NOC code confusion - NOC 4164 Social policy researchers, consultants and program

[EFK]

I had sent an email to HRSDC to confirm my NOC, and this was their response:

**************************QUOTE******************************
Based on the information that you have provided, the following National Occupational Classification (NOC) code may be appropriate for the occupation that you described.


NOC code 4164 - Social policy researchers, consultants and program officers:

http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2011/QuickSearch.aspx?val65=4164


In addition, please note that the final decision for selecting the most appropriate National Occupational Classification (NOC) code is each individual's responsibility as you know your education, skills and abilities better than anyone else. However, the ultimate decision remains the responsibility of Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) as they are the only ones who have the authority to determine if the information provided meets their criteria.

Our role is only to provide guidance.

Thank you.


*****************************unquote**********************************

It makes me feel like they outright refuse to take any responsibility, and at the end its all about discretion of CIC officers... but that doesn't give me much comfort...

So, to be 100% sure, maybe I can attach this response with my initial email... when I send the application... it may help, in spite of the fact that they themselves seem unsure.. Also, I think its all electronic, so not sure how I will add it as a supporting or extra softcopy scanned email? Anyone has any ideas on that?

thanks

 

[Rebe_2015]

I am in the same situation. I work as a research associate in an international NGO. I hold a BSc. in Food Science and an MSc. in Consumer Studies. Below are my job responsibilities:

DUTIES AND RESPONSIBLITIES
• Development of new food products from food security crops
• Design of survey questionnaires, coordination of surveys, analysis and interpretation of data on consumer acceptance of newly developed food products.
• Writing of survey research reports and publishing in relevant journals
• Providing expertise in quality control/assurance of food products
• Working in collaboration with private sector on food product development and testing
• Working in collaboration with non-governmental organizations and community-based organizations to disseminate technologies on new food products
• Conducting training of trainers workshops and demonstrations on product development, processing and utilization of food security crops.
• Active involvement in the planning, organizing and implementation of international development aid programs
• Preparation of presentation slides to backstop research scientists.

Could anyone advise on the right NOC? I have chosen 4164 - Social policy Researchers but I want to be sure.

Thank you.

 

[EFK]

Did you send them an email to check?
It seems that there are very few people working in international NGOs, but whoever is , has chosen this code (so far I have only seen 3 of us, though I don't think any of us have applied yet...so all going to end up taking a chance)

 

[YokoDaddy]

I'm wondering on this - my spouse has worked at not for profits in policy research and program monitoring and evaluation, for over 10 years and so fits into 4164 like a glove.

Is it more wise to apply with her as the lead and me as the dependent, since i'm applying for a rather more crowded NOC 1123. Anyone who has made any progress with their express entry application on 4164?

 

[EFK]

Everyone says it doesn't matter..even in my case we weren't sure whose should be the PA...so we waited until we both did ielts and got our eca done, calculated points, and decided after that on whoever got the most points.
also, it was much more straightforward for me to get the employment records required....and as per the advice here, employment records for spouse's work experience do not need to be provided if undeclared...so we chose to go ahead with me as PA... I suggest for you to see all the elements and decide that way too..
The most crucial is ielts and total crs score...then u can check employment records, making sure funds in PAs name etc will all just make it easier....
Goodluck

 

[YokoDaddy]

Thanks, that helps !!

 

[YokoDaddy]

Everyone says it doesn't matter..even in my case we weren't sure whose should be the PA...so we waited until we both did ielts and got our eca done, calculated points, and decided after that on whoever got the most points.
also, it was much more straightforward for me to get the employment records required....and as per the advice here, employment records for spouse's work experience do not need to be provided if undeclared...so we chose to go ahead with me as PA... I suggest for you to see all the elements and decide that way too..
The most crucial is ielts and total crs score...then u can check employment records, making sure funds in PAs name etc will all just make it easier....
Goodluck

I need some help here:

My spouse is applying as the primary applicant on 4164. Most of her documents are in place. She obtained a Masters degree in Social Policy and Development in 2012. Post that her related experience has only been a few months in the space, due to a variety of reasons (short-term child protection and policy consultancies, baby etc). But prior to obtaining the degree she worked at an NGO for 7 years as a Project Officer and subsequently Project Director, and her duties correspond to some of those described in 4164 (program planning, implementation etc). My question is- will this 7 year experience be considered even though it is prior to obtaining a degree?

Before she began work she completed a Degree in psychology. Would this 7-year experience still be considered?

 

[EFK]

I don't see why it should really make a difference.
My Bachelor's was in Business Admin.... but I put the "date qualified to work in this job" as the date I received this degree....
The requirements for NOC 4164 are to have a Bachelors degree as per the NOC description... so I put that date.... and I think it should be valid... so the 7 years experience should count....

 

[YokoDaddy]

I don't see why it should really make a difference.
My Bachelor's was in Business Admin.... but I put the "date qualified to work in this job" as the date I received this degree....
The requirements for NOC 4164 are to have a Bachelors degree as per the NOC description... so I put that date.... and I think it should be valid... so the 7 years experience should count....

Thanks a lot

 

[cad143]

Anyone with NOC 4164 here who got a LMIA?

