Multiple TRV Refusals from India, how to fix what we don't know?

[Oceanna]

Hi all,

I have been keeping my eye on these forums for a while. My partner is an Indian and we have been together for over two years and up until this May I was living in India to be close to him, while working on an Employment Visa. My two year window expired and so I cannot return to India just now. Last summer at my parent's behest we invited him to come to Canada. As they are the ones with the assets and funds the invitation letter came from them along with property assessments and both of their tax returns.

My sweetheart is the oldest son in a joint family. He runs a business, and has the responsibility of not only the business but the whole family. His father was the head of the household and although my sweetie had all the bank cards and managed everything, most was in his father's name - except his personal account, and he didn't receive a salary because all money was shared.

We were refused last summer, for reasons of "Other - employment prospects, ties to home etc". We were devastated and had our MP's office look into it - they were concerned that his only travel was to Dubai, and Nepal, that he has an Aunt who is a Canadian with Canadian children (though they live in Saskatchewan and Halifax and I'm from BC), and just generally they didn't believe that he would go home at the end of the visa, despite me also including my ticket on the same flight and signed contract to work another year in India.

We even contacted a different MPs office who had an assistant who was known to specialize in Visa applications. He looked over our submission, suggested a few tweaks and we reapplied. Again we were refused.

So we took it on the chin, and I flew back to India, we spent another year living and working and we had intended to marry in March. Tragically, his father passed away unexpectedly in January and our plans had to be put on hold. Now my partner is really the provider for himself, his mother, grandmother, aunt, younger sister and brother (who also works at the shop). He has been putting money into his personal account throughout the year to build his case, but all of his father's assets they transferred to his mother's name to protect her as a widow. They did create a document that gives him power of attorney and asserts she is simply a figurehead for the company, that he does all the work. We provided bank statements, for the business and for his personal funds, a letter from his mother explaining, for him clarifying about his travel history and his family connections. We included photos from our relationship, flight tickets etc. All of us had enough money, especially considering he would be staying with me and my parents.

Again we were refused.

Now I cannot return to India for some time and have started a program in the USA.
We don't know who to turn to or ask about this, and would like to try again for a Christmastime visit. Is it wiser to try for a visitor's visa to the USA and hope to get CAN+ when we re-apply, and if not just have him visit me in the states? My MPs office said this time there were no additional notes and again it was just sort of that generic Others box ticked. Is it helpful to talk to an immigration lawyer? What could our next step be to ensure future success. Three refusals feels pretty insurmountable, has anyone faced this and gotten a positive outcome? What did you do?

Are we giving them too MUCH information?

Thanks for your help or suggestions

 

[scylla]

You should request his GCMS notes before you apply again so that you can see the detailed reasons behind the refusals.

 

[Oceanna]

You should request his GCMS notes before you apply again so that you can see the detailed reasons behind the refusals.

Thanks Scylla, We did request again and this time there were no additional notes. The MPs office said they have been seeing many refusals out of India lately with no additional notes on file

 

[scylla]

OK - good that you explored that.

Generally speaking, his ties to Canada look too strong right now given your relationship and also the family he has in Canada. His ties to his home country look too weak. You cannot go back in time, but if you could, all of us here would have advised you to really minimize the evidence of your relationship and focus on his ties to his home country. I didn't see how long a trip you requested, but that could have been another issue. With his profile, you should have kept it to 2-3 weeks.

Also, the power of attorney is pretty meaningless. It's very easy to draw one of these up and generally speaking it doesn't lend much strength to an application. IRCC generally wants to see more substantial proof of ties (like the business being entirely in his name). Working for a family business also tends to be a weaker tie vs. working for an employer.

There are other areas where you should probably have taken a different path. For example, I wouldn't have provided your parents' bank account, tax statement and assets - instead, I would have focused on demonstrating that he had sufficient funds to pay for the trip on his own.

With three refusals, I would recommend you not apply again until his profile substantially changes and until some time has passed.

 

[Oceanna]

Thanks Scylla,

We applied just for twelve days because he is the boss and ultimately the owner of his family business (though it is registered in his mother's name), there is just his little brother to look after it in his absence with 8 employees under him. I didn't provide my parents' bank accounts, but they do ask for tax returns and property assessment from the person who is doing the inviting, presumably to demonstrate that they CAN in fact sponsor someone's visit so it seemed imprudent NOT to include them when they were requested. We were also advised by both MP office to include these things - both the letter from his father last year and the letter from his mother insisted that he must return due to the family's dependence on him.

We didn't include any mention his Canadian family in the first application, it was the govt who pointed it out and we only came to know in the notes the MPs office looked into after. They flagged that since we DIDN'T mention them it looked suspicious. Even though they are not immediate family and Sasketchewan is far from BC.

There is not much we can do about him running his own business - it is successful, and has been in the family since 1857 -- we included our Etsy site, which has been online for two years, his website and bank account demonstrating more than enough money for his own payment of the trip. Also his is financially responsible for 5 other people who all directly depend on him being in the country. I'm not seeing how anything here can change significantly. We are concerned that if we get married the ties to Canada will become even stronger. It seems silly to wait to apply for PR because we can't get a TRV, when he doesn't desire to live there.

