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My wife's PR expires in August 2022 and she's not in compliance of RO. Can she renews her PR card under H&C ground then leave Canada again.

danielhot

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May 11, 2022
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Hi all,

In my wife's home country, her father had a stroke on May 2020 while my wife and my daughter was with him. he also suffered severer post-stroke conditions and were being hospitalized till he passed away on beginning of 2022. My wife took care of her father during all those time because she's the only child of her maiden family and her mother has high blood pressure condition thus was unable to cope. She is now in a shortage of RO days now and her PR card expires on August 2022.

I'm planning to meet-up my wife and my daughter in Los Angeles this June and spend few days there then come back to Toronto together for her PR renewal. Me and my daughter are Canadian citizen.

Assume she doesn't get reported by custom officer because supporting documents for H&C ground and successfully enters Canada, can she applies for a PR renewal under H&C ground then leave Canada on July even she is not in compliance of RO, because she still need to bury her father and settle the heritage and care her mother for some time as her mother has health conditions too.

Is she going to be officially asked by boarder officer on entry to remain in Canada for two years continuously then renew, as a condition to retain the PR status. or it's just a safe way to do so other than applying using H&C ground?

If she can applies the renewal and leave, can she submit the application with supporting H&C proof to CPC in Sydney like regular renewal.

If she can't applies. what's the best way to retain her PR status if she has to leave Canada on July.

Thanks,
 
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steaky

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Why not just apply a multiple entry PRTD based on H&C at a Canadian consulate? If she want to retain her PR status, she should consider live in Canada rather than in her home country or staying in Los Angeles.
 

danielhot

Newbie
May 11, 2022
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Why not just apply a multiple entry PRTD based on H&C at a Canadian consulate? If she want to retain her PR status, she should consider live in Canada rather than in her home country or staying in Los Angeles.
Her PR is still valid till Aug 2022. She doesn’t need RPTD to enter Canada on July. She doesn’t live in Los Angeles. And I live and work in Toronto . We haven’t met each other for two years after outbreak of COVID. We plan to meet up in LA to spend some good time together, may be drive to Las Vegas. Then travel back to Canada together to in hope of helping her explain the situation on custom. She’s not good at English.

She wishes to renew her PR card, spend the first year or two abroad with her mom because her mom is very upset after her dad passed away. then come back to live in Canada and visiting her mother abroad occasionally.
 

steaky

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Her PR is still valid till Aug 2022. She doesn’t need RPTD to enter Canada on July. She doesn’t live in Los Angeles. And I live and work in Toronto . We haven’t met each other for two years after outbreak of COVID. We plan to meet up in LA to spend some good time together, may be drive to Las Vegas. Then travel back to Canada together to in hope of helping her explain the situation on custom. She’s not good at English.

She wishes to renew her PR card, spend the first year or two abroad with her mom because her mom is very upset after her dad passed away. then come back to live in Canada and visiting her mother abroad occasionally.
Getting a renewed PR card can take 6 months or longer. Can she wait that long? Also, there is no guarantee that H&C is approved. It might be better if you come to the home country to see her.
 

danielhot

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May 11, 2022
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How much time has your spouse actually spent in Canada since 2017? When did she become a PR?
She became PR on Aug 2012. She physically spent roughly one year and three months in Canada on her second PR which begins on Aug 2017. I visited her multiple times before outbreak of COVID, roughly 3 months if those count.
 

danielhot

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May 11, 2022
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Getting a renewed PR card can take 6 months or longer. Can she wait that long? Also, there is no guarantee that H&C is approved. It might be better if you come to the home country to see her.
Is she allowed to leave Canada after H&C PR renewal application is submitted? She plans to stay for one month in Canada mainly in sake of the renewal. Renewal is the key factor of come to Canada.
 

