+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

New PR card 2years obligation period

Father2020

Full Member
Sep 30, 2020
25
9
Dear members,

I have just received a new PR card after renewal. I would like to understand how the 2 year obligation period will be calculated:
A- from the date of issue a new (renewed) PR card?
OR
B - they will be check 5year period from back from the current date?

Thanks!)
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,254
8,872
Dear members,

I have just received a new PR card after renewal. I would like to understand how the 2 year obligation period will be calculated:
A- from the date of issue a new (renewed) PR card?
OR
B - they will be check 5year period from back from the current date?

Thanks!)
From now forward for you, it is basically a rolling five year obligation - that is on any date, you must have been in Canada for two years of the prior five year period to be in compliance.

Today - it is five years back - from June 4, 2016 to today. Tomorrow it will be from June 5 2016-2021. And so on.

In practice they do not 'check' every single day - but at any point when you are examined (at port of entry, for example), the previous five years is the relevant period.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BOYX

Father2020

Full Member
Sep 30, 2020
25
9
From now forward for you, it is basically a rolling five year obligation - that is on any date, you must have been in Canada for two years of the prior five year period to be in compliance.

Today - it is five years back - from June 4, 2016 to today. Tomorrow it will be from June 5 2016-2021. And so on.

In practice they do not 'check' every single day - but at any point when you are examined (at port of entry, for example), the previous five years is the relevant period.
Thank you, armoured)
If I go out to change my homeland passport, spend there 30 days waiting for the new passport, and fly back to Canada with no 2 from 5 years, will it be the problem at the point of entry?
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,254
8,872
Thank you, armoured)
If I go out to change my homeland passport, spend there 30 days waiting for the new passport, and fly back to Canada with no 2 from 5 years, will it be the problem at the point of entry?
Any time you are not in compliance, there is a risk of potentially being reported for non-compliance when you re-enter Canada.

In practice, they seem to be relatively lenient about small amounts of non-compliance (no, I can't define small - that's up to the border officer) - particularly for PRs that are (for example) clearly living in Canada and well-established, or that have good reasons for the non-compliance (that's also up to them).

But if you want to avoid the risk - remain in compliance and stay in Canada long enough to have the 'extra' physical presence days. Keep in mind that lots of PRs have things come up - esp in covid times with travel issues - that they did not plan for and end up out of compliance.

Obviously don't know your situation, but if possible to renew your passport within Canada, that's preferable. (I know it's harder for some countries to do so)
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,588
13,519
Thank you, armoured)
If I go out to change my homeland passport, spend there 30 days waiting for the new passport, and fly back to Canada with no 2 from 5 years, will it be the problem at the point of entry?
You only received the renewal due to H&C factors because your children's mother has died. If you don't meet your RO in the future you may not get approved another time.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,254
8,872
@Father2020 I did not take into account how you got the prtd and PR card,under h&c grounds. (I mistakenly assumed it was a normal pr card renewal and you were in compliance when you renewed)

I am not as familiar with the rules that apply in those circumstances.

You previously asked and there was a lengthy discussion about the specifics.

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/renew-pr-card-after-entering-Сanada-with-prtd-for-h-c-reason.710074/#post-8991312

I can't attest about how this works and you may be better to check with others or review that thread again and possibly post anew in that thread where the special circumstances are already known.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
If I go out to change my homeland passport, spend there 30 days waiting for the new passport, and fly back to Canada with no 2 from 5 years, will it be the problem at the point of entry?
Overall, for a PR who has been issued a PR card based on H&C reasons:

Odds are ONE trip abroad for a few weeks will NOT trigger a Residency Obligation examination upon arrival at a Canadian Port-of-Entry (PoE) during the return.

Odds are that multiple, but nonetheless occasional (not frequent) brief trips (less than a week) will likewise NOT trigger RO issues upon returning to Canada.