 

[Zooobshah]

Hi ,
Those who applied with 4164...I need to know if you guys went through the process smoothly? I am in the same confusion...needed to get reviews from you people. Thanks

 

[Zooobshah]

I had sent an email to HRSDC to confirm my NOC, and this was their response:

**************************QUOTE******************************
Based on the information that you have provided, the following National Occupational Classification (NOC) code may be appropriate for the occupation that you described.


NOC code 4164 - Social policy researchers, consultants and program officers:

http://www5.hrsdc.gc.ca/NOC/English/NOC/2011/QuickSearch.aspx?val65=4164


In addition, please note that the final decision for selecting the most appropriate National Occupational Classification (NOC) code is each individual's responsibility as you know your education, skills and abilities better than anyone else. However, the ultimate decision remains the responsibility of Citizenship and Immigration Canada (CIC) as they are the only ones who have the authority to determine if the information provided meets their criteria.

Our role is only to provide guidance.

Thank you.


*****************************unquote**********************************

It makes me feel like they outright refuse to take any responsibility, and at the end its all about discretion of CIC officers... but that doesn't give me much comfort...

So, to be 100% sure, maybe I can attach this response with my initial email... when I send the application... it may help, in spite of the fact that they themselves seem unsure.. Also, I think its all electronic, so not sure how I will add it as a supporting or extra softcopy scanned email? Anyone has any ideas on that?

thanks

Hi! Did you go through the process easily with NOC 4164?

 

[Bend]

Hey guys- I wanted to get some clarification on the educational requirements for this NOC 4164. I have an educational background in law, with a mandatory course in policy and another optional one, during my masters degree. Would this be fine? What should I add to support the educational portion of the NOC? Really appreciate your input. Thank you in advance.

 

[neha96]

You're on the right track. There are 2 NOCs which appear to correlate with your work experience.

4164 - NOC A Social policy researchers, consultants and program officers
4212 - NOC B Social and community service workers

The key difference between NOCs A and B are in the educational and experience requirements. Skill Level A represents occupations usually requiring university education. Skill Level B refers to occupations usually requiring college education or apprenticeship training.

Now that appears to narrow it down to NOC 4164 in your case. I believe you should choose NOC 4164 for your experience unless you think that the majority of the Main Duties as described in NOC 4164 do not correspond to your roles and responsibilities.

Eventually, that is what it will boil down to when you start getting your reference letters in place for post ITA submissions. If you can honestly get the majority of the Main Duties listed as your roles & responsibilities at your workplace (of course not a copy-paste job but closely corresponding to each other nonetheless), you have nothing to worry about on this front.

The full list of emergencies will not be a part of any document submission to CIC - they don't care about work accomplishments. Their concern is limited to ascertaining and validating program eligibility and CRS score calculations.

Your choice of when to submit your EE profile must be dictated by 2 factors. Firstly, getting at least 67/100 for FSW eligibility which will benefit from more work experience gained under a single NOC. Secondly, getting as high a CRS score as possible which maxes out at 3 years of foreign work experience outside Canada. Calculate both of these and decide for yourself.

Finally, the brand name of the organization doesn't matter to CIC. You'll get an ITA if you are eligible for the program and your CRS score is higher than the cutoff for that draw. As meritocratic as they come.

Hope that helps. All the best!

Hi

You're on the right track. There are 2 NOCs which appear to correlate with your work experience.

4164 - NOC A Social policy researchers, consultants and program officers
4212 - NOC B Social and community service workers

The key difference between NOCs A and B are in the educational and experience requirements. Skill Level A represents occupations usually requiring university education. Skill Level B refers to occupations usually requiring college education or apprenticeship training.

Now that appears to narrow it down to NOC 4164 in your case. I believe you should choose NOC 4164 for your experience unless you think that the majority of the Main Duties as described in NOC 4164 do not correspond to your roles and responsibilities.

Eventually, that is what it will boil down to when you start getting your reference letters in place for post ITA submissions. If you can honestly get the majority of the Main Duties listed as your roles & responsibilities at your workplace (of course not a copy-paste job but closely corresponding to each other nonetheless), you have nothing to worry about on this front.

The full list of emergencies will not be a part of any document submission to CIC - they don't care about work accomplishments. Their concern is limited to ascertaining and validating program eligibility and CRS score calculations.

Your choice of when to submit your EE profile must be dictated by 2 factors. Firstly, getting at least 67/100 for FSW eligibility which will benefit from more work experience gained under a single NOC. Secondly, getting as high a CRS score as possible which maxes out at 3 years of foreign work experience outside Canada. Calculate both of these and decide for yourself.

Finally, the brand name of the organization doesn't matter to CIC. You'll get an ITA if you are eligible for the program and your CRS score is higher than the cutoff for that draw. As meritocratic as they come.

Hope that helps. All the best!

Hi Asavid. I found your reply to this person's query really helpful. Could you please help me navigate a similar situation? I selected 4164 as my primary NOC but my last two jobs (as Analyst and Associate) have been somewhat in the Environment and CC field. I don't want to change my NOC to natural and applied science researchers at this point since I have received an ITA. I am thinking of writing the roles and responsibilities in the experience letter with a social angle (adding words like ESG) to really keep it relevant to 4164 but still confused and scared that the immigration officer might find it to be an incorrect NOC.