steaky

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Is she allowed to leave Canada after H&C PR renewal application is submitted? She plans to stay for one month in Canada mainly in sake of the renewal. Renewal is the key factor of come to Canada.
As you know, there are no exit control in Canada. I still do not understand why she need a renewed PR card. She could just apply for a multiple PRTD in home country
 

danielhot

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May 11, 2022
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As you know, there are no exit control in Canada. I still do not understand why she need a renewed PR card. She could just apply for a multiple PRTD in home country
my concern is, whether leaving Canada after submitting the application sabotage her H&C renewal application.
For PRTD, If she chooses not to come back to Canada for PR renewal before Aug. Her PR cards expires and she enters Canada 2023 by applying H&C multi RPTD. Can she still leave Canada without have to continuously live two years to be in compliance of RO? Like I mentioned, she need to visit her mom occasionally of her mom’s well-being.

or you mean she can comes and leave Canada as long as the multi RPTD is valid?
 

lossada

Hero Member
Sep 5, 2017
281
81
Hi all,

In my wife's home country, her father had a stroke on May 2020 while my wife and my daughter was with him. he also suffered severer post-stroke conditions and were being hospitalized till he passed away on beginning of 2022. My wife took care of her father during all those time because she's the only child of her maiden family and her mother has high blood pressure condition thus was unable to cope. She is now in a shortage of RO days now and her PR card expires on August 2022.

I'm planning to meet-up my wife and my daughter in Los Angeles this June and spend few days there then come back to Toronto together for her PR renewal. Me and my daughter are Canadian citizen.

Assume she doesn't get reported by custom officer because supporting documents for H&C ground and successfully enters Canada, can she applies for a PR renewal under H&C ground then leave Canada on July even she is not in compliance of RO, because she still need to bury her father and settle the heritage and care her mother for some time as her mother has health conditions too.

Is she going to be officially asked by boarder officer on entry to remain in Canada for two years continuously then renew, as a condition to retain the PR status. or it's just a safe way to do so other than applying using H&C ground?

If she can applies the renewal and leave, can she submit the application with supporting H&C proof to CPC in Sydney like regular renewal.

If she can't applies. what's the best way to retain her PR status if she has to leave Canada on July.

Thanks,
don't abuse,,,
don't come to Canada please,,, stay away
 
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dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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In my wife's home country, her father had a stroke on May 2020 while my wife and my daughter was with him. he also suffered severer post-stroke conditions and were being hospitalized till he passed away on beginning of 2022. My wife took care of her father during all those time because she's the only child of her maiden family and her mother has high blood pressure condition thus was unable to cope. She is now in a shortage of RO days now and her PR card expires on August 2022.

I'm planning to meet-up my wife and my daughter in Los Angeles this June and spend few days there then come back to Toronto together for her PR renewal. Me and my daughter are Canadian citizen.

Assume she doesn't get reported by custom officer because supporting documents for H&C ground and successfully enters Canada, can she applies for a PR renewal under H&C ground then leave Canada on July even she is not in compliance of RO, because she still need to bury her father and settle the heritage and care her mother for some time as her mother has health conditions too.

Is she going to be officially asked by boarder officer on entry to remain in Canada for two years continuously then renew, as a condition to retain the PR status. or it's just a safe way to do so other than applying using H&C ground?

If she can applies the renewal and leave, can she submit the application with supporting H&C proof to CPC in Sydney like regular renewal.

If she can't applies. what's the best way to retain her PR status if she has to leave Canada on July.
It warrants noting one important, back-up option in your situation: even if your spouse loses PR status, you can sponsor a new application for family class PR.

Otherwise . . . The situation and the options are quite complicated, and there are multiple tangents going in different directions depending on a number of things that are contingent. In the meantime, unfortunately you have encountered some of our less-than-helpful forum participants.

In contrast @armoured, among others, can generally be trusted to offer information and observations that are as helpful as those of us who are generally here to help can. But it is just early morning for most Canadians (and still in the middle of night for many more), so you need to be patient and wait for more constructive input.

Given the complexities of the situation, and frankly what appears to be some confusion you might have in regards to the relationship between a PR card and PR status, it would be very difficult to offer a full response. I'll try to hit some key elements, but it is not easy knowing where to start.

Depending on financial resources, perhaps she could consult with a lawyer, a paid-for real consultation (make appointment soon for a day she will be here).

