Need advice: Running out of my residency obligation during the pandemic

[stan_shk]

Hi,

I am in a bit of a situation regarding my move to Canada and the PR timelines. I have a PR since mid 2018 and have previously lived in Canada before accepting a job offer overseas. I had been waiting to move back to Canada until my company would agree to transfer my job to Canada. However, I didn't see this pandemic coming and it has tossed my timeline to return due to personal health risk -- I have an underlying condition which can increase the risk of severe outcome from Covid-19 if I were to contract the virus during travel and relocation back to Canada. I haven't had a chance to get vaccinated yet and there is no firm data on whether one vaccine is effective against the several variants.
If I don't move to Canada by August 2021, I miss my 730 day residency obligation in the five year period (ending August 2023). I reached out to CIC and also to the Visa Office requesting them to grant me some extension in traveling, given my personal health situation and the global pandemic. However, they simply returned my request saying I can only raise such a request at a port of entry when I travel to Canada, and that there is "no exemption due to the pandemic circumstances."

What I don't understand is -- I am diligent in reaching out to the Visa office with a valid request to extend my arrival, knowing fully well that if I travel late without raising such a request, I may be turned back at the port of entry for missing the 730 day requirement (albeit due to a valid reason). Given we are in the digital age, I don't understand why CIC does not have a feature to raise a request for extension online, well before traveling all the way to make such a request? Or is there something I am missing and does an online platform exist to make such a request on compelling grounds? I find it hard it believe that this has to be a choice between risking one's health by traveling in the current circumstances or losing one's PR and being sent back. There are folks facing legitimate personal challenges during this once in a lifetime pandemic.

Could someone please advise me what I could do in my situation?

Cheers,
Stan

 

[armoured]

There are multiple threads here discussing the same thing - you can peruse some of them and get informed.

So in brief:
-No, there is no advance or prospective approval for arriving out of compliance. (Not worth arguing about why - they just don't do it).

-When arriving at a port of entry, if they ask, you give your reasons. That would include in your case info about your medical condition etc. They either let you in without any issue or issue a report about your non-compliance. Either way, you will be let in the country.

-If they issue a report for you non-compliance, it starts a process to revoke the PR process - but in the meantime, you remain in Canada. You can appeal. You can live and work, etc.

-Now about the H&C and other reasons: they MUST be considered - both at the border and on appeal.

-No-one can tell you how this will go - but all indications are that covid-related reasons are taken seriously; after all the government has recommendiations not to travel, warnings about health conditions, isolation requirements, etc. And all indications are that while covid travel restrictions are in force, they are being at least somewhat lenient. Arguably quite lenient - but no-one has actual figures. (You will have the chance to argue more formally and completely on appeal, if it comes to that.)

-They also are more likely to be lenient for being less out of compliance. (eg There are probably very few or no cases of being reported for one day out of compliance, but the chance goes up as non-compliance does).

-The reasons you present for being out of compliance and individual circumstances matter, so no-one can say with certainty; but covid is a real issue and neither the border officers nor officials on appeal (if it comes to that) could deny it.

-That said, covid will not be a guaranteed situation of lenience for all cases (individual details matter). Someone who has not been to Canada for five years (eg since soft-landing) is likely to get (much) less consideration than someone only slightly out of compliance.

-So the simple general advice is: don't waste your time trying to get approval in advance - there is no such thing. Take care of your health and get vaccinated as soon as possible. Return to Canada as soon as possible - either before your non-compliance begins or as soon as possible afterwards. (No-one here could possibly comment about your health situation or vaccine availability where you are)

-Be clear on why you didn't return earlier: mainly, health risks to you. Be prepared to document.

If you do this in as short a time period as possible, you have a good chance of the reasons being accepted and being waved through. If you drag it out for another year and a half - your chances will be worse.

 

[Naheulbeuck]

If you do this in as short a time period as possible, you have a good chance of the reasons being accepted and being waved through. If you drag it out for another year and a half - your chances will be worse.

Agree with the general information from @armoured above. I will however note that most people who fail their RO and want to keep their PR status feel that their situation warrants leniency and that they have specific circumstances that warrants Canada ignoring the fact that they did not meet their RO.

Not to say that you do not have legitimate reasons but just that in many cases, people who thought they had reasonable reasons were rejected by IRCC.

For instance in your situation, your health concern with Covid could be a very valid reason for not meeting your RO, but the 2 years before that you had no valid reason, you had your timeline planned to your convenience, and Covid through a wrench in your convenient plan. Not a criticism but just to explain why even if you feel very diligent and don't understand why IRCC does not grant you an "automatic" extension, well it is not that black and white.

Like mentioned above though, it is likely that Covid will be considered but if you go so far beyond your residency obligation with no explanation for the previous years, especially since from your post I infer that you obtained PR and left Canada almost as soon as you got it (since you will rely on 08-2021 to 08-2023 to meet your RO and this is your first RO since acquiring PR in 2018), it will become more and more likely you will be reported at the port of entry (the exact percentage is however impossible to guess).

