My Story: Away for 35 years/Am I still a PR ? If not - What to do ?

[aaronbennett]

• Our entire family received Landed Immigrant status when all of us - all U.S. citizens - moved to Canada from the U.S. in 1969. None of our family became Canadian citizens.
• I attended Elementary + high school 1969 - 1975.
• After high school attended Canadian university for 2 years until 1977.
• Worked full-time in Canada 1977 - 1980
• Back to Canadian university 1980- 1982.
• Transferred to U.S. university/graduated 1984.
• In 1984, was told by Canada Immigration that if I worked in the U.S. ie.did not immediately return to Canada for greater than 6 months directly after graduation in the U.S. , I would lose my Landed Immigrant status.
• In fact, in 1984 after graduation - from a U.S. university - I accepted a job in the U.S.
• Fast forward to 2019
• I've been away from Canada since 1984 working full-time as a U.S. citizen until 2014.
• I retired 5 years ago in 2014
  
• Although not married, I entered into a Domestic Partner relationship in 2014 which has recently ended with legal paperwork processed.
• Father now deceased/mother still living in Canada and long ago retired/mother applied + received PR card back in 2002 (?) when PR cards first issued.
• So........Mother = U.S citizen with PR status in Canada,
• I've been traveling from the U.S. to Canada on a regular basis over the last 5 years to help as caretaker to my mother. I assumed I was entering Canada as a U.S. citizen but classifed as a visitor when in Canada.
• My total time in Canada over last 5 years is getting close to 730 days.
• I mainly cross the U.S. border using public transportation with an Enhanced Drivers License
• I've never been questioned by Canada Immigration when crossing to Canada from the U.S. since 1984 as a U.S. citizen. Please NOTE that I had assumed that I was no longer a PR from my conversation with Canada Immigration in 1984.
• In July 2018, while crossing border into Canada - by bus - to visit my mother, Immigration questioned my status.
• The imigration officer told me that they could NOT find me in their computer/data base. The reason he explained to me was that in 2002 (?) Canada updated their method of data collection. It was at that time ie 2002 ? that a lot of information - possibly mine as well - was lost.
• The officer told me that he would "allow" me to re-enter Canada as a visitor because Canada and the U.S. have a formal agreement that as a U.S. citizen I would be considered to be a Foreign National.
• The officer highly suggested that I visit an Immigration office while in Canada on that visit and straighten out my immigration status bc the next time I crossed the border I may be denied entry into Canada or at the very least would be queried by Canada Immigration every time I entered Canada. I've witness many visitors traveling by bus denied entry into Canada and left at the border.....which I understand if they do not have the proper identification/paperwork.
• I was unable to make an appointment with an Immigration office on that visit to Canada. Their offices require appointments and the wait time is substantial.
• I have contacted several lawyers with questions re: my PR status.
• Lawyer # 1: I am still a PR. If asked by Canada Immigration to prove my status...I will lose my PR status. Since I am retired/been away for apprx 35 years...I will not be successful in my quest to become a PR in Canada.
• Lawyer # 2: Since Canada Immigration cannot find me in their data base, I only have to meet the residency requirement of 730 days in Canada over the last 5 years. His recommendation: Before considering moving to Canada.....speak to a U.S / Canada accountant/lawyer on the tax implicaitions of PR status in Canada as a U.S. citizen.

Questions:

• I have read that the count of days begins the day I apply for PR status ?
• Do I have to be employed ?
• Must the 730 days be consecutive ?
• I am now retired - does this matter ?
  
• If no longer a PR can I re-apply with some level of confidence that I will be successful ?
  
• I have since crossed into Canada multiple times with no problems but each time I cross I know that my immigration status could be questioned. I wonder if I will be asked - as I cross the border - to renounce my PR status?

 

[Bs65]

Others can comment as well as for sure they will but first if you are retired then assume you are of retirement age so applying from scratch for PR not an option given there is no retiree program and unlikely age wise you would qualify for any of the economic streams.

Reading your lengthy post it is possible you are still a PR given other people have come on here with a different scenario where they applied for an ETA which required for visa exempts to board a plane to Canada and they were initially refused due to still being a PRs from near 40 years ago.

Some of these people before the ETA requirement came in travelled to and from Canada over the years with no issue and no questions about status but once the ETA program came in they were found to still be a PRs so given choice to renounce to get an ETA. Sounds more like speculation ref 2002 and lost records given the people caught out by the ETA implementation from similar time period.

PR status never expires but can only be revoked or renounced, there is no automated process to complete either based on a timeline.

It might be difficult for you to prove you have met the residency obligation without a residential address in Canada unless using your mothers. From CBP/CBSA you can get travel entry/exits to show when you were in Canada so at least that is not an issue. Residency obligation is not consecutive days but just a total of 730 days in the 5 years preceeding each new entry into Canada so the RO is a rolling 5 years .

The fact that you are a US citizen could mean you have been lucky in crossing the land border that entry may have just been granted on that basis as a visitor . On the other hand if you are ever questioned about your PR status again now you are in the system and have failed to meet the RO CBSA could start the process to revoke your PR status.

People with similar situation as yourself having failed the residency obligation take their chances at a land border and if entry successful stay put in Canada for 2 plus years before applying for a new PR card. Even then every time they leave the country they have to be wary of the fact the 5 years look back is reset every time they return, so needing to ensure they have 730 days banked in previous 5 years.

Lawyer #1 is correct if your residency obligation not met then immigration could start proceedings to revoke your PR status

Lawyer #2 I would question the validity of your status being lost but that could also go against you as if so there would be no proof of you being a PR in system so meeting the RO would be a mute point unless you provide proof you are a PR which would expose your residency. As above the 5 years resets every new entry so maintaining 730 days not straightforward. As for tax cannot answer that specifically although Canada/US have a tax arrangement/agreement/treaty so maybe consult a tax expert for your circumstances.