Frankly, if she intends to remain abroad for a further extended period, other than for a short stay in Canada this year, the plan to apply for a new PR card is not likely to solve her PR Residency Obligation compliance issues. But, explaining this, and diving into options, really does get complicated and involves contingent events that are very difficult to predict. Your query, for example, assumes she is not Reported when she comes to Canada. That is a big assumption. Very difficult to say how that will actually go. I suspect the H&C case might not be as persuasive as you think, especially given she has been a PR for around a decade.

By the way, the calculation of her RO compliance at the border, when she arrives (and if questioned about RO compliance), will be based on how many days she has been in Canada during the last five years. Date her PR card expires is NOT relevant. That is, her RO compliance is not about how many days she has been "in Canada on her second PR." If she arrives at the border June 7, 2022, just as an example, RO compliance will be based on number of days in Canada between June 7, 2017 and June 7, 2022.

Which brings up future RO compliance calculations. If she goes abroad again this summer, and does not return to Canada again until October 23, 2023 (just as an example), the RO calculation upon her arrival will be based on days in Canada between October 23, 2018 and October 23, 2023, even if she gets a new PR card this year. This, it is worth noting, is a significant part of why applying for a new PR card this year will not necessarily solve her PR RO compliance issues.

And the latter could be why some might suggest just waiting to apply for a PR Travel Document later, when she plans to come to Canada after her current PR card expires.

Which brings this around to making a PR card application now based on H&C. Generally that approach is appropriate once the PR has come to Canada to stay. Since she is not coming to stay, once she has been abroad again for a significant period of time, in effect she will be relying on H&C relief again the next time she returns to Canada.

Apart from that, and this is an aspect of things where again there are contingencies difficult to forecast, the odds are she will not be issued and delivered a new PR card as long as she is abroad, but at BEST only be delivered a new PR card in-person. So the likelihood of having to make a future PR Travel Document application in order to travel to Canada looms anyway . . . or, assuming she can travel via the U.S. again, and travels to Canada via a land-border-crossing, she would then be subject to a PoE examination and facing the prospect of being issued a Removal Order (if scheduled for in-person PR card pick-up her GCMS will almost certainly be flagged for RO screening upon arrival at a PoE).

I realize I am not really answering your questions.

And I realize that once she returns here with you next month, the timeline for deciding and taking action is very short. But there are multiple ways things could go at the border (it is not just a simple matter of being either Reported or not Reported), and what actually happens will determine the options available from there. So at the least, you have to wait to see what happens at the border before making a definite decision about what to do next. As I noted, perhaps it would be a good idea to schedule a consultation with a lawyer.

One more observation for now; you ask:
"Is she going to be officially asked by boarder officer on entry to remain in Canada for two years continuously then renew, as a condition to retain the PR status. or it's just a safe way to do so other than applying using H&C ground?"​

PRs in breach of the RO are sometimes cautioned by border officials, or admonished, about the need to comply with their RO. This is typically attendant being waived through without being "Reported," even though the screening officer is aware that the PR is likely in breach of the RO (without making a formal determination the PR is in breach). If waived through, it is well known and understood that the PR can resolve their PR RO compliance breach by staying IN Canada for two years. But it is unlikely a border official will "ask" a PR to do this.

Note that the vast majority of situations involving PRs in RO breach being examined upon arrival at a PoE, as discussed in this forum, are about PRs in the first five or six years after they became a PR. That is not your spouse's circumstance. How this can influence things, including in particular how it goes in the course of a border entry examination, is yet one more complex aspect of things.

This response is already long, and trying to adequately address the various ways things could unfold at the border would make it way too long, so for now I will leave it with saying that the overall range is she could be waived through with minimal or a few casual questions (noting that whether cautioned or admonished about RO compliance is of almost no importance), or be subject to a formal RO determination following the preparation of a 44(1) Inadmissibility Report, in which her H&C case will be considered, and which could result in either setting aside the Report or being issued a Removal Order. Where to next depends on the details of what actually happens.
 

steaky

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Nov 11, 2008
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my concern is, whether leaving Canada after submitting the application sabotage her H&C renewal application.
For PRTD, If she chooses not to come back to Canada for PR renewal before Aug. Her PR cards expires and she enters Canada 2023 by applying H&C multi RPTD. Can she still leave Canada without have to continuously live two years to be in compliance of RO? Like I mentioned, she need to visit her mom occasionally of her mom’s well-being.

or you mean she can comes and leave Canada as long as the multi RPTD is valid?
In either cases, use a valid multiple PRTD, using expired PR card to a land border via USA or use a renewed PR card, would be the same chances of whether your spouse's H&C reasons would be considered or not.