This is NOT about border officials exercising leniency. This is about recognizing that your admissibility related to the previous absence in excess of the RO has been adjudicated, and it has been determined that notwithstanding those absences, for H&C reasons, you are NOT inadmissible for failing to comply with the RO. Generally IRCC and CBSA will NOT adjudicate again what has already been adjudicated (other than in a normal process of review).

EVEN IF at the PoE, when returning to Canada, both the examining officer and Minister's Delegate decide otherwise, and issue a 44(1) Report plus Removal Order, as long as you are actually settled and living in Canada, the odds should be very good that you would prevail in an appeal to the IAD.

HOWEVER, those "odds" are dependent on no significant Change-in-Circumstances. Again, further explanation below.

Caution 1: there is no formal guideline prescribing what constitutes a Change-in-Circumstances. Risk of running into negative RO enforcement at a PoE almost certainly increases the more often the PR travels outside Canada, and the longer any given trip abroad is, and of course even more so for multiple lengthy trips. Based on anecdotal accounts, reported plans for one month abroad seem awfully prone to mutate into multiple months. Longer abroad, higher the risks. Additionally, appearances can matter, in particular, it helps if it appears the PR either is well settled in Canada or at least in the process of settling in Canada.

Caution 2: so far as I can recall and have seen, the IAD cases in which such a PR has encountered a negative RO compliance determination, despite previous H&C relief, are PR TD denials. You have a valid PR card so this risk factor does not affect you . . . EXCEPT, unless, and yes stuff happens, unless your PR card is stolen or lost while you are abroad.

This brings up examples. The one case that sticks out in my memory involved a young PR issued a PR TD based on H&C reasons who came to Canada and entered university. At the end of the semester, despite not having obtained a new PR card yet, the student-PR traveled to his home country. According to the student-PR it was to visit family over holidays. But for the official handling the PR TD application, in the Visa Office, it was apparent the PR-student was only in Canada to attend school and was, in effect, going home between semesters. PR TD denied.

But that is not the end of that story. PR-student appealed. As I recall (been awhile), by the time of the IAD hearing the PR-student had continued that pattern, returning "home" between semesters. None of those times abroad were for lengthy periods of time. But it appeared the PR-student had not settled in Canada, but rather continued to maintain his residence abroad, and this constituted a sufficient change in circumstances to uphold the Visa Office denial of a PR TD. Status lost.

THAT IS . . . It can make a big difference if the PR appears settled in Canada or appears to still be primarily tied to a location abroad.

Further/Longer Explanation:

The observations posted in response to similar query last November probably still apply:
https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/renew-pr-card-after-entering-Сanada-with-prtd-for-h-c-reason.710074/

Same thread referenced by @armoured

See, in particular, posts then by @primaprime and @BOYX

Just as here, there were conflicting views, but it appears that the observations by @canuck78 are based on a failure to recognize the nature and effect of a positive H&C decision. (Which is reinforced by the issuance of a PR card in your situation.)

My observations were posted on the next page of that discussion, which again PROBALY still apply:

Lengthy absences may be considered a change in circumstances which could trigger a negative RO compliance decision even though the PR has gotten a previous pass based on H&C reasons. The risk of this is very difficult to forecast. But, obviously, the longer the absence, or the more apparent it is the PR may be living abroad and not settled PERMANENTLY in Canada, the bigger the risk.
For clarity, the last observation is about traveling abroad after being issued a new PR card even though the PR has not actually been present in Canada for at least 730 days within the previous five years. Generally, any PR arriving at a PoE when returning to Canada is at risk for being issued a 44(1) Report based on Inadmissibility due to a failure to comply with the RO, if on the date the PR arrives at the PoE the PR has not been present at least 730 days within the previous five years. Remember, date the PR card expires is NOT relevant.
BUT the PR who has been issued a new PR card despite not meeting the RO, that is a PR issued a new card for H&C reasons, should be OK . . . but that is OK unless officials determine there has been a change in circumstances. A lengthy absence or indications the individual is not actually settled in Canada PERMANENTLY may be perceived to be cause for a new RO compliance assessment.