 

[scylla]

• Our entire family received Landed Immigrant status when all of us - all U.S. citizens - moved to Canada from the U.S. in 1969. None of our family became Canadian citizens.
• I attended Elementary + high school 1969 - 1975.
• After high school attended Canadian university for 2 years until 1977.
• Worked full-time in Canada 1977 - 1980
• Back to Canadian university 1980- 1982.
• Transferred to U.S. university/graduated 1984.
• In 1984, was told by Canada Immigration that if I worked in the U.S. ie.did not immediately return to Canada for greater than 6 months directly after graduation in the U.S. , I would lose my Landed Immigrant status.
• In fact, in 1984 after graduation - from a U.S. university - I accepted a job in the U.S.
• Fast forward to 2019
• I've been away from Canada since 1984 working full-time as a U.S. citizen until 2014.
• I retired 5 years ago in 2014
  
• Although not married, I entered into a Domestic Partner relationship in 2014 which has recently ended with legal paperwork processed.
• Father now deceased/mother still living in Canada and long ago retired/mother applied + received PR card back in 2002 (?) when PR cards first issued.
• So........Mother = U.S citizen with PR status in Canada,
• I've been traveling from the U.S. to Canada on a regular basis over the last 5 years to help as caretaker to my mother. I assumed I was entering Canada as a U.S. citizen but classifed as a visitor when in Canada.
• My total time in Canada over last 5 years is getting close to 730 days.
• I mainly cross the U.S. border using public transportation with an Enhanced Drivers License
• I've never been questioned by Canada Immigration when crossing to Canada from the U.S. since 1984 as a U.S. citizen. Please NOTE that I had assumed that I was no longer a PR from my conversation with Canada Immigration in 1984.
• In July 2018, while crossing border into Canada - by bus - to visit my mother, Immigration questioned my status.
• The imigration officer told me that they could NOT find me in their computer/data base. The reason he explained to me was that in 2002 (?) Canada updated their method of data collection. It was at that time ie 2002 ? that a lot of information - possibly mine as well - was lost.
• The officer told me that he would "allow" me to re-enter Canada as a visitor because Canada and the U.S. have a formal agreement that as a U.S. citizen I would be considered to be a Foreign National.
• The officer highly suggested that I visit an Immigration office while in Canada on that visit and straighten out my immigration status bc the next time I crossed the border I may be denied entry into Canada or at the very least would be queried by Canada Immigration every time I entered Canada. I've witness many visitors traveling by bus denied entry into Canada and left at the border.....which I understand if they do not have the proper identification/paperwork.
• I was unable to make an appointment with an Immigration office on that visit to Canada. Their offices require appointments and the wait time is substantial.
• I have contacted several lawyers with questions re: my PR status.
• Lawyer # 1: I am still a PR. If asked by Canada Immigration to prove my status...I will lose my PR status. Since I am retired/been away for apprx 35 years...I will not be successful in my quest to become a PR in Canada.
• Lawyer # 2: Since Canada Immigration cannot find me in their data base, I only have to meet the residency requirement of 730 days in Canada over the last 5 years. His recommendation: Before considering moving to Canada.....speak to a U.S / Canada accountant/lawyer on the tax implicaitions of PR status in Canada as a U.S. citizen.

Questions:

• I have read that the count of days begins the day I apply for PR status ?
• Do I have to be employed ?
• Must the 730 days be consecutive ?
• I am now retired - does this matter ?
  
• If no longer a PR can I re-apply with some level of confidence that I will be successful ?
  
• I have since crossed into Canada multiple times with no problems but each time I cross I know that my immigration status could be questioned. I wonder if I will be asked - as I cross the border - to renounce my PR status?

It's hard to say if you are still a PR or not. It's possible you still are. Also possible that something may have happened since 1984 to trigger the loss of your PR status.

To answer your questions:
1. I don't understand this one. You must have 730 days of physical residency in Canada within the last 5 years in order to renew your PR card. This is calculated effective the date you apply for the new PR card.
2. No.
3. No.
4. No - assume it won't be possible to reapply for PR. There are no immigration streams geared towards those who are retired and your points will be too low due to your age to qualify through any other stream.
5. Yes - always possible this may happen or that CBSA will report you for failing to meet the residency obligation which would trigger a hearing and the revocation of your PR status. If you want to have a go at the 730 days, you should keep border crossings to a minimum.

 

[canuck78]

Big issue you need to figure out is whether you are indeed a PR.

 

[Nlkko]

You're not a PR and therefore cannot renew a status you don't have.

The fact that you're in Canada and stays for 730 days does not make you eligible to renew anything. You're still a visitor that is overstaying.

These lawyers are dumb or what?

 

[canuck_in_uk]

You're not a PR and therefore cannot renew a status you don't have.

The fact that you're in Canada and stays for 730 days does not make you eligible to renew anything. You're still a visitor that is overstaying.

These lawyers are dumb or what?

It is entirely possible that OP is still a PR.

 

[scylla]

You're not a PR and therefore cannot renew a status you don't have.

The fact that you're in Canada and stays for 730 days does not make you eligible to renew anything. You're still a visitor that is overstaying.

These lawyers are dumb or what?

It's actually entirely possible that the OP is still a PR. Unless PR was revoked sometime since 1984 - he is still a PR. PR status is not revoked automatically - either IRCC or the OP would have had to have triggered the revocation.

And yes, if he's still a PR, remaining in Canada for 730 days will allow him to renew his PR card.

The lawyers' advice is accurate.