Mother born in Quebec but if she wasn't a Cdn citizen when she had me then ...?

[Maggie65]

I posted this here already after someone in the family class immigration section suggested I post this here instead of there, and it disappeared from here...??

The immigration section of the Canadian government's website says that I am 'PROBABLY' already a Canadian citizen by virtue of the fact that my mother was born in Canada (Quebec, 1928). What I'm unclear of is - seeing as she was a naturalized American and no longer a Canadian when she had me (she married an American - my dad - in 1959 and I was born here in the States in '65) ... am I still considered a Canadian citizen? I think I read somewhere that she had to have been a Canadian citizen when she gave birth to me, for me to be a Canadian citizen. I'm doubting she formally renounced her Canadian citizenship when she came to the States because we briefly moved to Montreal - my parents and their 3 kids - in 1969/1970, before turning around and coming back to the States again ('you can't go home again' syndrome + my dad died while they were in Montreal.)

Either way, considering that she was indeed born in Canada and lived there until the age of 31, and considering that i have numerous lifelong Canadian citizen blood relatives (i.e. uncles, aunts, cousins - NO parents, spouses, children or grandparents) in Quebec, does any of this help me in any way to become a Canadian citizen?

If not ... I have worked full time for 25 years (in the US) in the insurance field under what the National Occupational Classification considers to be a 'skilled' job in Canada. I'm 51 yrs old, 100% healthy and active, have top notch credit, no criminal record, no children, and would be fully employable - a taxpaying citizen from day one - with plans to buy property and eventually retire in Ontario, where I have close friends and where I have visited at least twice a year for the past 20+ years. I sadly speak no French, and hence have no plans to live in Quebec - it's Ontario for me.

Can anyone with knowledge tell me what you think my odds are? I know I can get a definite yes or no by applying for citizenship, but the 5-10 month wait is a bit daunting. Frankly, I'd rather know now that there is no possible way I could become a citizen, if that is what I'm almost undoubtedly going to hear from the Canadian immigration folks.

Many thanks! And if anyone can tell my why my post disappeared with no warning or explanation, that'd be appreciated too! I'm brand new here.

 

[Rigly68]

If your mother didn't renounce her Canadian Citizenship as you mentioned then why would you say she was not a Canadian Citizen when she gave birth to you?
As you say you doubt she renounced her citizenship then the tool on IRCC website is correct that you are most likely a Canadian Citizen and you should go ahead and apply for the "proof of Citizenship" certificate. Honestly I would apply for the certificate!

 

[Maggie65]

Hi - thanks for your reply. Perhaps I'm completely naive here, but I just assumed seeing as she became a naturalized citizen of another country when she married my dad, that that would mean she had given up her Canadian citizenship automatically. Unless one applies for dual citizenship, wouldn't her having become an American citizen mean she was, again, no longer a Canadian citizen? Now this is 1959 mind you - who knows what the laws were then.

Also, I know I read somewhere in the citizenship act - I read this twice but can't find it now - that the parent had to be a Canadian citizen when they gave birth to you, in order for you to be a Canadian citizen. My mum, again, was an American citizen living in the States for 6 years when she gave birth to me ... unless she somehow still retained her Canadian citizenship because she didn't formally renounce it (I'm guessing)?

Do I have this completely wrong?

Thanks again.

 

[scylla]

Dual citizenship isn't something you apply for. My husband was born a US citizen. He then applied for and received Canadian citizenship. Now he has dual citizenship.

She would have needed to have renounced her Canadian citizenship not to be a citizen at the time of your birth. Is this something you can ask her about?

 

[Coffee1981]

Good thing you're asking now and not before 2009 when they changed the law. Your mother had her citizenship restored (as she probably lost it when she married an American and ceased to be a British Subject) in 2009 under section 3(1)(k) of the Citizenship Act, and you, as a first generation born abroad, are eligible for citizenship. Best way to find out for sure is to submit a Proof of Citizenship application for $75 and get an answer from the government. But yes, you "probably" are, as the website says.

Section 3(1)(k) reads: (k) the person, before January 1, 1947, was born or naturalized in Canada but ceased to be a British subject, and did not become a citizen on that day;

The section relevant to you is 3(1)(b): (b) the person was born outside Canada after February 14, 1977 and at the time of his birth one of his parents, other than a parent who adopted him, was a citizen;

 

[Maggie65]

Thanks - you are very kind to answer. Only question would be ... as I indicated in my original post, I was born in 1965, not after 1977. Does that change things?

 

[Coffee1981]

Shouldn't. Canada was even more generous with generations born abroad under the old Act.

 

[Maggie65]

Dual citizenship isn't something you apply for. My husband was born a US citizen. He then applied for and received Canadian citizenship. Now he has dual citizenship.

She would have needed to have renounced her Canadian citizenship not to be a citizen at the time of your birth. Is this something you can ask her about?