Which is to say, just as was said before, short trips abroad, or an isolated trip for a few weeks, should NOT pose a Residency Obligation compliance issue upon your return to Canada. Especially if you have been settled in Canada for at least several months before making the trip.

So far as I know or seen reported (with reliable sourcing) there is no official policy statement regarding this other than what various IAD panels have ruled. IAD panel rulings generally indicate what the rules are, how they work, and how they are applied. They are not, however, definitive or binding in other cases. Nonetheless, once a formal decision has been made, IRCC and CBSA will ordinarily recognize that decision as controlling in that case.

So, the H&C decision comes close, in effect, to restarting the clock. But not absolutely. Not for sure.

Thus, in a very strict sense, the comments here and in the other thread by @canuck78 are correct but misleading. There is no guarantee, there is "some risk" involved in traveling abroad prior to getting back in compliance based on presence in Canada at least 730 days within the last five years, but generally the H&C decision remains controlling for absences prior to the H&C decision . . . so 30 days abroad after the H&C decision would not come anywhere near being abroad for more than 1095 days within the last five years.

To put it in context, here is one of those comments:
"Getting a PRTD under H&C doesn't guarantee that you will get approval or leniency next time."​

Technically correct that there is no "guarantee," but as I previously noted, the "next time" does not depend on "leniency," but on credit for and continued application of the already adjudicated H&C determination. Which, for example, was probably a key factor in IRCC issuing a new PR card . . . your admissibility relative to your previous lengthy absence had already been adjudicated in the previous PR TD application decision. IRCC was bound, not absolutely but mostly bound, to give that decision credit. So, despite some forum participants saying a PR in this situation should wait for two years before applying for a new PR card, others more accurately said that the PR TD for H&C reasons meant you could proceed with a PR card application much sooner than that.

STILL BEST TO KEEP THE AMOUNT OF TIME ABROAD TO A MINIMUM!
 
  • Like
Reactions: BOYX and armoured

BOYX

Hero Member
May 5, 2017
436
221
Toronto, ON
This brings up examples. The one case that sticks out in my memory involved a young PR issued a PR TD based on H&C reasons who came to Canada and entered university. At the end of the semester, despite not having obtained a new PR card yet, the student-PR traveled to his home country. According to the student-PR it was to visit family over holidays. But for the official handling the PR TD application, in the Visa Office, it was apparent the PR-student was only in Canada to attend school and was, in effect, going home between semesters. PR TD denied.

But that is not the end of that story. PR-student appealed. As I recall (been awhile), by the time of the IAD hearing the PR-student had continued that pattern, returning "home" between semesters. None of those times abroad were for lengthy periods of time. But it appeared the PR-student had not settled in Canada, but rather continued to maintain his residence abroad, and this constituted a sufficient change in circumstances to uphold the Visa Office denial of a PR TD. Status lost.
I found this example quite curious. I'm going to read into this further since it will be relevant once my younger siblings arrive to Canada.

I was accepted through H&C grounds, however, I had to wait three years for my PR card (and thus remain in Canada) due to a mix-up courtesy of CBSA. The reason I remained was because my lawyers emphatically insisted I do not leave the country until I receive the card -- there was no guarantee that I'd have my PRTD accepted despite my previous positive decision. Seems like a good choice after reading this case.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,435
3,182
I found this example quite curious. I'm going to read into this further since it will be relevant once my younger siblings arrive to Canada.

I was accepted through H&C grounds, however, I had to wait three years for my PR card (and thus remain in Canada) due to a mix-up courtesy of CBSA. The reason I remained was because my lawyers emphatically insisted I do not leave the country until I receive the card -- there was no guarantee that I'd have my PRTD accepted despite my previous positive decision. Seems like a good choice after reading this case.
The further elaboration of your experience helps to fill in the picture generally. Good anecdotal reporting is always appreciated.

