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jiyamano

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http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/1001970--visa-from-india-show-us-your-fingerprint?bn=1

NEW DELHI—Canada appears to be heading for another diplomatic dust-up with India.

As part of an update of Canada’s immigration safeguards, the federal government is planning to begin demanding that Indian citizens applying to travel to Canada provide their fingerprints, a requirement that visitors from other countries, such as Mexico and China, are not going to face immediately.

Canada has been eager for several years to introduce biometrics to its border controls. The technology has already been employed for years by other Western countries to battle immigration fraud.

Currently, Canadian border agents rely on photo identification to decide if the person standing in front of them matches their passport.

Biometrics cuts out that subjectivity, using digital measurements of a person’s fingerprints, face, and retinas that can be stored on computer chips and machine-readable strips.

Data can be checked at border entry points, where travelers are asked to put their fingers on scanners. The systems are said to be so sensitive that they can distinguish between identical twins.

Ottawa has decided on fingerprint technology instead of facial recognition software, and according to people familiar with the matter, India is a favoured candidate to be one of the first countries for the rollout of the $200 million program.

That amount is not enough to introduce biometrics in every Canadian overseas mission, so immigration officials are now trying to decide which countries should be first.

Security hotspots like Pakistan and Yemen are at the top of the list, but there was room for one large-volume nation as well, according to sources, and India is the recommended choice over China.

The decision could damage relations between Canada and India, which have only recently begun to improve.

Last year, Canada was flayed on the front pages of India’s leading newspapers after visa officers at the Canadian High Commission refused applications from several current and retired Indian military officers because of their involvement with the paramilitary Border Security Force, which was formed following India’s 1965 war with Pakistan and still patrols areas in Kashmir and near the Bangladesh border. Canadian diplomats wrote in refusal letters that the BSF is a “notoriously violent unit” that engages in “systematic torture.”

The Canadian government acted fast to defuse the scandal — even though some of the military officers interviewed as part of their visa application had admitted to taking part in torture.

Joseph Caron, who has served as head of Canada’s mission to both India and China, agreed that introducing biometrics in India before China would be sensitive, but said the Indian government could be convinced the decision was good news.

“Having this technology means having better, more reliable records,” Caron said.

While some officials at Citizenship and Immigration Canada favour adding India to the biometrics rollout, no firm decisions on a final roster have taken place, said one person familiar with the matter.

A spokesperson for Citizenship and Immigration Canada, Kelli Fraser, said the government was committing $174 million over five years to introduce the biometrics program, starting in 2013.

Fraser wouldn’t address the political sensitivities of including India and excluding regional rival China in the roll-out.

“The list of countries is still under consideration at this time and there is no set list at this time,” Fraser wrote in an email to the Star.

It’s still possible the biometric requirements could be introduced simultaneously to both countries. High-ranking officials with the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade are said to be lobbying against including India in the initial rollout.

“Any policy that lumps India in with troubled countries is bad optics,” says Rana Sarkar, president of the Canada-India Business Council.

India has been a trouble spot for visa fraud in the past.

Two years ago, Jet Airways, the country’s largest private carrier, came close to losing its landing privileges in Canada after Canada Border Service Agency agents discovered dozens of the airline’s passengers arriving at Pearson International Airport with fake travel documents.

In most cases, a person with an extensive international travel history applied for and received a legitimate Canadian visa. The photo page of their Indian passport was then replaced with a doctored one and used by a different person.

Biometrics would make that kind of fraud far more difficult. It would also help to identify foreign nationals who have a criminal record or are on government watch lists.

There would be at least some disadvantages to introducing biometrics.

Currently, Indian business executives who travel to the United States or the United Kingdom must book an appointment to have their fingerprints scanned. Those traveling to Canada haven’t faced that requirement, perhaps making Canada a more favourable destination.

There are also questions over how Indians living abroad would be treated. If Indian citizens in Canada were forced to provide biometrics but those in the U.K. weren’t, that would invite further criticism.

In 2006, Citizenship and Immigration Canada spent $3.5 million on a biometrics field trial at its offices in Hong Kong and Seattle, as well as the refugee-processing centre in Etobicoke.

During the six-month trial, 14,285 visa applicants provided fingerprints and high-resolution photos, and verification was accurate in 96 per cent of cases. The sole case of identity fraud in the trial involved a person claiming refugee protection at the Refugee Intake Centre in Toronto, the CIC said on its Website.

It’s possible outrage in India over Canadian proposal might be tempered by the Indian government’s own program that’s using biometrics to assemble a database covering all of the country’s 1.2 billion citizens.

“I think the sensitivity towards biometrics might have fallen off a bit because of that,” Sarkar says.
 

angelbrat

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Oct 31, 2009
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Sounds like a great idea. No one who is genuine would ever object to a system that makes immigration or visa's easier and quicker. As the vast majority of immigrants coming to Canada are from the Asian continents, makes perfect sense to start the new system with those Countries.

I cannot see what the problem is myself....hopes others will join the debate and show me another side to the argument.
 

fprince

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If you are legal.. why would you worry to submit fingerprints or anything else..
this will not harm legal immigrants...who cares abt fingerprints, YOU NEED TO SUBMIT it to US when you apply for a visa anyways regardless..so why bother about Canada.
You gotta obey what US needs to cross the border ( even if you are in Canada and enter US )...

Nothing will change...and if they spoil relationships with countries like India, China the billion populated country looses nothing ..the 35 million country does with the aging population who need immigrants.
Need an example - Emirates and how the Canadian Govt thought they could play the game like United States..who lost?
and just FYI, Canada is awesum and all but population is the size of a average state in south Asia... no one's gonna take them seriously and only the ppl like us who marry and sponsor will be affected.
Even today Canada is known as the the one above US to a lot of most of the ppl in the eastern world...there is nothing significant to know unless u live here and marry someone there...
but all the war torn countries know abt Canada and how to come here...as we always welcome refugees.

Let US pass the law and we follow...makes diplomatic sence in all aspects as per execution.
In this case US did it decades ago, Canada wow finally they want fingerprints ! and as we speak there would be so many petisions filed to stop acting like US...and finally they will drop it and just waste our tax money...nothing can be fixed here anymore, once you become muticultural..well, sorry but true you are instable in the long run..works great in the start but the end won't be as friendly...our European friends have figured this out already and are fixing it and as usual Canada needs another 20-30 years to react like the cell phone, internet, cable market.


What A Joke ! Fix immigration processing lead time or stop immigration like most of Europe..cant stand in the middle of the sea and exploit ppl who have to wait for 7 years to bring their parents to Canada..again what a Joke, fix your own stupid system for family sponsorship....or put an end...

I am still an immigrant with a honest view on what i see.
 

missmini

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other countries ask for fingerprints of ALL fingers AND eyescan even for their work visas for everyone: us canadians uk australian european everyone....maybe it is a little headache to give and u feel a little stressed but as u long as u r honest and u don't steal other identity why should u worry...it is also more protective for the honest people who might have their identity stolen....they should do it for all countries
 

canadianwoman

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I think it is ridiculous that the Indian government should be complaining about this. The only people who will be hurt or inconvenienced are criminals. Lots of other countries require fingerprints now - I had to give my fingerprints this year when I entered Malaysia. So what? Malaysia has the right to try to protect its borders, just as Canada does.
And to complain because Canada refused visas to admitted torturers? Meanwhile, honest people wait months or years for their spousal visa to be approved.
 

tink23

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If they don't want to give their finger prints, then they can stay out of Canada. Easy as that.
Like everyone else has said, if they are honest then they won't have a problem providing their fingerprints.
 

boblu

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To come into Canada it is not a right it is a privilege for people, try to go into some other countries and see the issues, can you fault Canada for protecting the boarders
 

missmini

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even more, i think that Canada still has lots to do in terms of security; it's not enough yet maybe because many Canadians who don't travel a lot assume that everyone is nice and honest like most of them are...two things come into my mind: stamp everyone's passport at entry and exit, have a database with all this AND have the passport number written on each page (canadian passport is the most stolen and easy to falsify from all :eek: )
 

jiyamano

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I remember when my family was immigrating to Canada like 10 yrs back we did submitted fingerprints with our application. It was part of the requirements.

I know that every time you visit Japan you have to give your fingerprint of index finger at immigration booth.

missmini said:
even more, i think that Canada still has lots to do in terms of security; it's not enough yet maybe because many Canadians who don't travel a lot assume that everyone is nice and honest like most of them are...two things come into my mind: stamp everyone's passport at entry and exit, have a database with all this AND have the passport number written on each page (canadian passport is the most stolen and easy to falsify from all :eek: )
I 1000% agree with you missmini
 

SmoothiesQueen

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Jun 18, 2010
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This might sound wrong...but we have to have population control to keep our country in a state of which we can have a comfortable life. If you fell in love with someone genuinely...yes...if its your parents or siblings...alright ...but we can't take on EVERYONE. There needs to be MUCH stricter things to rule out fraud and fake marriages etc. Yes I know that would likely cause frusteration for us genuine people...but I know that my marriage can be proved inside out...so even if it took a bit extra time..I'd rather that then have our country become over populated from people screwing the system. Finger prints are a great idea! Nothing to hide..then nothing to fear right?

As far as those military officer....I think they were rightfully denied and support that fully. After living in a third world country myself some years with my hubby though im born and raised Canadian, and seeing the corruption of ranking officials and people in the military/police/politics....I think they should be denied the ability to leave the country..whichever country that may be..India or elswhere.. of the people they are abusing. Why should you be allowed to torture and abuse people in a country where people are already struggling and the poor have hard lives...yet at the end come live a nice little life in Canada. I don't like when there is so many suffering people in this world that would deserve the chance to come to Canada and would take advantage of the oppurtunties like bee's to honey and work hard, yet often its alot of the people that don't deserve it that get in. People committing immigration fraud, people marrying unsuspecting and sometimes fully aware people fakely to obtain PR, people who did bad things in other countries but were better off and managed to qualify to come, etc! Maybe I'm a bleeding heart but I would rather see genuine families reunited, refugees brought to be given a chance to have a good life, married couples able to be together and build their life in this great country. Thats really what its for..its not just a money tree for anyone to come grab a piece of when they don't like life somewhere else! The sad reality is we are one country who cannot fix the whole worlds crisis and problems!

Its not fair. But then life and this world is rarely fair or balanced!

Then people like my self and many others on here who genuinely fell in love with someone we have to sponser to be with, have to go through hell, and long waits while immigration struggles to weed out the bad from the good! So fingerprints...facial recognition...if there are options to help immigration keep a closer grip on this...I'm one hundred percent for it. My hubby and I have an honest clean case so it wont affect us negatively or anyone else with clean cases! And we do want to keep our country safe, and the population under control, so being careful about who we let in is crucially important!
 

hsbalouch

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I believe its about time to implement such procedures or else we have a strong example of the UK where all sorts of immigration frauds are happening and its still uncontolable although now UKBA putting all their efforts to stop this all but I guess a little too late!

Canada is still far from the situation that we have in the UK and I think its a right step towards making things even more better before they go worse--genuine people wouldn't worry much because of this and aren't we already waiting for quite a bit time to join our loved ones?

moreover, it will help stop criminals entering this peaceful country as compare to the UK where notorious criminals were admitted from eastern europe with very very serious criminal records and consequences are shown by the stats--gun and knife culture is on the rise like never before!

its a good suggestion and should be implemented Sooner the better!