experience within the last 10 years, claiming at max 37.5 hours per week), your application will still be refused. And co-op doesn't count, but RA/TA does (NOC 4012), provided that you got paid for doing it. Post your questions on the PhD stream thread, and chances are, most of them would have been answered by someone earlier

And since you have a Bachelor's degree from Canada, I suggest you wait until the new point system is announced on May. The cap for PhD stream will be reset, and the point system completely overhauled, benefiting those with Canadian experience and Canadian degrees. If you max out language points (24 points), have a Bachelor's degree (21 points) from Canada (5 points), one year of work experience (9 points), and less than 34 years old (12 points), that's already more than enough to qualify (you'd have 71 points).

The reason why people like you should definitely consider waiting until May 4 to apply is because you have a Canadian education, which doesn't need to be evaluated for equivalence. Your main hurdle would be to obtain a super strong letter of reference (noc4012 is an expert for that ), which lists all the main duties of NOC 4012. There have been A LOT (cannot be overstated) of rejections within the past year due to job description mismatch, so you better be extremely careful in detailing your duties and responsibilities. Post your stuff on the PhD stream thread, so others can review your letter before you apply.

So that one year of work experience is still an abosolute requirement...
Are graduate student by default research assistances ? or do i need official letter/ T4 tax slits instead of T4A to prove that?
Atom

 

[Atom Wang]

NOC for work as RA is 4012. You need to obtain 67 points. You do not need work experience to apply, but if you don't get 67 points without work experience, then you need it in order to jump over the 67 points.

i have more than 67 point without work experience. i just don't know why they keep on asking me for NOC code...

 

[noc4012]

As asbereth kindly noted, you need 1 year work as skilled worker.

If you are a grad student with TA or RA assignments, then you can apply as NOC 4012. You need a letter from HR which indicates hours worked, pay, and duration and a letter which details your duties according to http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/Profile.aspx?val=4&val1=4012

 

[noc4012]

By the way, you may think you have 69 points, but as is the case with many applicants here, the CIC may award you less points. So it's better you do two things: try to get as many more points as you possibly can; and share your details here so that seniors can advise you how to make sure your points count through documentation or if you made a mistake in awarding yourself those points.

 

[asbereth]

Do you have your application ready? If so, you have now the choice on re-applying before or after May 4. It would not make much difference for you since you don't have to have your Bachelor's degree evaluated (it's a Canadian degree), but you need the 1 year of work experience, there is no other way (I think it's impressive that you have 69 points without any work experience, but having one year of work experience is a must).

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/apply-who.asp

If your application is eligible for processing, it will then be assessed against minimum requirements.
Your work experience must be:
at least one year, continuous, and paid (full-time or the equivalent in part-time); AND
a skill type 0 (managerial occupations) or skill level A (professional occupations) or B (technical occupations and skilled trades) on the Canadian National Occupational Classification (NOC) list.

So besides eligibility for processing (2 years as full-time PhD student), you need to satisfy the minimum requirements too.

I have a feeling that, if you send your application after May 4, it would actually have faster processing. So it's probably better to wait until May 4? Also, get your supervisor to write you a reference letter with duties and responsibilities for TA/RA (and other things they need as per the checklist). Check the link noc4012 posted for these descriptions.

 

[Atom Wang]

Do you have your application ready? If so, you have now the choice on re-applying before or after May 4. It would not make much difference for you since you don't have to have your Bachelor's degree evaluated (it's a Canadian degree), but you need the 1 year of work experience, there is no other way (I think it's impressive that you have 69 points without any work experience, but having one year of work experience is a must).

So besides eligibility for processing (2 years as full-time PhD student), you need to satisfy the minimum requirements too.

I have a feeling that, if you send your application after May 4, it would actually have faster processing. So it's probably better to wait until May 4? Also, get your supervisor to write you a reference letter with duties and responsibilities for TA/RA (and other things they need as per the checklist). Check the link noc4012 posted for these descriptions.

I unfortunately do not have that one year work experience.
I am not entitled for a research assistant in my hospital (lab) nor TA.
do you by any chance know if FSW phD stream's minimal 1 yr work exp. is gona be not required after May 4th?
Thanks
Atom

 

[asbereth]

So your PhD is not funded? Any form of funding (taxable or non-taxable) would count, provided that these funds are given for you to conduct your research or teaching duties. And yes, you will still need continuous 1,950 hours of work experience (or 1,560 hours, depending whether they will consider 30 or 37.5 hours per week as 'full-time'), even under the new rules.

