NOC code confusion - NOC 4164 Social policy researchers, consultants and program

[EFK]

I am not sure regarding my NOC:

I work with one of the organizations of the United Nations - my official title is Junior Officer Customer Services, as a consultancy contract (i.e. i'm technically a consultant) Our main job is emergency response and humanitarian deployment...
So I am the first point of contact for all the other aid agencies, government, and NGOs who need to arrange for aid logistics... since all their relief items are stocked at our warehouse due to inter-agency agreements...

Now....2 years ago, my official title was "Senior Assistant Customer Services".. minimum requirement for the official title was only secondary school...I did my MSc in International Development and Humanitarian Work and after a gap of this course time, I have been put on the new title of "Junior Officer Customer Services" - Consultant, as this is considered a more senior position, actually requiring a Bachelor's degree..

The thing is... I work in the Humanitarian Response Unit of a major UN entity.
But my job descriptions / tasks as per contract are more along the lines of customer and interagency communication, arranging for aid deployment immediately coordinating with all others etc....
I do not have field work.


However, I want to reconfirm if I can apply under "NOC 4164 Social policy researchers, consultants and program officers"
People are all telling me its definitely correct and nothing to worry about... esp under the new title...but i'm concerned because...i'm the face of communications for humanitarian deployments..and its a desk job.... i'm not a project manager or any such position, nor do I have field experience...but we work 24 hours and on emergency mode alot..I have a full list of emergencies I have worked for (not sure if that can be included in any document to make it stronger)
I will complete 12 months with this new title in October...though I have over 3 years total doing the same job before my MSc... should I wait until October to send my Expression of Entry under this NOC, or can I send it once my ECA and IELTS will be done by August?

Any help would be greatly appreciated... because I REALLY don't want to mess up on NOC...
and I can't find any other NOC that matches...because I'm not a logistics coordinator, nor customer service or sales in the traditional sense of picking up the phone or trying to sell products etc... my job involves a lot more - its just the titles that they have been working to change for the past 3 years, but not able to change as yet...

Also, at any stage, does the name/ reputation of company make a difference when they send out ITAs? (assuming the basic requirements are all met)

 

[EFK]

Any senior members who can advise on this?

 

[Asivad Anac]

You're on the right track. There are 2 NOCs which appear to correlate with your work experience.

4164 - NOC A Social policy researchers, consultants and program officers
4212 - NOC B Social and community service workers

The key difference between NOCs A and B are in the educational and experience requirements. Skill Level A represents occupations usually requiring university education. Skill Level B refers to occupations usually requiring college education or apprenticeship training.

Now that appears to narrow it down to NOC 4164 in your case. I believe you should choose NOC 4164 for your experience unless you think that the majority of the Main Duties as described in NOC 4164 do not correspond to your roles and responsibilities.

Eventually, that is what it will boil down to when you start getting your reference letters in place for post ITA submissions. If you can honestly get the majority of the Main Duties listed as your roles & responsibilities at your workplace (of course not a copy-paste job but closely corresponding to each other nonetheless), you have nothing to worry about on this front.

The full list of emergencies will not be a part of any document submission to CIC - they don't care about work accomplishments. Their concern is limited to ascertaining and validating program eligibility and CRS score calculations.

Your choice of when to submit your EE profile must be dictated by 2 factors. Firstly, getting at least 67/100 for FSW eligibility which will benefit from more work experience gained under a single NOC. Secondly, getting as high a CRS score as possible which maxes out at 3 years of foreign work experience outside Canada. Calculate both of these and decide for yourself.

Finally, the brand name of the organization doesn't matter to CIC. You'll get an ITA if you are eligible for the program and your CRS score is higher than the cutoff for that draw. As meritocratic as they come.

Hope that helps. All the best!

 

[Nightrocker]

I am not sure regarding my NOC:

I work with one of the organizations of the United Nations - my official title is Junior Officer Customer Services, as a consultancy contract (i.e. i'm technically a consultant) Our main job is emergency response and humanitarian deployment...
So I am the first point of contact for all the other aid agencies, government, and NGOs who need to arrange for aid logistics... since all their relief items are stocked at our warehouse due to inter-agency agreements...

Now....2 years ago, my official title was "Senior Assistant Customer Services".. minimum requirement for the official title was only secondary school...I did my MSc in International Development and Humanitarian Work and after a gap of this course time, I have been put on the new title of "Junior Officer Customer Services" - Consultant, as this is considered a more senior position, actually requiring a Bachelor's degree..

The thing is... I work in the Humanitarian Response Unit of a major UN entity.
But my job descriptions / tasks as per contract are more along the lines of customer and interagency communication, arranging for aid deployment immediately coordinating with all others etc....
I do not have field work.