Are there lawyers who can help with these types of applications? What about the USA route?

 

[Oceanna]

Also we were wondering if I visit India in October if there is any possibility of meeting with the embassy in person together to understand how to strengthen our case and also to prove he has no intention of staying.

 

[scylla]

Also we were wondering if I visit India in October if there is any possibility of meeting with the embassy in person together to understand how to strengthen our case and also to prove he has no intention of staying.

Embassy doesn't entertain in-person visits. So no - not an option.

 

[scylla]

Thanks Scylla,

We applied just for twelve days because he is the boss and ultimately the owner of his family business (though it is registered in his mother's name), there is just his little brother to look after it in his absence with 8 employees under him. I didn't provide my parents' bank accounts, but they do ask for tax returns and property assessment from the person who is doing the inviting, presumably to demonstrate that they CAN in fact sponsor someone's visit so it seemed imprudent NOT to include them when they were requested. We were also advised by both MP office to include these things - both the letter from his father last year and the letter from his mother insisted that he must return due to the family's dependence on him.

We didn't include any mention his Canadian family in the first application, it was the govt who pointed it out and we only came to know in the notes the MPs office looked into after. They flagged that since we DIDN'T mention them it looked suspicious. Even though they are not immediate family and Sasketchewan is far from BC.

There is not much we can do about him running his own business - it is successful, and has been in the family since 1857 -- we included our Etsy site, which has been online for two years, his website and bank account demonstrating more than enough money for his own payment of the trip. Also his is financially responsible for 5 other people who all directly depend on him being in the country. I'm not seeing how anything here can change significantly. We are concerned that if we get married the ties to Canada will become even stronger. It seems silly to wait to apply for PR because we can't get a TRV, when he doesn't desire to live there.

Are there lawyers who can help with these types of applications? What about the USA route?

Understand that MPs are not immigration experts. They don't always provide the best advice and sometimes lead people astray.

You can certainly hire a lawyer - however having a lawyer doesn't increase your chances of being approved. Approval is still dependent on the strength of your application.

He can certainly apply for a US visa. Note that he will have to list the three Canadian refusal in that application and that may weaken the US visa application. If the US visa is approved and he travels to the US, I would still recommend he wait a while before reapplying to Canada.

 

[Oceanna]

Thanks Scylla, are you working for the VAC in Toronto?

 

[scylla]

Thanks Scylla, are you working for the VAC in Toronto?

No. This is a public forum. All of us here are normal people like you who have gone or are going through the immigration process.

 

[Bryanna]

He runs a business, and has the responsibility of not only the business but the whole family. His father was the head of the household and although my sweetie had all the bank cards and managed everything, most was in his father's name - except his personal account, and he didn't receive a salary because all money was shared.

Unfortunately, his business ties are non-existent in terms of paperwork for a visa.

To prove his employment ties, he must have the business registered in his name + pay taxes,. Basically, he must have the paperwork for the business/ hiring of employees/paying the taxes/ownership or leasing of the business property, etc in his name, not in his mom's name.

He has been putting money into his personal account throughout the year to build his case,

He cannot arbitrarily transfer money from a business account to his personal account for a visa. He can withdraw funds from a business bank account as dividends/profits depending on how the business has been set up.

but all of his father's assets they transferred to his mother's name to protect her as a widow.

His mom must have been the legal inheritor after his dad's death. Hence, the transfer to her name. Having assets as a widow does not protect her nor the assets.

We included photos from our relationship, flight tickets etc.

This is the key reason for his repeated refusals. The visa officer has concerns that he won't be a genuine visitor, that you will start the spousal PR process via the inland route, and he won't return. Unfortunately, his ties to India cannot be substantiated by paperwork which makes his application a very weak case.

Your finances are secondary. He must prove he has the finances + the reasons to return. And, IMO, he cannot.

Is it wiser to try for a visitor's visa to the USA and hope to get CAN+ when we re-apply, and if not just have him visit me in the states?

CAN+ does nothing to assure someone of a TRV.


Three refusals: Don't reapply. If you want to attempt one more reapplication then reapply only after his personal and professional situation improves considerably.

Even when he applies later, IMO, the chances of a TRV approval are almost zero because he has declared his relationship to you which does not make him seem like a genuine, short-term visitor + he does not have strong ties to India + no travel history


Cheers

 

[Anwers]

Also we were wondering if I visit India in October if there is any possibility of meeting with the embassy in person together to understand how to strengthen our case and also to prove he has no intention of staying.

Why dont you guys travel to other country for short trip like 10..12 days .. and having couple of trips like before reapplying will make good and significant impact on his application.. but keep in mind travelling to Australia, NZ , UK ,USA and japan thats wat count ...

 

[krislaks]

My sympathies. Can you guys get married in a Govt. registry office in India and initiate the PR for him?

 

[Mr.Gul]

No. This is a public forum. All of us here are normal people like you who have gone or are going through the immigration process.

Hi Scylla, please suggest something to me too about my trv refusal