Yes but you couldn't with all passports. That doesn't make other passports non travel documents.
Insane pointless argument.
Nexus Card Impact
- Thread starter walmzd
- Start date
Insane pointless argument.
It certainly doesn't take the place of a passport - not even close. Passport is still required for the vast majority of travel. Although it would certainly be nice if it could be used that way...
For the vast majority of travel you are correct. But - my point - it's still technically a travel document.
No disagreement there. It's definitely a travel document. Certainly not the equivalent of a passport - but definitely a travel document.
Fact: A NEXUS card is a travel document.
Other travel documents include passport cards, border crossing cards, enhanced tribal cards, INAC cards, enhanced IDs/drivers licences, laissez passers, and certificates of identity. A travel document is any government issued document with a primary purpose of facilitating international travel.
Citizenship applicants are required to present all such documents in their possession [that were valid for the period being reviewed] to IRCC when applying for citizenship.
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Well, I think you are right. I have forgotten to hand in a copy of my Nexus card nor did I mention it during my interview. I think it is fair to assume though that they were aware of my Nexus card. It should be in their system. Nevertheless, it did not make a difference for me. I passed the interview and now decision is made. Awaiting oath invitation.
Yes I am now aware of it, but were not during my interview. Also...frankly...they should have mentioned it in their document requirement list. They mention all sorts of things but no word of Nexus card, that's why I did not even think about it.
Few hours ago you said nexus card was assuredly a travel document, now you say it is "technically a travel document"! Soon you will call it Frequent border crosser club card!
I am not sure what you are trying to say? You are contradicting yourself! I agree with your definition of a travel document, but that very definition contradicts the your assertion that Nexus card is a travel document! Quoting http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/prog/nexus/faq-eng.html "NEXUS is a bi-national, Canada-United States program for etc,etc..." Another point, what is the primary purpose of enhanced driver's license? Operation of a motor vehicle or international travel or just as ID? If you treat primary purpose of an enhanced driver license as motor vehicle operation, it is cannot be a travel document per your definition, can it?
As cliched it might sound, you have right to your opinions, but not facts? I shared my opinion, whereas you are trying to pass off your opinion as fact by using bold and large font!!!
During my interview, they compared some printouts(guess they were from CBSA) with stamps on my passports. They paid absolutely no attention to the visas on my passports or anything else. In the same vein,I guess they are not interested in Nexus card at all. The citizenship application document checklist is ambiguous. It says biographical pages of passports and/or travel documents. It may be that I am obsessing with "and/or", a computer programmer's habit I guess!
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Your quote establishes, by the very use of the word "bi-national", that NEXUS is a travel document for "bi-national" travel.
I said facilitating international travel is "a" primary purpose of an enhanced drivers' licence, not "the" primary purpose. Please feel free to reread my original post and look up the difference between "a" and "the" in a dictionary.
You obviously suffer from a severe mental health issue - so I'll leave it there.Few hours ago you said nexus card was assuredly a travel document, now you say it is "technically a travel document"! Soon you will call it Frequent border crosser club card!
I am not sure what you are trying to say? You are contradicting yourself! I agree with your definition of a travel document, but that very definition contradicts the your assertion that Nexus card is a travel document! Quoting http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/prog/nexus/faq-eng.html "NEXUS is a bi-national, Canada-United States program for etc,etc..." Another point, what is the primary purpose of enhanced driver's license? Operation of a motor vehicle or international travel or just as ID? If you treat primary purpose of an enhanced driver license as motor vehicle operation, it is cannot be a travel document per your definition, can it?
As cliched it might sound, you have right to your opinions, but not facts? I shared my opinion, whereas you are trying to pass off your opinion as fact by using bold and large font!!!
During my interview, they compared some printouts(guess they were from CBSA) with stamps on my passports. They paid absolutely no attention to the visas on my passports or anything else. In the same vein,I guess they are not interested in Nexus card at all. The citizenship application document checklist is ambiguous. It says biographical pages of passports and/or travel documents. It may be that I am obsessing with "and/or", a computer programmer's habit I guess!
There is little need to wander deep into the weeds about labeling the NEXUS card a travel document or not. The impact on citizenship application processing, due to being a NEXUS participant, does not depend on whether the travel document label applies or not.