What worries me in your post is that you are still essentially waiting for your company to transfer you, and more importantly, you do not trust the current vaccines. Unfortunately, on the second point, new variants will likely continue to emerge for the next years. With vaccines continuously lagging behind (booster shots take time to be developed and tested, therefore by the time we get them, there will likely be new variants), I am worried that you will not move for a while and if that's the case, your chances of not being reported/winning an appeal will continuously decrease. I believe that as Armoured said, the best course of action to keep your PR is for you is to get a vaccine as soon as possible and move to Canada right after getting it (delaying after the vaccine would probably work against you as well as it could be perceived as proof that covid wasn't really what was delaying the move but economic reasons).

On the other hand, the risks, the job issue (and the job market in Canada is impacted by Covid of course) and any other personal reasons could just as well be valid reasons for you to not move to Canada, give up on PR and one day reapply if you can still qualify, there is nothing wrong with such a choice either.

 

[armoured]

I believe that as Armoured said, the best course of action to keep your PR is for you is to get a vaccine as soon as possible and move to Canada right after getting it (delaying after the vaccine would probably work against you as well as it could be perceived as proof that covid wasn't really what was delaying the move but economic reasons).

I largely agree with your points above (and no desire to quibble about differences of emphasis).

I would clarify one point: I tried to phrase to avoid suggesting any specific sequencing (eg vaccine first and then move to Canada). I don't know that this is correct or appropriate - either from a health standpoint, or - what's relevant here - from the standpoint of how officers at the border or other officials will approach later. At some point when Canada gets to more clearly having high levels of vaccine and low levels of Covid transmission, and the vaccine widely available, they might (even reasonably) wonder why individuals did not return and get vaccinated in Canada. Or that the health risks of travelling are arguably less than returning. Plus of course I have no idea of the specifics or validity of the health claims made.

Hence my attempted-neutral "get vaccinated as soon as possible. Return to Canada as soon as possible." No idea of the correct sequence or weighting of these factors.

As to the overall point of your post (as I interpret it) - a warning that the existence of good reasons for leniency now is no guarantee, and the risks rise as time goes on, and a related risk that many PRs may 'stretch' things beyond with the belief/hope that it will all be forgiven (because covid) - I agree.

As a side note, I basically think this is the answer to why IRCC does not, under any circumstances, provide 'advance approval' of non-compliance: because if some kind of approval were given, it would in many cases result in a subsequent additional period of non-compliance, and another request, and another. And this would be a MASSIVE waste of resources - they'd end re-adjudicating the same cases again and again. (And possibly re-litigating).*

Hence the simple approach: if you wish to demonstrate your desire to return to Canada - do so. It will be adjudicated / considered only at the time of arrival, or after. But: return to Canada. Show you are returning to Canada by showing up - otherwise it is mostly not worth the effort - too many wouldn''t show up or would ask for additional extensions, etc.

[We could imagine a case where they approve someone to be out of compliance by an additional three months and then ... the day before that three months (yet) another request arrives asking for another three months. Also with ... good reasons! And so on. Plus the issue of putting the burden now on IRCC, with potential legal ramifications - it was approved the time before, why not now? Etc. Far simpler and less of a waste of resources to let the PR 'vote with their feet' by actually arriving, and if they can't be bothered to do that, they're probably not interested or sufficiently committed to being ... permanent residents.]

 

[armoured]

I should have added my now-ritual warning:

A PR who arrives somewhat out-of-compliance and is waved through CANNOT count on that lenience being extended/repeated for future border crossings. It doesn't 'forgive' anything, really.

So for many PRs - who have family or job requirements or whatever other need to travel (as many do) may face repeated issues and risks in future, whenever they return to Canada.

For many, that's just not realistic, and it's 'incompatible with their lifestyle' or plans. Often it might possibly have been possible or compatible - had they returned to Canada mostly permanently one, three, six, or twelve months earlier.

Another reason to return soonest, and ideally before being non-compliant.

 

[tempshakir]

Does the RO timer start from the date of landing or the start date in the PR card?

my PR expiry is in Aug 2023. However, I made the landing in Mar 2018. I am planning to move to Canada before the start of mandatory RO. What would be the start of my last two years of RO (Mar 2021 -2023 or Aug 2021-2023) ???

 

[scylla]

Does the RO timer start from the date of landing or the start date in the PR card?

my PR expiry is in Aug 2023. However, I made the landing in Mar 2018. I am planning to move to Canada before the start of mandatory RO. What would be the start of my last two years of RO (Mar 2021 -2023 or Aug 2021-2023) ???

Landing date. Date on your PR card isn't relevant for calculating the residency obligation.

The last two years of your RO are Mar 2021 to Mar 2023 if you landed Mar 2018.

 

[stan_shk]

Thank you @armoured and @Naheulbeuck for your replies and for the perspective on my situation.

I had posted this question on another thread (and later on this thread on the suggestion of a user on the other one). I see the question on the other thread has since been deleted so I don’t see an issue with that anymore.