A comment about lawyers' advice: it almost always leans well toward what is the safest approach. Appears that staying in Canada was the FOR-SURE safe approach in your situation. Lawyers tend to place their bet on the FOR-SURE horse (in giving advice; many lawyers can place rather risky bets in their own affairs). In giving advice they approach things differently than, say, an investment broker. (For more, one might describe as intimate client-attorney relationships, some lawyers will trust their clients with more nuanced, risk-variable advice; but generally lawyers go with what comes as close to possible as the safest, most sure approach. Lawyers loathe being wrong.)

This is true for the OP here. The FOR-SURE way to keep PR status, as comments by @canuck78 have referenced, to avoid any chance of a re-examination of RO compliance resulting in a contrary outcome, is to NOT travel abroad until in compliance based on more than 730 days present in Canada within the preceding five years.

But in the OP's situation the risk-analysis is PROBABLY relatively secure . . . again because the key favourable element is NOT about leniency but rather the weight to given a decision already made.


Some further observations:

Unfortunately I do not clearly recall the details in the example case I described (so I hope my accounting of it above is at least close). Cannot recall if I discussed it in depth at the time here or whether that was in another forum. It was not the only change-in-circumstances case resulting in the loss of PR status notwithstanding a prior positive H&C decision. That is, observations by others, such as @primaprime, and me, regarding the potential for a change-in-circumstances reason resulting in a different outcome, derive from a range of sources not just one case.

Situations similar to this, in addition to comparing the number of IAD cases involving denied PR TD applications versus, what for a long time, was the smaller number of cases involving Port-of-Entry Report & Removal Order cases, underlies my strong impression (shared by others) that Visa Office decision-making for PR TD applications tends to pose significantly greater risks of a negative RO-compliance decision (makes sense given there is a not-valid status presumption for PRs abroad without a valid PR card). That is, it has long seemed that given similar factual scenarios, PRs are more at risk for being denied a PR TD than being Reported and issued a Removal Order upon arrival at a Canadian PoE. This has been a significant factor in suggestions, for PRs in RO-breach and abroad without a PR card, to attempt traveling to Canada via the U.S. so as to avoid making a PR TD application (recognizing however there are pros & cons either way . . . for example, for the PR with a strong H&C case, applying for the PR TD will offer a more definitive outcome without having to invest in making the move, and if granted, as was the OP's situation, the PR can soon apply for a new PR card rather than wait two years, and while there is no guarantee IRCC would issue a new PR card forthwith (thus the PR could have a long wait for a new card anyway), the risk of a RO-determination resulting in loss of PR status is low, at least way lower than for the PR in RO-breach who traveled via the U.S.)

Note, however, the general situation has changed some.
-- Covid-19 has skewed things big time. During this period and probably for awhile to come, quantitatively forecasting risks is far, far more difficult than it was, and it was already rather speculative.​
-- As previously noted over the last decade (and prior to the impact of Covid-19), the number of IAD cases involving PoE issued Removal Orders had increased dramatically, enough so that it seemed their number actually started to exceed the PR TD denied cases. This warrants further attention.​
-- -- Note, for example, there were 1413 Removal Orders, for breach of RO, issued at Ports-of-Entry in 2014 (and on average, those issued at the Montreal PoE more than doubled the combined total issued in Toronto and Vancouver), compared to just 605 in 2008 (source: 2017 Star article; might link); Harper government measures implementing stricter enforcement obviously the primary factor. Also noteworthy is the change in number of successful appeals, just 7.7 percent in 2014 compared to 17 percent in 2008.​

There are numerous complicating elements making it difficult to map clear conclusions from the available information. Moreover, this is a subject I have not revisited in depth in a couple years, and my analysis could probably use some updated research (difficult now because so much is skewed by Covid; and my personal lack of time at the moment). Which is why I emphasized "probably" in my previous observations responding to the OP. Notwithstanding that, most of the underlying principles remain largely consistent. The credit given a prior H&C decision, for example, is rooted in principles guiding Canadian government decision-making generally and for a very long time, and that in turn is rooted in long-established Western jurisprudence generally.