Since almost all indications are that IRCC, like CIC before, will dramatically elevate scrutiny and skepticism if an applicant fails to present any travel document when applying for citizenship, and it appears that many (if not most) NEXUS participants applying for citizenship have not, do not, provide a copy of the NEXUS card in response to item 6.d. in the application, without that resulting in the kind of elevated scrutiny the failure to present a travel document ordinarily has, my impression is that processing agents and Citizenship Officers do not view the NEXUS card as a travel document.
While NEXUS participants are probably at some greater risk for elevated scrutiny, greater than the risk for most applicants, I have seen no reports that applicants who do not include a copy of their NEXUS card with the application have been required to submit one let alone challenged about having failed to provide a copy.
For example, year in and out there are Federal Court decisions highlighting CIC and IRCC concerns rooted in or at least related to an applicant's failure to present a travel document, even if the applicant subsequently does, after being specifically requested, present the additional travel document or documents. The mere suspicion that an applicant might possibly have a travel document which has not been presented often looms as a negative element in the officially published decisions in actual cases. NEVER seen any such concerns expressed about or related to NEXUS.
What impact having NEXUS might have is a totally separate question from whether it is a "travel document." Like many such matters, the impact almost certainly depends on a lot of other factors, ranging from frequency of use to travel patterns, reasons for travel, and many other contextual circumstances. That is, I doubt that being a NEXUS participant, in and of itself, has much impact. Rather, its influence will be entangled in other related and concurrent circumstances and factors.
Thus, for example, both forum anecdotal reports and the Federal Court decisions reflect cases in which a NEXUS participant ran into not merely RQ but into more severely elevated scrutiny and skepticism, where the applicant's situation otherwise included indications of extensive, ongoing ties in the U.S.
Since its purpose is to facilitate convenient border crossing for frequent travelers, having NEXUS itself at the least somewhat suggests some strong ties in the U.S., as in strong ties in a country other than Canada, which almost necessarily requires IRCC to more closely examine and verify the applicant's presence in Canada. But again, its actual impact will almost certainly be entangled in other circumstances and factors, the extent to which the individual's history, travels, and other ties, raise some reason to question the applicant's declared presence in Canada.
In any event, my understanding, in particular, is that the NEXUS card is NOT a travel document and is merely a document identifying the individual as a participant in the NEXUS program which facilitates convenience in crossing the U.S. and Canadian border.
It is NOT listed as a travel document by IRCC at the page which lists what is a travel document:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/passport/travel-documents/types.asp
NEXUS is listed at another IRCC web page listing various "travel documents" (see https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/documents ), but so is the International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis (clearly not a travel document, as that term is used in the instruction to submit a copy of the biographical pages of any "travel documents" the applicant has . . . even though it would meet the Wikipedia definition of a travel document, that is a document primarily used to facilitate international travel) as is the International Driving Permit (likewise clearly not a "travel document" for citizenship application purposes).
Also referenced at this page is the PR card. The PR card is NOT a travel document. It is a status document, as is the Certificate of Canadian citizenship, which likewise is listed at this page and which is explicitly NOT a travel document. The PR card probably meets the Wikipedia definition of a travel document, since it is primarily used to facilitate boarding an international flight to travel to Canada, but again it is defined to be a status document, not a travel document (of course a copy of it must be submitted with the application, to document the applicant's PR status).
SUMMARY:
My understanding is that the requirement to submit biographical pages of all travel documents does NOT require the applicant to submit a copy of his or her NEXUS card.
Being a participant in the NEXUS program suggests frequent travel abroad, and thus could have some influence in how thoroughly or closely IRCC examines a citizenship applicant's presence in Canada. In conjunction with other circumstances, travel history, indications of ties abroad, the NEXUS participant may indeed be at a significantly higher risk of being issued a CIT 0520 (RQ-lite) or a CIT 0171 (full-blown RQ), but the extent of that risk most likely depends on the individual's particular circumstances as much as, probably more than, the fact of being a NEXUS participant.
Conclusions Based On Anecdotal Experience:
Edit to add this reminder: what an interviewer focuses on and does not focus on in a particular person's experience only shows how it CAN go, not how it will go for someone else, not what will necessarily happen or not happen.