Also, what did you do in co-op? Did your NOC number fall under either skill level A, B, or O? The requirement that work experience cannot be gained while studying full-time is for CEC, and FSW has no such stipulation (as far as I know), so you may want to give it a shot as well. Keep in mind that it does not guarantee that they will accept your co-op, so it's hard to say. I would still suggest to use your TA/RA, since even a year of TA/RA would still be enough to qualify you above 67 points, provided you max out language points, and have a Canadian degree.

 

[Atom Wang]

So your PhD is not funded? Any form of funding (taxable or non-taxable) would count, provided that these funds are given for you to conduct your research or teaching duties. And yes, you will still need continuous 1,950 hours of work experience (or 1,560 hours, depending whether they will consider 30 or 37.5 hours per week as 'full-time'), even under the new rules.

Also, what did you do in co-op? Did your NOC number fall under either skill level A, B, or O? The requirement that work experience cannot be gained while studying full-time is for CEC, and FSW has no such stipulation (as far as I know), so you may want to give it a shot as well. Keep in mind that it does not guarantee that they will accept your co-op, so it's hard to say. I would still suggest to use your TA/RA, since even a year of TA/RA would still be enough to qualify you above 67 points, provided you max out language points, and have a Canadian degree.

my phd is funded. each yr 27000 CAD. so i guess this counts?
my coop is kinda lame... the first one is i worked at a pharmaceutical company for only 4 months and it is under skill level abo. the second one is a summer studentship, and its funded so its also under RA i guess.

another question is that since there will be more competition after may 4 due to ppl are going to apply also thru unphd stream, shall i still apply before may 4?

 

[asbereth]

my phd is funded. each yr 27000 CAD. so i guess this counts?
my coop is kinda lame... the first one is i worked at a pharmaceutical company for only 4 months and it is under skill level abo. the second one is a summer studentship, and its funded so its also under RA i guess.

another question is that since there will be more competition after may 4 due to ppl are going to apply also thru unphd stream, shall i still apply before may 4?

Yes, if your PhD is funded, then collect all of the T4 and T4A forms you received since the beginning of your PhD, and begin documenting your number of hours.

Ask your supervisor or department head to write you a letter (actually, write the letter yourself, then have them just sign it on department letterhead). This is the most important part of your application, the letter of reference that will contain job descriptions. If you make mistakes here, and A LOT OF PEOPLE did make mistakes on this part, you will be rejected. So draft your letter and share it with us in the PhD stream thread so others can review it.

Regarding the cap, FSWP has a cap of 5,000, but PhD stream has a separate cap of 1,000, which will be reset after May 4, so you're okay in that sense. I suggest you read the following link before you begin your application process

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/apply-who.asp

 

[Atom Wang]

Yes, if your PhD is funded, then collect all of the T4 and T4A forms you received since the beginning of your PhD, and begin documenting your number of hours.

Ask your supervisor or department head to write you a letter (actually, write the letter yourself, then have them just sign it on department letterhead). This is the most important part of your application, the letter of reference that will contain job descriptions. If you make mistakes here, and A LOT OF PEOPLE did make mistakes on this part, you will be rejected. So draft your letter and share it with us in the PhD stream thread so others can review it.

can you explain a little more on the documenting my number of hours part?

for the letter, is there are successful sample letter in the thread u guys mentioned before?
Atom

 

[Atom Wang]

Yes, if your PhD is funded, then collect all of the T4 and T4A forms you received since the beginning of your PhD, and begin documenting your number of hours.

on my T4A the documentation is just a year #...
shall I just write down the an official one year working hour and multiply by 2 (2011 and 2012?)
Atom

 

[asbereth]

can you explain a little more on the documenting my number of hours part?

for the letter, is there are successful sample letter in the thread u guys mentioned before?
Atom

Yes, a lot of members have shared their letter templates for work experience reference letter. I'm assuming that you will apply under NOC 4012, which is TA/RA, and the reason why you will need to document your number of hours is because HR will most likely not have such information, and I think you are funded by a combination of taxable and non-taxable funding.

In most cases, HR can only provide number of hours for taxable parts (maybe TA), but for RA, it is usually non-taxable, and nobody else can give you number of hours except for your supervisor (or department head), so you will have to draft your own letter of reference, have your advisor or department head read it, and if they agree, you have them sign on department letterhead. These requirements are written on the CIC checklist for FSWP, so better check that one out as well. Also, make sure that your job descriptions match those written on the HRSDC website

http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/noc/english/noc/2011/Profile.aspx?val=4&val1=4012