NOC 4169 -- with just 1 sentence description of duty

[ybjianada]

Hi guys,

I was wondering if anyone has applied under NOC 4169 (Other professional occupations in social science, n.e.c). See the quoted text at the end of the post for details. It is a Level A NOC, and so would qualify the person for EE.

This NOC encompasses a variety of social science disciplines (anthropologists, historians, etc). In the Main Duties section, each discipline is described very briefly, in just 1-2 sentences. For instance, my discipline - linguistics, is this:

'Linguists study the origin, structure and development of languages and apply linguistic theory to problems in teaching, translation and communications.'

My question is, when the duty description is just 1 sentence, what does this mean for the job reference letter? How would the Visa Officer evaluate whether the duties/responsibilities in a job reference letter match this NOC, when the main duty description listed on hrsdc.gov.ca is so short?

Would it be too risky to pick this NOC?

My basic situation is that I am a postdoc, and I have read advice that postdocs should pick an NOC that matches their disciplines (e.g., chemist,etc), rather than NOC 4012 (Teaching and Research Assistants) or NOC 4011 (Professors or Lecturers). See this post:

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/share-my-gcms-notesloe-does-not-match-main-dutiesneed-your-help-t279319.0.html

Thanks!!!

NOC 4169 Other professional occupations in social science, n.e.c.
This unit group includes anthropologists, archaeologists, geographers, historians, linguists, political scientists, sociologists and other professional occupations in social science not elsewhere classified. They are employed in universities and throughout the public and private sectors.

Example Titles
anthropologist
archaeologist
geographer
gerontologist
historian
linguist
political scientist
psychometrist
sociologist

Main duties

The following is a summary of main duties for some occupations in this unit group:

Anthropologists conduct studies of the origin, development and functioning of human societies and cultures and of human evolution, changing physical characteristics and geographical distribution.
Archaeologists study artifacts (objects and structures) to reconstruct past economic, social, political and intellectual life.
Geographers study and analyse the spatial distribution and interrelationship of physical, biological, cultural and social patterns.
Historians conduct research into one or more phases or aspects of past human activity and interpret and document findings.
Linguists study the origin, structure and development of languages and apply linguistic theory to problems in teaching, translation and communications.
Political scientists conduct research into the theory, origin, development, interrelationships and functioning of political institutions, political movements and individual political behaviour.
Psychometricians develop psychological tests, scales and measures, and may administer or apply and interpret such tests, scales and measures. Psychometrists administer and score psychological tests, usually under the supervision of a registered psychologist.
Sociologists study the development, structure, social patterns and interrelationships of human society.
Other social science professionals included in this group specialize in particular areas of social sciences and humanities disciplines. These include criminologists (specialists in the study of crime and criminals), gerontologists (specialists in the phenomena and problems of ageing), graphoanalysts (specialists in handwriting analysis) and others.

Specialization usually exists within each of these occupations.

 

[ybjianada]

Anyone with any insights or suggestions on this?

 

[MooseNBooze]

Interesting issue. I am bumping so that others can chime in. My two cents:

Re: the first issue you raise abt short official description, that in itself shouldn't be of much concern as long as your LOR lists duties that could be summarized by the short description.

Re: the second issue abt which NOC to go with, I would say that 4012 may be a good match but I can also see how other relevant NOCs could work, depending on how the LOR is crafted. I invite others to offer their opinions or, even better, to share their experiences.

Best wishes to OP.

 

[ybjianada]

Thank you MooseNBooze for your reply.

I have since written to the National Occupational Classification (NOC) Team, with the job responsibilities in my work experience letter, also stating that I have a PhD in linguistics, and am working as a postdoc. I asked for their advice on choosing an appropriate NOC. They just replied, suggesting the code NOC 4012, which is what you suggested below, and which is also what I picked for my EE profile to begin with. They also said however that the final decision on NOC in PR applications lies in CIC.

