New form is good for inland and horrible for outlands?

[Sneakydriver]

Hello,

My case: Outland App.

In my opinion after looking at both forms. I think I'm going to go with the old one. I can't proof the things they are asking me in the new form. Seriously how can you prove those things when you are not living in the same country? in my case, we visit each other every other weekend but she goes to school in Canada and I work in the states. we don't have property together, or insurance together or utilities bills, etc... because we don't live together and I don't even have status in Canada, I go in as a visitor. I'm not from a visa exempt country! the whole point right of an outland application is to live our lives together because we can't right now!. Unless this is a way for them to eliminate outlands applications? I could get in canada as a visitor and stay and apply inland so maybe that is what they want? I don't know but what I know is that despite the fact the new forms ARE A LOT EASIER, straight forward, clean and shorter, I will apply using the old forms just because the option of choosing inland and outland is still there.

for whoever is reading this, and is trying to decide wheter to go with the new forms or old, there is no way to know how cic is going to react if you apply outland and only send them 1 minimum document (of the 3 you need to send them) using the new form... also if you apply outland and explain them the situation of why you don't have these required documents and blah blah blah. I think it's better to apply outland using the old forms and try to include the same documents they ask in the new forms and more!

For inlands, go ahead and apply using the new form I guess since it's pretty much designed for INLANDS ONLY.

 

[Bcboundboy]

Hello,

My case: Outland App.

In my opinion after looking at both forms. I think I'm going to go with the old one. I can't proof the things they are asking me in the new form. Seriously how can you prove those things when you are not living in the same country? in my case, we visit each other every other weekend but she goes to school in Canada and I work in the states. we don't have property together, or insurance together or utilities bills, etc... because we don't live together and I don't even have status in Canada, I go in as a visitor. I'm not from a visa exempt country! the whole point right of an outland application is to live our lives together because we can't right now!. Unless this is a way for them to eliminate outlands applications? I could get in canada as a visitor and stay and apply inland so maybe that is what they want? I don't know but what I know is that despite the fact the new forms ARE A LOT EASIER, straight forward, clean and shorter, I will apply using the old forms just because the option of choosing inland and outland is still there.

for whoever is reading this, and is trying to decide wheter to go with the new forms or old, there is no way to know how cic is going to react if you apply outland and only send them 1 minimum document (of the 3 you need to send them) using the new form... also if you apply outland and explain them the situation of why you don't have these required documents and blah blah blah. I think it's better to apply outland using the old forms and try to include the same documents they ask in the new forms and more!

For inlands, go ahead and apply using the new form I guess since it's pretty much designed for INLANDS ONLY.

Umm.

The new forms themselves aren't very different. Slightly redesigned to be clearer.

The problem you seem to be having is in the proof of relationship additional documents. And even there, you're describing the problem wrong. This isn't an inland/outland distinction, an outland application living together should breeze through providing everything they ask for. Your problem is that you seem to be selecting 'no' to the checkbox 'are you currently living together', and then complaining that you can't provide the evidence requested for people currently living together. Which isn't relevant to you.

Because you're not currently living together, you skip that section as it tells you to, and provide evidence of communication.

The only other problem I can imagine is that if you're trying to apply as a common law couple when you don't qualify as common law (have never lived together for 12 months+). In which case the forms are doing their job, of preventing a fraudulent application, and you should get married if you actually want to be together.

 

[Sneakydriver]

Umm.

The new forms themselves aren't very different. Slightly redesigned to be clearer.

The problem you seem to be having is in the proof of relationship additional documents. And even there, you're describing the problem wrong. This isn't an inland/outland distinction, an outland application living together should breeze through providing everything they ask for. Your problem is that you seem to be selecting 'no' to the checkbox 'are you currently living together', and then complaining that you can't provide the evidence requested for people currently living together. Which isn't relevant to you.

Because you're not currently living together, you skip that section as it tells you to, and provide evidence of communication.

The only other problem I can imagine is that if you're trying to apply as a common law couple when you don't qualify as common law (have never lived together for 12 months+). In which case the forms are doing their job, of preventing a fraudulent application, and you should get married if you actually want to be together.

You are assuming that if you answer no, we would not need to provide the 3 documents of the sets of 6. which actually would make sense and maybe I should not have assumed that even if you answer no, you would need to provide these documents. I will call cic to confirm but your answers makes a lot of sense.

 

[CDNPR2014]

Because you're not currently living together, you skip that section as it tells you to, and provide evidence of communication.

no, actually that's not right. the new checklist does ask people who don't live together to provide proof of sharing finances and things that were not required before. there is a section that says "if you did not say yes to all four questions (related to living together), please provide 1 document from 3 sets of documents listed". The documents listed are stuff like bank account info, proof of financially supporting each other, proof of insurance coverage, utility bills, etc. these are not documents i had to send when i applied outland and not living with my husband nor had at that time. it is strange they are asking for these things for people who don't live together. the list also doesn't specify to submit a letter of explanation why those items aren't available, though i'm sure that is the right thing to do if you can't provide this info. i can see how this can be confusing and stressful. basically they are asking people who don't live together to provide proof they do.

read section 7 of the new checklist (half way down, start at the language in the box):
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/forms/IMM5533E.pdf

 