Hi Scylla - unfortunately I cannot ask my mother - she is deceased. I'm guessing she did not formally renounce her Canadian citizenship when she married my dad - unless there was some weird 50's US law - this was after all during the height of the McCarthy witch hunt - requiring that new citizens do so. I say this because as i had noted, she, my dad, myself and my 2 siblings all moved to Montreal in 1969 and stayed for about a year, before my dad up and died, and my mum decided to return to the States. I'm guessing that she would not have been allowed back in had she renounced her citizenship.

 

[Maggie65]

Shouldn't. Canada was even more generous with generations born abroad under the old Act.

Many thanks to you for your kind assistance.

 

[foodie69]

There is only one way to find out..as per first answer.

 

[alphazip]

Virtually every person with a Canadian-born parent is now a Canadian citizen. Yes, your mother lost her Canadian citizenship when she became a U.S. citizen, but the 2009 changes to the Citizenship Act made her a citizen once again (or would have done so if she were living). They also made you a citizen retroactive to your birth, though if you have any American-born children, they did not become Canadian citizens along with you.

In summary, you are one of the people who woke up Canadian on April 17, 2009: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDeDQpIQFD0

 

[Maggie65]

Virtually every person with a Canadian-born parent is now a Canadian citizen. Yes, your mother lost her Canadian citizenship when she became a U.S. citizen, but the 2009 changes to the Citizenship Act made her a citizen once again (or would have done so if she were living). They also made you a citizen retroactive to your birth, though if you have any American-born children, they did not become Canadian citizens along with you.

In summary, you are one of the people who woke up Canadian on April 17, 2009

Sorry, not to belabor the point, but the citizenship application itself says that I need to provide proof that my mother was a Canadian citizen at the time of my birth. I don't see how I can do that. In fact yesterday I confirmed via email with the US office of naturalization - where my mother's signed 1963 US naturalization certificate is held - I was born in '65 - that all US citizens were required to renounce any/all former citizenship.

I spoke with a certain law firm about this and they seemed to feel that I should apply anyway, and that the renunciation was "just a formality", and somehow "wot count". Mind you, this firm seemed very unprofessional, and wanted huge bucks up front from me. I suspect they were just telling me what I wanted to hear in order to gain my business.

Can anyone tell me what they think? How does one prove that one's mother was a Canadian citizen at the time of their birth when the US naturalization people are saying as of yesterday that she would have been required to renounced her Cdn citizenship? What in the 2009 law says otherwise?

Thank you very much. Really - the people on here have been amazing in offering help.

 

[scylla]

There was a period of time where you had to renounce your original citizenship to obtain US citizenship. I don't know the dates.

If your mother did in fact formally renounce her Canadian citizenship before you were born - then you are out of luck in obtaining citizenship automatically through her. Before you give up on this route, you could try to apply for proof of citizenship for your mother. This should tell you if she renounced or not. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/proof.asp

If you can't get citizenship from your mother - you would need to apply to immigrate to Canada through the regular means (e.g. skilled worker) and first obtain permanent residency before qualifying for citizenship. I believe you said you were 51. If that's the case, your age will make it very difficult for you to qualify to immigrate (Canada has a points based system that gives preference to younger workers). To be successful in immigrating, you'd most likely need to secure a permanent job offer first in a skilled profession that's accompanied by an approved LMIA (something your employer has to obtain).

 

[Maggie65]

Thank you so much, Scylla. It's so odd, the renunciation thing. I found amongst my mother's papers last night a booklet about the US citizenship test which certainly contained the oath she presumably had to agree to in some fashion, which included renouncing any former citizenship.

May I ask one more question? Why would an immigration attorney tell me that this likely was "just a formality" and "likely wouldn't have been followed up on", or something to that effect? He claimed that in 99% of the cases he has handled, that this somehow doesn't matter to the Canadian government - that it's not that big a deal. If the US laws in 1959 said you had to renounce, and that was the year she married an American - though for some reason her naturalization paperwork didn't happen until 1963 - isn't that proof enough that she would have renounced? Would the Canadian government in any way, shape or form consider it 'just a formality' and not a big enough deal to bar me from being considered a Canadian citizen?

I know I can apply for proof of citizenship, but one of the questions in the application as noted asks me to provide proof my parent was a Cdn citizen when she gave birth to me. All I have is her Cdn birth certificate, and my US one. They will determine that she married an American prior to my birth. I'm just wondering if I should still bother to apply - if there's any hope here at all - if the attorney was completely lying or just an incompetent sleeze.

Thank you again so much. Honestly feeling pretty down about this ...

 

[scylla]

May I ask one more question? Why would an immigration attorney tell me that this likely was "just a formality" and "likely wouldn't have been followed up on", or something to that effect? He claimed that in 99% of the cases he has handled, that this somehow doesn't matter to the Canadian government - that it's not that big a deal. If the US laws in 1959 said you had to renounce, and that was the year she married an American - though for some reason her naturalization paperwork didn't happen until 1963 - isn't that proof enough that she would have renounced? Would the Canadian government in any way, shape or form consider it 'just a formality' and not a big enough deal to bar me from being considered a Canadian citizen?

I don't know the answers to these questions. You would have to find out what US citizenship laws were at the time your mother became American and whether a formal renounce was required. Again, you could always apply for proof of citizenship for your mother and see what happens.