Upon reading your take on my question, while your reply is certainly informative, I am concerned there is a bit of incorrectly characterizing my situation in your reply. First off, I believe in Vaccines. I had volunteered as a candidate for the Novavax vaccine trial in the city I live in (but they had their volunteers list full). At the same time, I am well read enough to understand that not all vaccines are very effective on all demographics and especially the vaccine effectiveness data on folks with chronic underlying health issues is weak. We do read about breakthrough cases at times, and it raises the following concern — given my chronic health condition, and knowing my health is solely my responsibility, should I travel? Sorry but it’s not as black and white as you describe it.

I agree I should not wait anymore for my job to transfer me to Canada but move once I feel it is safe enough. I have had my chronic health issue since the past few years now, and therefore have been stuck where I am considering a clear health risk in traveling and relocation, since this pandemic started. Were it not for the pandemic, I would have moved by now. None of us saw this pandemic coming.

I recognize that one is allowed to enter Canada until a decision is made to either accept/decline their compassionate request. My question is more about the following — if I have the required documents to support my request, why not lodge it online, rather than take the risk of traveling right now?

But clearly there is a) No process for lodging it online, and b) statistically, there is lack of consideration for such requests.

Either you travel and make it, risking your health and well being, or you don’t and you miss your PR. No one cares.

 

[tempshakir]

Landing date. Date on your PR card isn't relevant for calculating the residency obligation.

The last two years of your RO are Mar 2021 to Mar 2023 if you landed Mar 2018.

It looks like, I am non-compliant w.r.t RO as per the above dates. Will I be allowed into Canada if I make the travel next week? or it purely depends on the officer at the port of entry?

 

[steaky]

It looks like, I am non-compliant w.r.t RO as per the above dates. Will I be allowed into Canada if I make the travel next week? or it purely depends on the officer at the port of entry?

You will be allowed, but might get reported.

 

[Buletruck]

As a PR you are guaranteed entry, regardless of RO. The key is whether you are reported or not at entry.

 

[scylla]

Thank you @armoured and @Naheulbeuck for your replies and for the perspective on my situation.

I had posted this question on another thread (and later on this thread on the suggestion of a user on the other one). I see the question on the other thread has since been deleted so I don’t see an issue with that anymore.

Upon reading your take on my question, while your reply is certainly informative, I am concerned there is a bit of incorrectly characterizing my situation in your reply. First off, I believe in Vaccines. I had volunteered as a candidate for the Novavax vaccine trial in the city I live in (but they had their volunteers list full). At the same time, I am well read enough to understand that not all vaccines are very effective on all demographics and especially the vaccine effectiveness data on folks with chronic underlying health issues is weak. We do read about breakthrough cases at times, and it raises the following concern — given my chronic health condition, and knowing my health is solely my responsibility, should I travel? Sorry but it’s not as black and white as you describe it.

I agree I should not wait anymore for my job to transfer me to Canada but move once I feel it is safe enough. I have had my chronic health issue since the past few years now, and therefore have been stuck where I am considering a clear health risk in traveling and relocation, since this pandemic started. Were it not for the pandemic, I would have moved by now. None of us saw this pandemic coming.

I recognize that one is allowed to enter Canada until a decision is made to either accept/decline their compassionate request. My question is more about the following — if I have the required documents to support my request, why not lodge it online, rather than take the risk of traveling right now?

But clearly there is a) No process for lodging it online, and b) statistically, there is lack of consideration for such requests.

Either you travel and make it, risking your health and well being, or you don’t and you miss your PR. No one cares.

Technically there is another option.

Travel once you are able (but before the expiry of your PR card) and hope you are not reported at the border for failing to meet RO. Once you are in Canada, you can remain here for 2 years and successfully apply to renew your PR card (even if your original PR card has expired).

We see plenty of people here enter without being reported who technically don't meet RO. Of course it is a bit of a dice roll. But it's an option.

Generally speaking, the longer you arrive in Canada before the expiry of your PR card the better the chances are that you won't be reported. The closer you cut it (the longer you are outside of Canada), the greater the chances of being reported.

So this is something you can consider as well.

 

[tempshakir]

You will be allowed, but might get reported.

You will be allowed, but might get reported.

what are the repercussions of getting reported?
1. Will the person get deported before the expiry of the PR card?
2. Will the renewal option of PR is voided?

 

[steaky]

what are the repercussions of getting reported?
1. Will the person get deported before the expiry of the PR card?
2. Will the renewal option of PR is voided?

Don't get too much ahead of yourself. Wait until you really get reported.

 

[armoured]

I recognize that one is allowed to enter Canada until a decision is made to either accept/decline their compassionate request. My question is more about the following — if I have the required documents to support my request, why not lodge it online, rather than take the risk of traveling right now?

But clearly there is a) No process for lodging it online, and b) statistically, there is lack of consideration for such requests.

Either you travel and make it, risking your health and well being, or you don’t and you miss your PR. No one cares.

Yes, there is no such 'request' process - to repeat again, the only process while you have a valid PR card is to arrive at a port of entry and enter Canada. That's the only request you make is to enter Canada - and as a PR, you will be allowed to enter Canada, the only question is whether you are reported or not. And in covid, chances are decent that cbsa officers will take covid and health matters into account.

It is up to you how to proceed; no-one here of course knows your health issues or can tell you what decisions to make. (And I'll repeat: take care of your health first). It would be prudent to have some documentation of your health issue.