In the worst case scenario, she can renounce her current PR status and you sponsor her from scratch.
 
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YVR123

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She became PR on Aug 2012. She physically spent roughly one year and three months in Canada on her second PR which begins on Aug 2017. I visited her multiple times before outbreak of COVID, roughly 3 months if those count.
I don't understand the timeline. She got her PR in Aug 2012 (that's almost 10 years ago). And there is no "second PR". Her RO counts backward from the day she enters Canada/of any day she encounter IRCC/CBSA.

So assuming that she is crossing the border today, only days she spent in Canada 5 years from today counts towards her RO. How much time did she spend in Canada since May 12, 2017? She cannot renew her PR card until she meets her RO. And I don't see why she needs to renew her PR card since she plans to leave again soon. She only need a PR card to enter into Canada, not to leave Canada.

I also do not understand about your 3 months of visits. None of those counts on her RO as she needs to be physically be in Canada to count the days.
 

danielhot

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May 11, 2022
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In either cases, use a valid multiple PRTD, using expired PR card to a land border via USA or use a renewed PR card, would be the same chances of whether your spouse's H&C reasons would be considered or not.

In the worst case scenario, she can renounce her current PR status and you sponsor her from scratch.
Can she applies H&C multi entry RPTD now while her current PR card is about to expire in Aug, and travel to Canada in June to apply for H&C PR card renewal? although staying two years continuously in Canada has absolutely no risk of losing PR status. But her circumstance that I mentioned on the thread, that's the alternative she can't take.

I read this informative thread on forum that mentions.

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/prtd-with-h-c-grounds-category-rc1.748167/

Pleas correct me if I'm wrongly understand the thread's POV. By the posted thread general POV.

Entry of Canada with approved H&C multi RPTD, she has a great chance of waive through. after she enters Canada, she may uses the approved H&C RPTD as a supporting evidence of H&C PR renewal. CPC-S probably would not do something against what the visa office approved. Of cause, no guarantee of approval. Even with approval of new PR card, it doesn't mean RO clock got reset. Whenever her next visit of Canada with possession of the new PR card, she will highly probably of getting a scrutiny by boarder official since they evaluate the RO compliance base on 730 days of previous five years on entry date in place of the time frame of your new PR card. but that's the risk she is willing to take.
 

steaky

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Can she applies H&C multi entry RPTD now while her current PR card is about to expire in Aug, and travel to Canada in June to apply for H&C PR card renewal? although staying two years continuously in Canada has absolutely no risk of losing PR status. But her circumstance that I mentioned on the thread, that's the alternative she can't take.

I read this informative thread on forum that mentions.

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/prtd-with-h-c-grounds-category-rc1.748167/

Pleas correct me if I'm wrongly understand the thread's POV. By the posted thread general POV.

Entry of Canada with approved H&C multi RPTD, she has a great chance of waive through. after she enters Canada, she may uses the approved H&C RPTD as a supporting evidence of H&C PR renewal. CPC-S probably would not do something against what the visa office approved. Of cause, no guarantee of approval. Even with approval of new PR card, it doesn't mean RO clock got reset. Whenever her next visit of Canada with possession of the new PR card, she will highly probably of getting a scrutiny by boarder official since they evaluate the RO compliance base on 730 days of previous five years on entry date in place of the time frame of your new PR card. but that's the risk she is willing to take.
If she apply for multiple entry PRTD based on H&C, she don't need to apply for the H&C PR card renewal. Same as if she apply for H&C PR card renewal, she don't need to apply for the H&C PRTD. She just choose 1 of the 2. If she must go to Canada in June, then she can just use her current PR card without applying either PRTD or renewal PR card.

I think you have a correct understanding of that informative thread in the forum.
 
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