For example, while an interviewer might pay no attention to visas in the applicant's passport, for some applicants IRCC may indeed focus particular attention on visas in the applicant's passport. Regarding this, make no mistake, the applicant who failed to disclose permanent resident status in another country, as required in the application, who shows up at the interview with a passport that includes a visa showing permanent residence status in another country, is bound to get some rather negative attention due to this.
One of the most common errors in forums like this is advice based on personal experience which fails to consider the potential variables which can affect how things go for other individuals in their particular situations.
Since almost all indications are that IRCC, like CIC before, will dramatically elevate scrutiny and skepticism if an applicant fails to present any travel document when applying for citizenship, and it appears that many (if not most) NEXUS participants applying for citizenship have not, do not, provide a copy of the NEXUS card in response to item 6.d. in the application, without that resulting in the kind of elevated scrutiny the failure to present a travel document ordinarily has, my impression is that processing agents and Citizenship Officers do not view the NEXUS card as a travel document.
While NEXUS participants are probably at some greater risk for elevated scrutiny, greater than the risk for most applicants, I have seen no reports that applicants who do not include a copy of their NEXUS card with the application have been required to submit one let alone challenged about having failed to provide a copy.
For example, year in and out there are Federal Court decisions highlighting CIC and IRCC concerns rooted in or at least related to an applicant's failure to present a travel document, even if the applicant subsequently does, after being specifically requested, present the additional travel document or documents. The mere suspicion that an applicant might possibly have a travel document which has not been presented often looms as a negative element in the officially published decisions in actual cases. NEVER seen any such concerns expressed about or related to NEXUS.
What impact having NEXUS might have is a totally separate question from whether it is a "travel document." Like many such matters, the impact almost certainly depends on a lot of other factors, ranging from frequency of use to travel patterns, reasons for travel, and many other contextual circumstances. That is, I doubt that being a NEXUS participant, in and of itself, has much impact. Rather, its influence will be entangled in other related and concurrent circumstances and factors.
Thus, for example, both forum anecdotal reports and the Federal Court decisions reflect cases in which a NEXUS participant ran into not merely RQ but into more severely elevated scrutiny and skepticism, where the applicant's situation otherwise included indications of extensive, ongoing ties in the U.S.
Since its purpose is to facilitate convenient border crossing for frequent travelers, having NEXUS itself at the least somewhat suggests some strong ties in the U.S., as in strong ties in a country other than Canada, which almost necessarily requires IRCC to more closely examine and verify the applicant's presence in Canada. But again, its actual impact will almost certainly be entangled in other circumstances and factors, the extent to which the individual's history, travels, and other ties, raise some reason to question the applicant's declared presence in Canada.
In any event, my understanding, in particular, is that the NEXUS card is NOT a travel document and is merely a document identifying the individual as a participant in the NEXUS program which facilitates convenience in crossing the U.S. and Canadian border.
It is NOT listed as a travel document by IRCC at the page which lists what is a travel document:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/passport/travel-documents/types.asp
NEXUS is listed at another IRCC web page listing various "travel documents" (see https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/documents ), but so is the International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis (clearly not a travel document, as that term is used in the instruction to submit a copy of the biographical pages of any "travel documents" the applicant has . . . even though it would meet the Wikipedia definition of a travel document, that is a document primarily used to facilitate international travel) as is the International Driving Permit (likewise clearly not a "travel document" for citizenship application purposes).
Also referenced at this page is the PR card. The PR card is NOT a travel document. It is a status document, as is the Certificate of Canadian citizenship, which likewise is listed at this page and which is explicitly NOT a travel document. The PR card probably meets the Wikipedia definition of a travel document, since it is primarily used to facilitate boarding an international flight to travel to Canada, but again it is defined to be a status document, not a travel document (of course a copy of it must be submitted with the application, to document the applicant's PR status).
SUMMARY:
My understanding is that the requirement to submit biographical pages of all travel documents does NOT require the applicant to submit a copy of his or her NEXUS card.
Being a participant in the NEXUS program suggests frequent travel abroad, and thus could have some influence in how thoroughly or closely IRCC examines a citizenship applicant's presence in Canada. In conjunction with other circumstances, travel history, indications of ties abroad, the NEXUS participant may indeed be at a significantly higher risk of being issued a CIT 0520 (RQ-lite) or a CIT 0171 (full-blown RQ), but the extent of that risk most likely depends on the individual's particular circumstances as much as, probably more than, the fact of being a NEXUS participant.