Which brings this back to the young PR who was issued a PR TD based on H&C reasons but then denied a PR TD when he had traveled to the home country before getting a PR card . . . and then lost on appeal. Again, my memory is not sufficiently clear about the details to draw direct conclusions based on that case alone, which is why I referenced it as an illustrative example rather than a definitive source, an example illustrating what I (and others) generally concluded based on a range of sources including IAD decisions.

And this in turn takes the discussion toward putting into context observations by some here, such as for example reservations about the prospect of H&C relief for a PR removed-as-a-minor who makes it clear the reason for seeking a return to Canada is for the explicit purpose of attending university in Canada. As opposed, say, to returning to Canada to settle and live permanently. That is a tangent into a big and complicated subject itself, rife with nuances. I bring it up here mostly to highlight that there are variables and underlying influences which can affect how things go in the individual case . . . so as @canuck78 and others sometimes comment, H&C relief is not guaranteed, and in particular is not guaranteed even if there already has been a grant of H&C relief if the PR (for some reason) encounters another RO-compliance examination.

So, in the PR-student case, again my memory is well shy of precise, and IAD decisions tend to be soft or outright vague in describing the analytical reasoning employed, but as best I can recall it appeared clear that the "change in circumstances" related to the circumstances pursuant to which the first PR TD decision, allowing H&C relief, was made. (I am way short of certain about this; again, going on best recall.) In other contexts this might be described as a "new evidence" scenario rather than "change in circumstances." That is, the PR-student's subsequent behavior may have been interpreted to reveal the circumstances under which the first PR TD was granted were not as they appeared or were presented . . . that is, the PR was not applying for the PR TD in order to return to Canada to settle and stay. As evidenced by circumstances showing the PR continued to maintain his home abroad, where the rest of his family resided.

That is more complicated than it appears. Especially since the role of "intent" has been all but eliminated from the RO and its application (intent absolutely NOT relevant in determining if a PR is in compliance; only relevant in evaluating whether a PR who has already been determined to be in breach deserves H&C relief, and even in most of these cases, intent is not among the more influential factors, even though, however, in close cases it appears it can be what makes the difference).

Which brings this, finally, around to some general observations. Some will say, and some will highlight it with emphasis, that it is not possible to predict how things will go when a PR arrives at a PoE and the PR has not been IN Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years. Which is true, in so far as it goes. But in certain scenarios PRs can be relatively confident regarding the probabilities. Thus, even though mapping the probabilities to what will be the outcome in a particular case is precarious, it is far more speculative in some scenarios, but relatively reliable in others. (Which is why the "xxx happened to me, so xxx will happen to you" reasoning, so often posted in the forum, makes me cringe; just not how things work, far, far from it.)
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
55,588
13,519
The further elaboration of your experience helps to fill in the picture generally. Good anecdotal reporting is always appreciated.

A comment about lawyers' advice: it almost always leans well toward what is the safest approach. Appears that staying in Canada was the FOR-SURE safe approach in your situation. Lawyers tend to place their bet on the FOR-SURE horse (in giving advice; many lawyers can place rather risky bets in their own affairs). In giving advice they approach things differently than, say, an investment broker. (For more, one might describe as intimate client-attorney relationships, some lawyers will trust their clients with more nuanced, risk-variable advice; but generally lawyers go with what comes as close to possible as the safest, most sure approach. Lawyers loathe being wrong.)

This is true for the OP here. The FOR-SURE way to keep PR status, as comments by @canuck78 have referenced, to avoid any chance of a re-examination of RO compliance resulting in a contrary outcome, is to NOT travel abroad until in compliance based on more than 730 days present in Canada within the preceding five years.