[Bcboundboy]

no, actually that's not right. the new checklist does ask people who don't live together to provide proof of sharing finances and things that were not required before. there is a section that says "if you did not say yes to all four questions (related to living together), please provide 1 document from 3 sets of documents listed". The documents listed are stuff like bank account info, proof of financially supporting each other, proof of insurance coverage, utility bills, etc. these are not documents i had to send when i applied outland and not living with my husband nor had at that time. it is strange they are asking for these things for people who don't live together. the list also doesn't specify to submit a letter of explanation why those items aren't available, though i'm sure that is the right thing to do if you can't provide this info. i can see how this can be confusing and stressful. basically they are asking people who don't live together to provide proof they do.

read section 7 of the new checklist (half way down, start at the language in the box):
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/forms/IMM5533E.pdf

Fascinatingly, we're both right. IMM5533 (which you cite, and almost but doesn't quite say what you say it does), and IMM5589 (which I was using - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/forms/IMM5589E.pdf) ask for different proofs for different standards in section 7. The difference is that 5533 is for married couples, and 5589 is for common law.

5589 (CL) says if you are not currently living together, to skip over all the current proofs, provide proof of communication, and proof of having historically established common-law (lease, bills, etc, from the past).

5533 (M) says to provide various proofs if you are not currently living together - some of those, such as joint utility bills would indeed be hard to get if you're not actually living together - but some of them are bogstandard things like supporting letters from friends and family, or social media things together, which any legitimate couple should be able to generate (unless they're absolute hermits).

 

[CDNPR2014]

Fascinatingly, we're both right. IMM5533 (which you cite, and almost but doesn't quite say what you say it does), and IMM5589 (which I was using - http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/forms/IMM5589E.pdf) ask for different proofs for different standards in section 7. The difference is that 5533 is for married couples, and 5589 is for common law.

5589 (CL) says if you are not currently living together, to skip over all the current proofs, provide proof of communication, and proof of having historically established common-law (lease, bills, etc, from the past).

5533 (M) says to provide various proofs if you are not currently living together - some of those, such as joint utility bills would indeed be hard to get if you're not actually living together - but some of them are bogstandard things like supporting letters from friends and family, or social media things together, which any legitimate couple should be able to generate (unless they're absolute hermits).

interesting there are 2 lists, but still the married list is asking for 1 item from 3 of the groups. i believe letters from friends and familly and social media items are part of the same category, so they wil only count as 1 item. there are still 2 others required. i would not have been able to provide any of those items at the time of my application. i'm not saying these things aren't impossible to get, it's just not necessarily things you have when you are living in different countries.

 

[Bcboundboy]

interesting there are 2 lists, but still the married list is asking for 1 item from 3 of the groups. i believe letters from friends and familly and social media items are part of the same category, so they wil only count as 1 item. there are still 2 others required. i would not have been able to provide any of those items at the time of my application. i'm not saying these things aren't impossible to get, it's just not necessarily things you have when you are living in different countries.

Yes, they are. Another one is documents showing you to be each others financial beneficiaries. Those seem to be the easiest two to provide (most people have insurance or a pension of some kind) - but beyond that they really do want you to be together, or at least have been, don't they.

The wording on that section is also really weird - it demands "one from three of the following", but then some but not all the options themselves include "minimum 1 document" - which is at best redundant, and because of not appearing by all of them, just confuses things further.

 

[barch88]

I'm in the same situation. The form clearly asks for 1 item from the 3 groups. My wife is Canadian, I'm American. We don't have any bills or property shared since I live across the US border and visit on a weekly basis, or multiple times per week basis. I can provide proof showing her as my beneficiary on my retirement account. I can provide pictures, I can provide some social media stuff. We also have Christmas cards, wedding cards, birthday cards, etc. We also have passport stamps showing when we visited each other, boarding pass, etc. I can go as far to even include a notarized letters from parents and friends if need be...but we still are technically missing "proof".

Will this suffice for a US/Canadian relationship?

 

[CDNPR2014]

I'm in the same situation. The form clearly asks for 1 item from the 3 groups. My wife is Canadian, I'm American. We don't have any bills or property shared since I live across the US border and visit on a weekly basis, or multiple times per week basis. I can provide proof showing her as my beneficiary on my retirement account. I can provide pictures, I can provide some social media stuff. We also have Christmas cards, wedding cards, birthday cards, etc. We also have passport stamps showing when we visited each other, boarding pass, etc. I can go as far to even include a notarized letters from parents and friends if need be...but we still are technically missing "proof".

Will this suffice for a US/Canadian relationship?

unfortunately no one knows. i know in ottawa it was quite easy for my husband to add my name to a utility bill before becoming pr, so that might be worth the sponsor trying? possibly phone too? it seems they want a bit more legwork done now.

 

[barch88]

unfortunately no one knows. i know in ottawa it was quite easy for my husband to add my name to a utility bill before becoming pr, so that might be worth the sponsor trying? possibly phone too? it seems they want a bit more legwork done now.

I think I'm on her phone account as an authorized user but I don't know if we can get a print out of that.

 

[dreamcanada87]

we talked to our lawyer and he said that if you are not living together than ircc knows u won't be able to provide first 3 questions so for financial support we can give Western Union receipts like any kind of money transfer between the outland people.for insurance policies make sure to add your spouse as beneficiary and for another is simple like Facebook or any social media screenshots where ur friends or family acknowledge you as a couple.but he is confused about the next option so he need to consult within his law firm. the further proofs of letters,printed text messages or social media conversation or emails.as according to him the what's app or other messenger are just instant messenger not social.we have only emails.so confused