However, I want to reconfirm if I can apply under "NOC 4164 Social policy researchers, consultants and program officers"
People are all telling me its definitely correct and nothing to worry about... esp under the new title...but i'm concerned because...i'm the face of communications for humanitarian deployments..and its a desk job.... i'm not a project manager or any such position, nor do I have field experience...but we work 24 hours and on emergency mode alot..I have a full list of emergencies I have worked for (not sure if that can be included in any document to make it stronger)
I will complete 12 months with this new title in October...though I have over 3 years total doing the same job before my MSc... should I wait until October to send my Expression of Entry under this NOC, or can I send it once my ECA and IELTS will be done by August?

Any help would be greatly appreciated... because I REALLY don't want to mess up on NOC...
and I can't find any other NOC that matches...because I'm not a logistics coordinator, nor customer service or sales in the traditional sense of picking up the phone or trying to sell products etc... my job involves a lot more - its just the titles that they have been working to change for the past 3 years, but not able to change as yet...

Also, at any stage, does the name/ reputation of company make a difference when they send out ITAs? (assuming the basic requirements are all met)

I think if you share a detailed list of your job responsibilities, we may be able to help you. Is your job in Canada?

You can create your express entry profile as soon as you receive your IELTS and ECA results. And mention in the profile that this is your current employment, and your score will automatically updated in October when you complete third year on this job.

 

[EFK]

Thankyou for the above..
Yes maybe I will submit it...let me see when my TEF result will be ready and can finalize accordingly.

My job tasks are as below:
(Deleted from public forum for privacy reasons.. will be happy to PM in case anyone can provide further guidance on the matter)


The above is directly from my paperwork - I'm not sure if one can make out by reading it, but my role acts as the "steering wheel" for the aid deployment...We procure and perform logistics for humanitarian aid for numerous top NGOs ...my clients include WHO, governments and other UN agencies who I'm in contact with regularly..

pls advise..

thanks,

 

[EFK]

?

 

[sam_172452]

You're on the right track. There are 2 NOCs which appear to correlate with your work experience.

4164 - NOC A Social policy researchers, consultants and program officers
4212 - NOC B Social and community service workers

The key difference between NOCs A and B are in the educational and experience requirements. Skill Level A represents occupations usually requiring university education. Skill Level B refers to occupations usually requiring college education or apprenticeship training.

Now that appears to narrow it down to NOC 4164 in your case. I believe you should choose NOC 4164 for your experience unless you think that the majority of the Main Duties as described in NOC 4164 do not correspond to your roles and responsibilities.

Eventually, that is what it will boil down to when you start getting your reference letters in place for post ITA submissions. If you can honestly get the majority of the Main Duties listed as your roles & responsibilities at your workplace (of course not a copy-paste job but closely corresponding to each other nonetheless), you have nothing to worry about on this front.

The full list of emergencies will not be a part of any document submission to CIC - they don't care about work accomplishments. Their concern is limited to ascertaining and validating program eligibility and CRS score calculations.

Your choice of when to submit your EE profile must be dictated by 2 factors. Firstly, getting at least 67/100 for FSW eligibility which will benefit from more work experience gained under a single NOC. Secondly, getting as high a CRS score as possible which maxes out at 3 years of foreign work experience outside Canada. Calculate both of these and decide for yourself.

Finally, the brand name of the organization doesn't matter to CIC. You'll get an ITA if you are eligible for the program and your CRS score is higher than the cutoff for that draw. As meritocratic as they come.

Hope that helps. All the best!

Asivad, my job title and the employer I work with usually require Masters degrees (something I currently hold). However, when I was writing the reference letter I found an NOC in Level B that reflects my day to day roles and responsibilities much more than the NOC level A one.

Basically my title is 'Environmental Consultant' and when I sat down with my line manager we found that:

NOC 2263 - Inspector in Environmental Health and Public Health (NOC B) corresponds much more than
NOC 4161- Natural and applied science policy researchers, consultants and program officers (NOC A)

My IELTs scores are high enough for both A and B.

Do you think I may face issues on why I went with NOC 2263 even though my education and job title both indicate NOC 4161?

 

[Asivad Anac]

Asivad, my job title and the employer I work with usually require Masters degrees (something I currently hold). However, when I was writing the reference letter I found an NOC in Level B that reflects my day to day roles and responsibilities much more than the NOC level A one.

Basically my title is 'Environmental Consultant' and when I sat down with my line manager we found that:

NOC 2263 - Inspector in Environmental Health and Public Health (NOC B) corresponds much more than
NOC 4161- Natural and applied science policy researchers, consultants and program officers (NOC A)

My IELTs scores are high enough for both A and B.

Do you think I may face issues on why I went with NOC 2263 even though my education and job title both indicate NOC 4161?

