Moving to Canada while outland PR application is in process

[GeeseGoose]

Greetings fellow Canadians and would-be-Canadians!

I am a Canadian who is sponsoring my German husband using the Family Class (outland). Our plan is to submit the application from here in Germany very soon, and then I will move back to Canada to begin work and get a car and house, etc., in the spring. Then my husband will join me once he receives the AoR and I have a job. My uncertainty is about him coming to Canada when the application is still in process. We plan on him ending all residential ties here in Germany (quitting his job, giving up our apartment), so this means when he gets to the border agents in Canada, he will not have proof that he plans to only visit and then go back to Germany if need be, because we don't plan to do that. We don't want to have to buy a return plane ticket either (which would be a waste of money). We plan on extending his Visitor's Record if he doesn't get his PR by the time his 6-month free visit runs out, since our application is quite a simple case, and the current estimated processing time for outland applications from Germany is 10 months.

My questions then are:
1) How likely is it that the border agents will refuse him entry, on the basis that it looks like he plans to stay in Canada permanently? Do they then tell him to immediately buy a plane ticket and go back to Germany? Or is it instead possible that with the AoR, my Letter of Invitation, our marriage certificate, and his eTA, that they will instead give him a Visitor's Record for 1 year or more, and waive the need for a return plane ticket?

2) Would it help our situation to additionally get him a Visitor's Visa before he comes to Canada, so he knows he can stay for at least 1 year? Would he then also not need a return plane ticket? The $100 for this would obviously outweigh the cost of a $1000 plane ticket.

Thanks in advance!

 

[armoured]

1) My own view is that it's pretty unlikely. That said, he shouldn't show up with all his worldly belongings. I also don't think the plane ticket tends to make as much difference these days, esp from europe/usa where tickets widely available on line.

That said: it would usually be better if he does say he needs to return for 'some household stuff' (or whatever), but yes, he has the spousal in process and does intend to become a permanent resident. Just that he knows he can't stay in Canada without valid status, and will return if he needs to. (If he subsequently changes his mind and applies to extend his stay, that's not illegal).

But it's also fairly possible that they just won't be concerned at all given the circumstances.

FYI once he gets AOR and is in Canada he can apply for a work permit.

YMMV but it's fairly rare that they send someone with a valid visa or ETA back unless there's something egregious in their intent or criminal records or something unusual. Most often at airport with an EU passport might be a question or two (eg I'm visiting, staying with family), and you'd get waived through without them even opening your bags. Even if he did get pulled into secondary, they'd still most likely just let him in too.

2) I think that would raise more questions than it would answer.

 

[Ponga]

Greetings fellow Canadians and would-be-Canadians!

I am a Canadian who is sponsoring my German husband using the Family Class (outland). Our plan is to submit the application from here in Germany very soon, and then I will move back to Canada to begin work and get a car and house, etc., in the spring. Then my husband will join me once he receives the AoR and I have a job. My uncertainty is about him coming to Canada when the application is still in process. We plan on him ending all residential ties here in Germany (quitting his job, giving up our apartment), so this means when he gets to the border agents in Canada, he will not have proof that he plans to only visit and then go back to Germany if need be, because we don't plan to do that. We don't want to have to buy a return plane ticket either (which would be a waste of money). We plan on extending his Visitor's Record if he doesn't get his PR by the time his 6-month free visit runs out, since our application is quite a simple case, and the current estimated processing time for outland applications from Germany is 10 months.

My questions then are:
1) How likely is it that the border agents will refuse him entry, on the basis that it looks like he plans to stay in Canada permanently? Do they then tell him to immediately buy a plane ticket and go back to Germany? Or is it instead possible that with the AoR, my Letter of Invitation, our marriage certificate, and his eTA, that they will instead give him a Visitor's Record for 1 year or more, and waive the need for a return plane ticket?

2) Would it help our situation to additionally get him a Visitor's Visa before he comes to Canada, so he knows he can stay for at least 1 year? Would he then also not need a return plane ticket? The $100 for this would obviously outweigh the cost of a $1000 plane ticket.

Thanks in advance!

see this:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/temporary-residents/visitors/dual-intent-applicants.html

Dual intent is present when a foreign national who has applied, or may apply, for permanent residence in Canada also applies to enter Canada for a temporary period as a

• visitor
• student
• worker

Having 2 intents (initially for temporary residence and eventually for permanent residence) is legitimate.


Spouses and partners

Officers should consider the individual circumstances of a foreign national who is seeking to join their spouse or common-law partner who is already residing in Canada.


Factors to consider include, but are not limited to,

• whether a sponsorship application has been approved, if applicable. [note] The AoR that you mention in your post is nothing more than the `Acknowledgement of Receipt' of the sponsorship application by IRCC.
• whether an application for permanent residence is proceeding towards approval, if applicable
• the applicant’s ongoing ties in their home country. [note] He would be wise to have answers at the ready if questioned about his ties back `home'.
• the result of being without status in Canada, e.g. the inability to work, inability to study, no access to health care, risk of being deported, etc.