But in the OP's situation the risk-analysis is PROBABLY relatively secure . . . again because the key favourable element is NOT about leniency but rather the weight to given a decision already made.


Some further observations:

Unfortunately I do not clearly recall the details in the example case I described (so I hope my accounting of it above is at least close). Cannot recall if I discussed it in depth at the time here or whether that was in another forum. It was not the only change-in-circumstances case resulting in the loss of PR status notwithstanding a prior positive H&C decision. That is, observations by others, such as @primaprime, and me, regarding the potential for a change-in-circumstances reason resulting in a different outcome, derive from a range of sources not just one case.

Situations similar to this, in addition to comparing the number of IAD cases involving denied PR TD applications versus, what for a long time, was the smaller number of cases involving Port-of-Entry Report & Removal Order cases, underlies my strong impression (shared by others) that Visa Office decision-making for PR TD applications tends to pose significantly greater risks of a negative RO-compliance decision (makes sense given there is a not-valid status presumption for PRs abroad without a valid PR card). That is, it has long seemed that given similar factual scenarios, PRs are more at risk for being denied a PR TD than being Reported and issued a Removal Order upon arrival at a Canadian PoE. This has been a significant factor in suggestions, for PRs in RO-breach and abroad without a PR card, to attempt traveling to Canada via the U.S. so as to avoid making a PR TD application (recognizing however there are pros & cons either way . . . for example, for the PR with a strong H&C case, applying for the PR TD will offer a more definitive outcome without having to invest in making the move, and if granted, as was the OP's situation, the PR can soon apply for a new PR card rather than wait two years, and while there is no guarantee IRCC would issue a new PR card forthwith (thus the PR could have a long wait for a new card anyway), the risk of a RO-determination resulting in loss of PR status is low, at least way lower than for the PR in RO-breach who traveled via the U.S.)

Note, however, the general situation has changed some.
-- Covid-19 has skewed things big time. During this period and probably for awhile to come, quantitatively forecasting risks is far, far more difficult than it was, and it was already rather speculative.​
-- As previously noted over the last decade (and prior to the impact of Covid-19), the number of IAD cases involving PoE issued Removal Orders had increased dramatically, enough so that it seemed their number actually started to exceed the PR TD denied cases. This warrants further attention.​
-- -- Note, for example, there were 1413 Removal Orders, for breach of RO, issued at Ports-of-Entry in 2014 (and on average, those issued at the Montreal PoE more than doubled the combined total issued in Toronto and Vancouver), compared to just 605 in 2008 (source: 2017 Star article; might link); Harper government measures implementing stricter enforcement obviously the primary factor. Also noteworthy is the change in number of successful appeals, just 7.7 percent in 2014 compared to 17 percent in 2008.​

There are numerous complicating elements making it difficult to map clear conclusions from the available information. Moreover, this is a subject I have not revisited in depth in a couple years, and my analysis could probably use some updated research (difficult now because so much is skewed by Covid; and my personal lack of time at the moment). Which is why I emphasized "probably" in my previous observations responding to the OP. Notwithstanding that, most of the underlying principles remain largely consistent. The credit given a prior H&C decision, for example, is rooted in principles guiding Canadian government decision-making generally and for a very long time, and that in turn is rooted in long-established Western jurisprudence generally.

Which brings this back to the young PR who was issued a PR TD based on H&C reasons but then denied a PR TD when he had traveled to the home country before getting a PR card . . . and then lost on appeal. Again, my memory is not sufficiently clear about the details to draw direct conclusions based on that case alone, which is why I referenced it as an illustrative example rather than a definitive source, an example illustrating what I (and others) generally concluded based on a range of sources including IAD decisions.