Not really as long as there is high degree of correspondence between the Main Duties of the NOC and your roles and responsibilities.

I would advise you to spend some more time on this and think it through before deciding on your NOC. Look at the typical differences between NOC a and B below taken from CIC. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=661&t=6

Skill Level A

These occupations require a university degree (bachelor’s, master’s or doctorate). For example, such occupations would include physicians, nurses, pharmacists, engineers, etc.

Skill Level B

These occupations generally require

two to three years of post-secondary education at community college, institute of technology or CÉGEP, or
two to five years of apprenticeship training, or
three to four years of secondary school and more than two years of on-the-job training, or
occupation-specific training courses or specific work experience.


I find it surprising that someone with a Masters degree would find more correspondence with the duties of a NOC B job. Nothing demeaning or offensive about it but just very surprising. Do think it through. It doesn't make any difference to your EE application which NOC you choose though.

All the best!

 

[sam_172452]

Not really as long as there is high degree of correspondence between the Main Duties of the NOC and your roles and responsibilities.

I would advise you to spend some more time on this and think it through before deciding on your NOC. Look at the typical differences between NOC a and B below taken from CIC. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=661&t=6

Skill Level A

These occupations require a university degree (bachelor's, master's or doctorate). For example, such occupations would include physicians, nurses, pharmacists, engineers, etc.

Skill Level B

These occupations generally require

two to three years of post-secondary education at community college, institute of technology or CÉGEP, or
two to five years of apprenticeship training, or
three to four years of secondary school and more than two years of on-the-job training, or
occupation-specific training courses or specific work experience.


I find it surprising that someone with a Masters degree would find more correspondence with the duties of a NOC B job. Nothing demeaning or offensive about it but just very surprising. Do think it through. It doesn't make any difference to your EE application which NOC you choose though.

All the best!

I have already submitted my application and chose the NOC that belongs to level B. I even consulted the opinion of an immigration lawyer.

I'm an Environmental Consultant (title belongs to NOC A) but my day to day duties are 75% that of NOC 2263 (which is NOC level B).

My company provided a two page experience letter on the matter. The letter even recognises that they see an overlap with both NOCs but they believe that NOC 2263 is the one that best reflects my tasks due to the audits I conduct.

 

[Asivad Anac]

I have already submitted my application and chose the NOC that belongs to level B. I even consulted the opinion of an immigration lawyer.

I'm an Environmental Consultant (title belongs to NOC A) but my day to day duties are 75% that of NOC 2263 (which is NOC level B).

My company provided a two page experience letter on the matter. The letter even recognises that they see an overlap with both NOCs but they believe that NOC 2263 is the one that best reflects my tasks due to the audits I conduct.

Like I said, I'm just surprised. That's all. With that level of detail in your work reference letter, you're well set.

All the best!

 

[sam_172452]

Like I said, I'm just surprised. That's all. With that level of detail in your work reference letter, you're well set.

All the best!

Thank you Asivad for your constant help and support to everyone on this forum. You are a legend here.

I was just wondering if, in your opinion, CIC would not agree with my chosen NOC even though my company mentioned that they see an overlap of my duties with both NOCs but they have chosen the level B one. Is this a likely possibility?

 

[Asivad Anac]

Thank you Asivad for your constant help and support to everyone on this forum. You are a legend here.

I was just wondering if, in your opinion, CIC would not agree with my chosen NOC even though my company mentioned that they see an overlap of my duties with both NOCs but they have chosen the level B one. Is this a likely possibility?

Unlikely. CIC would just check if it matches your roles & responsibilities and I believe you've covered your bases well enough.

 

[EFK]

O wow thankyou so much Asivad..I agree..you really are a legend..was so happy to see when you had replied..your posts have been soo helpful over the past few days...
so I think I will continue with the above NOC..the main reason I didn't choose the 2nd option is because that focuses more on families, counselling etc... will stick with 4164...
so then maybe will apply in October when I complete 1 year under new title and receive my TEF scores... will see what my IELTS is before that I guess..

thankyou so much!!
incase anyone has further comments or advice, pls feel freee..

 

[sam_172452]

Hello All,

I thought I would share with you the response I got from a very pricey immigration lawyer. She usually doesn't answer individual questions and only takes cases. However, she kindly provided me with the answer below on choosing NOC codes. Her response is specific to my case but can also be applied on anyone struggling to choose the correct NOC code.

There is often overlap between NOC codes, and you likely do both. That being said, 4161 does not describe the investigations and inspections and sampling you conduct, which are covered by 2263.

In the end, you need to demonstrate that in your occupation, you meet the definition of the lead paragraph and the main duties.

Hope this is helpful to anyone who may need it

Cheers,

Sam

 

[Feranmi]

please which is the correct NOC FOR A MARKETER IN THE BANK? TNX