 

[GeeseGoose]

see this:
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/operational-bulletins-manuals/temporary-residents/visitors/dual-intent-applicants.html

Dual intent is present when a foreign national who has applied, or may apply, for permanent residence in Canada also applies to enter Canada for a temporary period as a

• visitor
• student
• worker

Having 2 intents (initially for temporary residence and eventually for permanent residence) is legitimate.


Spouses and partners

Officers should consider the individual circumstances of a foreign national who is seeking to join their spouse or common-law partner who is already residing in Canada.


Factors to consider include, but are not limited to,

• whether a sponsorship application has been approved, if applicable. [note] The AoR that you mention in your post is nothing more than the `Acknowledgement of Receipt' of the sponsorship application by IRCC.
• whether an application for permanent residence is proceeding towards approval, if applicable
• the applicant’s ongoing ties in their home country. [note] He would be wise to have answers at the ready if questioned about his ties back `home'.
• the result of being without status in Canada, e.g. the inability to work, inability to study, no access to health care, risk of being deported, etc.

Dual Intent is a good term to know, thank you! So I think it would be best to suggest to them this term when he arrives at the border. Since Germany is a visa-free country, he would get 6 months stay by default, even if they just stamped his passport and sent him on in. Our goal though is to get at least a year though, which I think he should just straight up ask them for at the border, since he has this Dual Intent. Maybe by then he will have some other indication from IRCC of the status of his application, but I had only yet read about the AoR.

 

[GeeseGoose]

1) My own view is that it's pretty unlikely. That said, he shouldn't show up with all his worldly belongings. I also don't think the plane ticket tends to make as much difference these days, esp from europe/usa where tickets widely available on line.

That said: it would usually be better if he does say he needs to return for 'some household stuff' (or whatever), but yes, he has the spousal in process and does intend to become a permanent resident. Just that he knows he can't stay in Canada without valid status, and will return if he needs to. (If he subsequently changes his mind and applies to extend his stay, that's not illegal).

But it's also fairly possible that they just won't be concerned at all given the circumstances.

FYI once he gets AOR and is in Canada he can apply for a work permit.

YMMV but it's fairly rare that they send someone with a valid visa or ETA back unless there's something egregious in their intent or criminal records or something unusual. Most often at airport with an EU passport might be a question or two (eg I'm visiting, staying with family), and you'd get waived through without them even opening your bags. Even if he did get pulled into secondary, they'd still most likely just let him in too.

2) I think that would raise more questions than it would answer.

Good to know about the plane ticket! I was pretty frustrated about that, the couple of times I saw it mentioned on the IRCC website.

Do you think that, as Ponga said, if he has Dual Intent, then having "all of his worldly possessions" might not be so bad? He is not planning on bringing much anyway, but I just don't want him to have to lie to the border agents, telling them he is planning on going back. Better to just be honest and say "I'll go back if I have to, but that is not the plan", right?

Oh and thanks for the tip about the Open Work Permit - that is already in our plan

 

[Ponga]

Dual Intent is a good term to know, thank you! So I think it would be best to suggest to them this term when he arrives at the border. Since Germany is a visa-free country, he would get 6 months stay by default, even if they just stamped his passport and sent him on in. Our goal though is to get at least a year though, which I think he should just straight up ask them for at the border, since he has this Dual Intent. Maybe by then he will have some other indication from IRCC of the status of his application, but I had only yet read about the AoR.

Yes, it is good to KNOW, but that doesn't mean he should broadcast that `knowledge' to the officer! He should,`be prepared on how he will answer questions about his plans', if asked.

Also, just because he holds a German passport, that does not guarantee that he will get the `default' 6 months, if he is admitted.

 

[armoured]

Good to know about the plane ticket! I was pretty frustrated about that, the couple of times I saw it mentioned on the IRCC website.

Do you think that, as Ponga said, if he has Dual Intent, then having "all of his worldly possessions" might not be so bad? He is not planning on bringing much anyway, but I just don't want him to have to lie to the border agents, telling them he is planning on going back. Better to just be honest and say "I'll go back if I have to, but that is not the plan", right?

Oh and thanks for the tip about the Open Work Permit - that is already in our plan

-I do not suggest mentioning dual intent - it sounds 'lawyery', if you know what I mean. (Only someone thinking about long stays and justifying why it's okay knows the term).
-The problem is that the dual intent just means that having dual intent on its own is not proof of intent to overstay - but it still leaves it entirely in the officer's judgment. In cynical terms, it partly just means the officers know they can't write that as a reason for refusal.
-No, all worldly possessions still bad.

I stand by what I said above. It's easier/better to say he's visiting, but it's up to you. After all, people travel to Europe for a week, so no big deal. If he's coming for several months and heading back for even a short while, still a visit.

Also, forget about asking for the year on entry. That's silly - it flags to them need for much longer stay, requires them to ask more questions. Extensions though are routinely granted, esp for those with PR apps in process.

That said - my opinion, make your own decisions.