Conclusions Based On Anecdotal Experience:
Edit to add this reminder: what an interviewer focuses on and does not focus on in a particular person's experience only shows how it CAN go, not how it will go for someone else, not what will necessarily happen or not happen.
For example, while an interviewer might pay no attention to visas in the applicant's passport, for some applicants IRCC may indeed focus particular attention on visas in the applicant's passport. Regarding this, make no mistake, the applicant who failed to disclose permanent resident status in another country, as required in the application, who shows up at the interview with a passport that includes a visa showing permanent residence status in another country, is bound to get some rather negative attention due to this.
One of the most common errors in forums like this is advice based on personal experience which fails to consider the potential variables which can affect how things go for other individuals in their particular situations.
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I would consider the NEXUS card a travel document. Whether or not IRCC/CIC knows or cares is potentially another story, but if I were to apply for something with a government and they asked for photocopies of my travel documents, I would include the NEXUS card.
NEXUS is run by US CBP & CBSA. The computer systems for the two countries separate; if you, say, get a work permit for Canada, when you go to a NEXUS office the US CBP officers will enter the data in their computers and the CBSA officers will put it in theirs. The two agencies just coordinate on the screening/approval of people for the program.
There is also a disconnect between NEXUS and the general systems used at secondary immigration by CBSA officers. If something in the NEXUS system flags you for secondary, the reason for it is not always obvious at Immigration I. Example: I entered Canada with a work permit that was expiring in six days (I had a return ticket to the US before expiration and planned to apply for a new one upon my next entry). IMM 1-1 receipt pops out of the NEXUS kiosk and when I get to Immigration I, the officer asks me for the purpose of my visit and looks up my passport and says "I don't see anything". (Turns out that a few weeks before your work permit expires, NEXUS automatically blocks you to secondary immigration; you can only get the block removed by visiting a NEXUS office. The NEXUS computer systems are separate from the ones that secondary officers used). The system used by secondary officers is integrated with CIC/IRCC to some degree, because they can issue work permits under NAFTA at their terminals, and those are issued by IRCC/CIC at the discretion of the CBSA officer.
But even the systems of IRCC/CIC are not fully integrated as discussed in the eTA thread. GCMS (where most documents/interactions are tracked, including applications for citizenship) is not fully integrated with the Canadian passport systems (which IRCC/CIC inherited a few years ago from Passport Canada). If someone naturalizes as a Canadian citizen, then the naturalization is in GCMS, and if the person were to try to apply for an eTA, the system would automatically drop it. If they were born as a Canadian citizen instead (jus soli, birth in Canada) and their proof of citizenship is a provincial birth certificate, then no record exists in GCMS, and if the person has other interactions with IRCC/CIC (e.g. applying for an electronic travel authorization) the system doesn't automatically detect this if they were to apply for an eTA with a foreign travel document.
Short version:
1) NEXUS is a travel document because you can travel internationally and clear the US/Canadian border both ways in lieu of a passport.
2) IRCC/CIC issues passports, but CBSA (a separate agency) issues NEXUS cards. It's highly unlikely that IRCC/CIC is aware if a given citizen is a member of NEXUS or not.
3) Applications without the NEXUS card (copy) as a travel document might be approved because IRCC/CIC doesn't know about it, but it would not hurt to include it.
4) Since CBSA and US CBP conduct the background check for NEXUS and IRCC/CIC work on the background check for citizenship, it's highly unlikely that including the NEXUS card in a citizenship application will do anything to reduce the processing time.
The NEXUS card does not eliminate the need to have a valid passport, but you can travel between the US and Canada with only a NEXUS card (I wouldn't recommend it on the US side as a lot of TSA screeners and airline gate agents for non-Canadian airlines are not aware of this).
NEXUS is run by US CBP & CBSA. The computer systems for the two countries separate; if you, say, get a work permit for Canada, when you go to a NEXUS office the US CBP officers will enter the data in their computers and the CBSA officers will put it in theirs. The two agencies just coordinate on the screening/approval of people for the program.