And this in turn takes the discussion toward putting into context observations by some here, such as for example reservations about the prospect of H&C relief for a PR removed-as-a-minor who makes it clear the reason for seeking a return to Canada is for the explicit purpose of attending university in Canada. As opposed, say, to returning to Canada to settle and live permanently. That is a tangent into a big and complicated subject itself, rife with nuances. I bring it up here mostly to highlight that there are variables and underlying influences which can affect how things go in the individual case . . . so as @canuck78 and others sometimes comment, H&C relief is not guaranteed, and in particular is not guaranteed even if there already has been a grant of H&C relief if the PR (for some reason) encounters another RO-compliance examination.

So, in the PR-student case, again my memory is well shy of precise, and IAD decisions tend to be soft or outright vague in describing the analytical reasoning employed, but as best I can recall it appeared clear that the "change in circumstances" related to the circumstances pursuant to which the first PR TD decision, allowing H&C relief, was made. (I am way short of certain about this; again, going on best recall.) In other contexts this might be described as a "new evidence" scenario rather than "change in circumstances." That is, the PR-student's subsequent behavior may have been interpreted to reveal the circumstances under which the first PR TD was granted were not as they appeared or were presented . . . that is, the PR was not applying for the PR TD in order to return to Canada to settle and stay. As evidenced by circumstances showing the PR continued to maintain his home abroad, where the rest of his family resided.

That is more complicated than it appears. Especially since the role of "intent" has been all but eliminated from the RO and its application (intent absolutely NOT relevant in determining if a PR is in compliance; only relevant in evaluating whether a PR who has already been determined to be in breach deserves H&C relief, and even in most of these cases, intent is not among the more influential factors, even though, however, in close cases it appears it can be what makes the difference).

Which brings this, finally, around to some general observations. Some will say, and some will highlight it with emphasis, that it is not possible to predict how things will go when a PR arrives at a PoE and the PR has not been IN Canada at least 730 days within the previous five years. Which is true, in so far as it goes. But in certain scenarios PRs can be relatively confident regarding the probabilities. Thus, even though mapping the probabilities to what will be the outcome in a particular case is precarious, it is far more speculative in some scenarios, but relatively reliable in others. (Which is why the "xxx happened to me, so xxx will happen to you" reasoning, so often posted in the forum, makes me cringe; just not how things work, far, far from it.)
Would add that the acceptance of the removed as a minor PRTD reason used to be easily attained. Assume due to increasing numbers, often without any longterm history living in Canada, the acceptance has decreased.
 

candadream

Full Member
Jun 24, 2021
45
0
From now forward for you, it is basically a rolling five year obligation - that is on any date, you must have been in Canada for two years of the prior five year period to be in compliance.

Today - it is five years back - from June 4, 2016 to today. Tomorrow it will be from June 5 2016-2021. And so on.

In practice they do not 'check' every single day - but at any point when you are examined (at port of entry, for example), the previous five years is the relevant period.
Do they check in every port of entry? Basically any time you come back to Canada?
 

candadream

Full Member
Jun 24, 2021
45
0
Any time you are not in compliance, there is a risk of potentially being reported for non-compliance when you re-enter Canada.

In practice, they seem to be relatively lenient about small amounts of non-compliance (no, I can't define small - that's up to the border officer) - particularly for PRs that are (for example) clearly living in Canada and well-established, or that have good reasons for the non-compliance (that's also up to them).

But if you want to avoid the risk - remain in compliance and stay in Canada long enough to have the 'extra' physical presence days. Keep in mind that lots of PRs have things come up - esp in covid times with travel issues - that they did not plan for and end up out of compliance.

Obviously don't know your situation, but if possible to renew your passport within Canada, that's preferable. (I know it's harder for some countries to do so)

Can you elaborate more on those "small amounts" of non-compliance

and also, when there is risk of being reported?

Thanks!
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
17,254
8,872
Can you elaborate more on those "small amounts" of non-compliance

and also, when there is risk of being reported?

Thanks!
I said small amounts of non compliance can't be defined. 1 day out of compliance is much smaller than five years out of compliance.

There is risk of being reported at any examination eg at port of entry.
 
Last edited: