Need Help! PR expires in 7 months. RO not met

[aakash28]

Dear All,

I got PR with my wife and Minir son on May 2012. We stayed for two months and then we moved back to home country. Later after we traveled again on 2013 June for 1.5 months. After that, on 2014, I only travelled (not my family) for two weeks.

Now I am planning to travel to Canada within a week. Knowing fully that in last 4.5 years I did not meet RO and may be my wife and son stayed more than 3 years outside of Canada. Our reasons were to take care of renal transplanted father during the last few years. And I had to take care of his businesses as well. Now since he is somewhat stable, we are planning to come to Canada and stay 2 years to meet the residency to renew the card.

My questions:

1. If we are being reported, will they deport us back? Don't want to risk that with a 8 year old.

2. Should we carry some medical documents along with me that shows my father's illness and that I was taking care of his businesses?

3. In case of being reported, and knowing that slim chance of maintaining the PR status, can I then leave Canada without without hearing? Will that hamper my future applications for PR or visitor to Canada? Is it a good idea to leave after being reported? I don't want to stay for long if the chances are slim.

Any particular suggestions are appreciated!

Thanks guys!

 

[Leon]

1. If you get reported, they will not deport you back. However, you will be given a choice to either accept the loss of your PR status or appealing for it.

2. Yes, explaining that to the IO can cause them to decide not to report you.

3. See 1. If you accept the loss of your PR, you may leave again and the loss of your PR due to not meeting the RO would not affect your PR or other applications in the future. If you appeal for your PR, you should show your proof of your fathers illness and you should stay in Canada and try to get settled. The hearing will also take into account whether you have tried to settle or not. Chances of winning an appeal are very slim if you leave after you make it and make no attempt to settle.

 

[aakash28]

Thanks Brother Leon!

Brother one more question, if they plan to report then what are the usual steps? Like will they give us time to decide whether we want to appeal or renounce with some period of time? I have heard an appeal may take up to a year to come an immigration judge. Do I get a time window by which I should choose or we have to do it at the airport?

Thanks in advance bro.

 

[Leon]

Thanks Brother Leon!

Brother one more question, if they plan to report then what are the usual steps? Like will they give us time to decide whether we want to appeal or renounce with some period of time? I have heard an appeal may take up to a year to come an immigration judge. Do I get a time window by which I should choose or we have to do it at the airport?

Thanks in advance bro.

If you get reported, you have 30 days to appeal their decision. If you do not appeal within 30 days, they will revoke your PR. If you do appeal, it can take 1-2 years for the processing. However, even if it takes more than 2 years, you will not meet the residency requirements again and be able to keep your PR for that reason, because time spent under an appeal will only count if you win.

 

[aakash28]

If you get reported, you have 30 days to appeal their decision. If you do not appeal within 30 days, they will revoke your PR. If you do appeal, it can take 1-2 years for the processing. However, even if it takes more than 2 years, you will not meet the residency requirements again and be able to keep your PR for that reason, because time spent under an appeal will only count if you win.

Given your experiences, can you recommend me which airport I should take to make an entry? Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver? May be all of them now has the automated teller on which you swipe and go. But need your suggestions.

 

[Rob_TO]

Given your experiences, can you recommend me which airport I should take to make an entry? Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver? May be all of them now has the automated teller on which you swipe and go. But need your suggestions.

All airports are the same in terms of odds of being reported. Either way though, you have a tough time ahead of you. 2 things will happen:

1. You are reported for not meeting RO, in which case you'll have to go through appeals process to try and keep your PR.

2. You aren't reported. But since you don't meet RO, you and your family will need to stay inside Canada 2 straight years before you're back in compliance with RO and can then renew your PR cards. During these 2 years you should not leave Canada for any reason (not even for emergency with family in home country), else you risk being reported upon re-entry or being denied a PR Travel Doc if your PR card has expired

 

[Bs65]

All airports are the same in terms of odds of being reported. Either way though, you have a tough time ahead of you. 2 things will happen:

1. You are reported for not meeting RO, in which case you'll have to go through appeals process to try and keep your PR.

2. You aren't reported. But since you don't meet RO, you and your family will need to stay inside Canada 2 straight years before you're back in compliance with RO and can then renew your PR cards. During these 2 years you should not leave Canada for any reason (not even for emergency with family in home country), else you risk being reported upon re-entry or being denied a PR Travel Doc if your PR card has expired

If the OP decides to take what seems like a big risk bringing family back none of whom have met RO then we might all agree not to volunteer any additional information to the CBSA officer as is not their job to assess reasons for failing PR residency obligation and will only prompt CBSA to initiate a report.

Only answer honestly CBSA questions asked and obviously if CBSA ask about last time in country answer honestly else as said do not volunteer any extra information. As PRs the OP and family of course will still be entitled to enter the country but no point making any decision to get reported easier by volunteering extra information not requested at the time.

 

[Rob_TO]

If the OP decides to take what seems like a big risk bringing family back none of whom have met RO then we might all agree not to volunteer any additional information to the CBSA officer as is not their job to assess reasons for failing PR residency obligation and will only prompt CBSA to initiate a report.

A CBSA officer can definitely consider H&C or other reasons in deciding whether or not to issue a report on not meeting RO. They can use their own discretion here.

However a CBSA officer's possible decision not to report someone, is in no way an official decision on RO status. Even if CBSA sees the RO violation and lets you enter, you still can't apply for PR card renewal since CIC will do their own investigation again.

 

[dpenabill]

Note, it is possible, and there have been some anecdotal reports of this, that the examining CBSA immigration officer, at the PoE, is sympathetic to the H&C explanation but given a clear breach of the PR Residency Obligation is obligated to make the 44(1) Report (for inadmissibility due to breach of the PR RO), which is then reviewed by the Minister's Delegate (in practice, typically a supervising officer at the PoE) who does make a formal, official decision, which if that decision is to not issue a Removal (Departure) Order, does indeed constitute a decision which will have significant precedence weight. In which case the PR does not necessarily need to wait a full two years before engaging in another CBSA or IRCC transaction (such as an application for a new PR card or traveling abroad). That said, it would still be critically important to fully establish a home in Canada and be settled in that home before engaging in another IRCC or CBSA transaction (while it would not be necessary to wait a full two years, best to not test things for at least many months, the longer the better).

Thus, it is very important to carry and have in one's hands (not in checked baggage for example) documents supporting the H&C reasons for not returning to Canada sooner. Foremost, to avoid being reported if possible, but to also make the case to the Minister's Delegate if reported.

To be clear: If the examining PoE officer in effect reviews the situation, and even if he or she considers the H&C reasons, then in effect waives the PRs into Canada, as Rob_TO observed, that would not be a formal RO decision. If in contrast, there is a 44(1) Report and the supervisor, the "Minister's Delegate," determines to not issue a Removal Order, that would be a formal decision. While a PR with a very strong H&C case might prefer the latter, generally H&C cases are tricky at best and even if the reasons are strong the odds are usually not good, so most PRs would prefer and best benefit from persuading the initial examining PoE officer (not the PIL officer, but the secondary officer, the examining immigration officer) to in effect waive the PR into Canada without a report.

Which leads to . . .

Caution/Caveat: The extent of the breach indicated here imposes daunting odds against making a successful H&C case. While new PRs (within first five years of landing) appear to be allowed fairly generous leeway, being more than a year short of compliance probably pushes the envelope by a lot. If the OP decides to make the effort to save PR status and actually settle permanently in Canada, it is crucial that all family members make the trip as soon as possible, definitely while they still have PR cards, and if allowed into Canada to then do the paperwork for things like obtaining health cards, SIN numbers if those have not yet been obtained, drivers licenses for those eligible, and so on, while their PR cards are still valid.

 

[aakash28]

Just want to update guys -

I entered Canada on 30th December 2016 without any difficulty, with God's grace.

Few tips that may help for people with similar situation of mine-

1. Use the automated machine to check in.
2. When you go out the officer will check your passports. He was not that interested in my PR card. Just checking the photos with passport.
3. Custom declaration was a breeze. Just handed over and left. Did not ask anything.

May be I was lucky. But that is what i have experienced.

 

[Rob_TO]

Just want to update guys -

I entered Canada on 30th December 2016 without any difficulty, with God's grace.

Few tips that may help for people with similar situation of mine-

1. Use the automated machine to check in.
2. When you go out the officer will check your passports. He was not that interested in my PR card. Just checking the photos with passport.
3. Custom declaration was a breeze. Just handed over and left. Did not ask anything.

May be I was lucky. But that is what i have experienced.

Just make sure you understand that you must now stay here 2 straight years, so can't make any visits back to your home country during this time for any reason. Any travel outside Canada may cause you to be reported for RO on next re-entry. After the PR card expires the odds of being reported increase drastically.

 

[jacko062001]

My husband is in canada right now completing his obligation. But me and my son will not be able to complete since we dedicded to keep my job in UAE while he tries to settle. We are planning to join him next year but we will only have 1 year. If our PR expires while we are inside canada will we be able to renew or it is advisable to stay outside canada let the PR card expires and let my husband sponsor us. Thanks for the help.

 

[nope]

My husband is in canada right now completing his obligation. But me and my son will not be able to complete since we dedicded to keep my job in UAE while he tries to settle. We are planning to join him next year but we will only have 1 year. If our PR expires while we are inside canada will we be able to renew or it is advisable to stay outside canada let the PR card expires and let my husband sponsor us. Thanks for the help.

You can't renew your PR card until you've fulfilled the two-year obligation -- it would be a mistake to apply before that, it would likely lead to your PR being lost. However, if you enter Canada with an unexpired PR card, you can use it to obtain the other necessary documents that you need to live here: medical card, driving license, perhaps a school enrollment. Technically, the PR card is not supposed to required for these, but practically, it is.

If you have these documents, you don't need to renew the PR card -- there is no requirement to have it while living in Canada. Personally, I would consider this route easier than giving up PR and going through a sponsorship. And note that if you are flagged at the border and unable to enter Canada with a clean record, you can simply accept the loss of your PR and go through the sponsorship route.