There is also a disconnect between NEXUS and the general systems used at secondary immigration by CBSA officers. If something in the NEXUS system flags you for secondary, the reason for it is not always obvious at Immigration I. Example: I entered Canada with a work permit that was expiring in six days (I had a return ticket to the US before expiration and planned to apply for a new one upon my next entry). IMM 1-1 receipt pops out of the NEXUS kiosk and when I get to Immigration I, the officer asks me for the purpose of my visit and looks up my passport and says "I don't see anything". (Turns out that a few weeks before your work permit expires, NEXUS automatically blocks you to secondary immigration; you can only get the block removed by visiting a NEXUS office. The NEXUS computer systems are separate from the ones that secondary officers used). The system used by secondary officers is integrated with CIC/IRCC to some degree, because they can issue work permits under NAFTA at their terminals, and those are issued by IRCC/CIC at the discretion of the CBSA officer.
But even the systems of IRCC/CIC are not fully integrated as discussed in the eTA thread. GCMS (where most documents/interactions are tracked, including applications for citizenship) is not fully integrated with the Canadian passport systems (which IRCC/CIC inherited a few years ago from Passport Canada). If someone naturalizes as a Canadian citizen, then the naturalization is in GCMS, and if the person were to try to apply for an eTA, the system would automatically drop it. If they were born as a Canadian citizen instead (jus soli, birth in Canada) and their proof of citizenship is a provincial birth certificate, then no record exists in GCMS, and if the person has other interactions with IRCC/CIC (e.g. applying for an electronic travel authorization) the system doesn't automatically detect this if they were to apply for an eTA with a foreign travel document.
Short version:
1) NEXUS is a travel document because you can travel internationally and clear the US/Canadian border both ways in lieu of a passport.
2) IRCC/CIC issues passports, but CBSA (a separate agency) issues NEXUS cards. It's highly unlikely that IRCC/CIC is aware if a given citizen is a member of NEXUS or not.
3) Applications without the NEXUS card (copy) as a travel document might be approved because IRCC/CIC doesn't know about it, but it would not hurt to include it.
4) Since CBSA and US CBP conduct the background check for NEXUS and IRCC/CIC work on the background check for citizenship, it's highly unlikely that including the NEXUS card in a citizenship application will do anything to reduce the processing time.
If we want to get technical on what a travel document is, it's a document that is accepted for the purpose of crossing international borders. In that sense, the NEXUS card allows someone to travel by air, land, or sea across the Canadian and US borders. An enhanced drivers license also permits this, even though its primary purpose is for motor vehicle operation - the distinction is that the EDL is given an RFID chip and machine readable zone on the rear that allows DHS to read it more easily (and pull up biometric/biographical data) and is considered a travel document as well. A US passport card (wallet sized) also becomes a travel document because it is valid at land border crossings to enter Canada/the United States.Few hours ago you said nexus card was assuredly a travel document, now you say it is "technically a travel document"! Soon you will call it Frequent border crosser club card!
I am not sure what you are trying to say? You are contradicting yourself! I agree with your definition of a travel document, but that very definition contradicts the your assertion that Nexus card is a travel document! Quoting http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/prog/nexus/faq-eng.html "NEXUS is a bi-national, Canada-United States program for etc,etc..." Another point, what is the primary purpose of enhanced driver's license? Operation of a motor vehicle or international travel or just as ID? If you treat primary purpose of an enhanced driver license as motor vehicle operation, it is cannot be a travel document per your definition, can it?
The NEXUS card does not eliminate the need to have a valid passport, but you can travel between the US and Canada with only a NEXUS card (I wouldn't recommend it on the US side as a lot of TSA screeners and airline gate agents for non-Canadian airlines are not aware of this).
If you are applying for citizenship and have a nexus card - declare it as a travel document and provide copies. It's that simple.
No need to interpret the rules or the definitions of documents that have already been declared travel documents by the government.
And no one wih a nexus card will be scrutinized more than someone without one. There is nothing to suggest this whatsoever. All applicants go through the same rigorous checks.
No need to interpret the rules or the definitions of documents that have already been declared travel documents by the government.
And no one wih a nexus card will be scrutinized more than someone without one. There is nothing to suggest this whatsoever. All applicants go through the same rigorous checks.
I am not sure I agree. My husband is allowed to travel to the US purely with his Nexus card, but he is a Canadian citizen.
I have a German passport and I HAVE to have my German passport on me when crossing the border with my Nexus card. I also need a current travel visa if I cross the border.
The only advantage I have is that I can use the Nexus line when at the border.
So in my case the Nexus card by itself does not allow me to cross the border.