I suppose I will go with NOC 4012 then. My question now then is whether I need to mention to CIC the fact that I contacted the NOC team who suggested this NOC code. I am thinking about this as it seems that PR applications are usually rejected without giving the applicants the chance to submit further documentations/info. Therefore, it might be advantageous to try to submit as much info as possible in the first place, especially when potential problems are anticipated. On the other hand, the disadvantage of including this information could be that the VO might potentially perceive this as 'undermining his/her authority' in deciding on the NOC issue. There are 3 options then:

1. Just submit the application without referring to the contact with the NOC team.
2. Submit the application with LOE stating that I was having trouble finding the right NOC code and that the options were NOC 4011, 4012, 4169. That I ultimately picked 4012 after consultation with the NOC team, but mention I understand that CIC has the ultimate authority in deciding on this issue. (The advantage in mentioning the 3 options would be that if the VO does not consider 4012 to be the right NOC, then s/he has the other 2 suggestions to re-assess my application on, if that is what they do at all).
3. Do #2, but also attach a printout of the email reply from the NOC team.

Could you, or other forum members let me know what you think? My deadline for submitting the e-APR is a few days away...

Interesting issue. I am bumping so that others can chime in. My two cents:

Re: the first issue you raise abt short official description, that in itself shouldn't be of much concern as long as your LOR lists duties that could be summarized by the short description.

Re: the second issue abt which NOC to go with, I would say that 4012 may be a good match but I can also see how other relevant NOCs could work, depending on how the LOR is crafted. I invite others to offer their opinions or, even better, to share their experiences.

Best wishes to OP.

 

[Asivad Anac]

There are 3 options then:

1. Just submit the application without referring to the contact with the NOC team.
2. Submit the application with LOE stating that I was having trouble finding the right NOC code and that the options were NOC 4011, 4012, 4169. That I ultimately picked 4012 after consultation with the NOC team, but mention I understand that CIC has the ultimate authority in deciding on this issue. (The advantage in mentioning the 3 options would be that if the VO does not consider 4012 to be the right NOC, then s/he has the other 2 suggestions to re-assess my application on, if that is what they do at all).
3. Do #2, but also attach a printout of the email reply from the NOC team.

Could you, or other forum members let me know what you think? My deadline for submitting the e-APR is a few days away...

Go with #3.

No risk of 'undermining his/her authority' here. It is an applicant's responsibility to choose (what they think) is the most appropriate NOC and the officer's responsibility to ascertain if the choice of NOC is accurate. Getting support from the NOC team is perfectly warranted which will not be considered negatively by the officer assessing your application. If anything, it might add some weight to your NOC selection.

Also, the officer is unlikely to edit your application and consider any other NOC even if you list 2 other NOCs along with the chosen NOC. If your choice of NOC is incorrect, they will refuse your application and ask you to apply again.

 

[ybjianada]

Thanks! #3 it is then!
And since they won't consider the other NOCs, I won't mention those after all, to keep the letter simple.

Go with #3.

No risk of 'undermining his/her authority' here. It is an applicant's responsibility to choose (what they think) is the most appropriate NOC and the officer's responsibility to ascertain if the choice of NOC is accurate. Getting support from the NOC team is perfectly warranted which will not be considered negatively by the officer assessing your application. If anything, it might add some weight to your NOC selection.

Also, the officer is unlikely to edit your application and consider any other NOC even if you list 2 other NOCs along with the chosen NOC. If your choice of NOC is incorrect, they will refuse your application and ask you to apply again.

 

[YUPPPP]

Go with #3.

No risk of 'undermining his/her authority' here. It is an applicant's responsibility to choose (what they think) is the most appropriate NOC and the officer's responsibility to ascertain if the choice of NOC is accurate. Getting support from the NOC team is perfectly warranted which will not be considered negatively by the officer assessing your application. If anything, it might add some weight to your NOC selection.

Also, the officer is unlikely to edit your application and consider any other NOC even if you list 2 other NOCs along with the chosen NOC. If your choice of NOC is incorrect, they will refuse your application and ask you to apply again.

Hello There

How do one contact NOC team?

Thank you

F

 

[CanadaWeCome]

Hello There

How do one contact NOC team?

Thank you

F

Via. email NC-NOC-CNP-GD2@hrsdc-rhdcc.gc.ca

 

[LoopyL]

Not sure about 4012 if it still has the line about needing to be a full time student as part of the criteria. I think I found a thread on here somewhere where that seemed to be the case. I have put 2121 down even though it has a very limited vague description. If you are already a postdoc them I assume you are not still a full time student? It is all very confusing!

 

[YUPPPP]

Via. email NC-NOC-CNP-GD2@hrsdc-rhdcc.gc.ca

thank you!