More Criminally Inadmissible Related Questions

[justfromerica]

Hi there,

I've posted here a few times previously, regarding the same topic, and I just had another question I wanted to swing by you guys.

Background: I am a Canadian citizen living in the US on a green card, my wife is a US citizen. Same-sex marriage.

My wife got a DUI back in 2010, and her probation ended on August 2nd, 2011, which will be 5 years this August, which will allow her to apply for Rehabilitation concurrently with her outland Permanent Residency Application.

My wife has been to Canada three times, twice with me on vacations, and once to initially meet me. She has never experienced any issues at the border, even though because of her DUI she would be considered Criminally Inadmissible.

The kicker is that her DUI was plead down to "Youthful Offender" which in Alabama, in essentially the same as having it expunged.

However, I've been told by many people on here, and a few lawyers, because she was technically not a youth at 18, she would still have to apply for Rehabilitation.

BUT I just want to the police department in which she received the charges and they printed out a declaration that said she has no police record or active/inactive warrants with the police department.

So... does this mean not even elected official at the police department can see that DUI? Does the word "DUI" not even technically exist anymore if she got plead down to Youthful Offender?

I'm just so confused because nobody can give me a straight answer and I want to just file it all just to be safe but Rehabilitation with create a longer wait and cost more money so if I apply and then we find out we didn't need to, I'll be really frustrated.

I'm hoping someone here has a similar experience... I'm in the midst of doing both an American and Canadian paperwork as I need to renew my GC while we wait for the Canadian package to eventually process.

 

[Ponga]

Re: More Criminal Inadmissible Related Questions

Have you tried to apply for rehabilitation and selecting the `information only' option?
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/rehabil.asp

If less than five years has passed, you can fill out the form and check “For Information Only.” An officer will decide if you can get special permission to come to Canada temporarily.

Also, take a look at this:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/enf/enf02-eng.pdf

[section 3.2, top of page 9]
Note: The Young Offenders Act was repealed in 2003. The Youth Criminal Justice Act is now in force and may be found at
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/Y-1.5/index.html

Officers should never speculate on the disposition of an inadmissibility report.

And, this:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/enf/enf01-eng.pdf

Exception

Persons who, after the prescribed period, have satisfied the Minister of C&I of their rehabilitation; or, persons who are members of a prescribed class that is deemed to have been rehabilitated or have been granted a record suspension that has not ceased to have effect or been revoked under the Criminal Records Act
or where there has been a final determination of acquittal are excepted (A36(3)(b),(c)).

Inadmissibility may not be based on an offence designated as a contravention under the Contraventions Act or an offence under the
Young Offenders Act (A36(3)(e)).


I don't know if any of that helps, but...I hope it does.

Good luck!

 

[justfromerica]

Hi,

Thank you for the information.

No I haven't tried sending off the Rehabilitation Application for Information Only. I am still putting everything together and unfortunately have to get my American application sent off first.

It says an officer would allow you to enter the country "temporarily" but I'm not sure how that would work in our situation as we would like to fully move up and stay after our out-land and Rehabilitation have both been accepted. We have technically been up there "temporarily" before without needing any proof of Rehabilitation, which is part of the confusion for me. I read that initial paragraph, but there are still some grey areas in our case... and these are things even a lawyer seems wishy-washy on, which is why I feel stumped.

(The second link went to a dead page)

If inadmissibility cannot be based on something that falls under the Youthful Offenders Act, then technically she would not be inadmissible, HOWEVER, she was not a Youth (at 18) when the crime was committed. Also, I'm not posiitive on the differences between Canadian and American Youthful Offenders.

It's just weird to me because she's been to Canada so many times without issue, and even the police department that charged her with the offence can't see her criminal record.

If I were to submit the rehabilitation, but it turns out that it wasn't necessary, would they just credit me the fee and return the paperwork? I of course want to disclose everything, but if all we need is the out-land application afterall, that would save us SO much time and money.

 

[CDNPR2014]

temporarily means visitor, worker or student. so if she plans to be there while her application is processing, she is there temporarily. technically doesn't she have to apply for rehabilitation before being approved permanently? remember, she can not MOVE or LIVE in canada until she is approved to do so. until that point, she is only a visitor and needs to remember to use that language at the border or else you will run into more problems. only when she is approved as pr will she have "permanent" status. you as the canadian citizen are a citizen and have permanent status already and can move there anytime you want without issue. your status' are not the same.

I think getting the info only request will answer your questions. if they decide she doesn't need rehabilitation, then you can move on with your app quicker. considering it was prior to age 18, the police department doesnt have a record, and she hasn't had problems crossing the border, one would think it's not going to be an issue. i can't see how you would be able to get a straight answer from anyone other than the CIC officer who reviews the info request.

another option is to get an FBI record to see what comes up there.

 

[Ponga]

(The second link went to a dead page)


If I were to submit the rehabilitation, but it turns out that it wasn't necessary, would they just credit me the fee and return the paperwork? I of course want to disclose everything, but if all we need is the out-land application afterall, that would save us SO much time and money.

Try this one:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/y-1.5/

I seem to recall that there is no fee for an Info Only request.

 

[Aquakitty]

What do you mean by "American application"?

Get her to get an FBI check through a channeler, it costs about $40 USD, to see what is on it. She will have it in a couple days.

I don't know if that's the be-all end-all though, as she'd still have to reveal the incident in the application.

 

[Ponga]

What do you mean by "American application"?

Get her to get an FBI check through a channeler, it costs about $40 USD, to see what is on it. She will have it in a couple days.

I don't know if that's the be-all end-all though, as she'd still have to reveal the incident in the application.

The OP is also applying to renew her Green Card.

 

[justfromerica]

temporarily means visitor, worker or student. so if she plans to be there while her application is processing, she is there temporarily. technically doesn't she have to apply for rehabilitation before being approved permanently? remember, she can not MOVE or LIVE in canada until she is approved to do so. until that point, she is only a visitor and needs to remember to use that language at the border or else you will run into more problems. only when she is approved as pr will she have "permanent" status. you as the canadian citizen are a citizen and have permanent status already and can move there anytime you want without issue. your status' are not the same.

I think getting the info only request will answer your questions. if they decide she doesn't need rehabilitation, then you can move on with your app quicker. considering it was prior to age 18, the police department doesnt have a record, and she hasn't had problems crossing the border, one would think it's not going to be an issue. i can't see how you would be able to get a straight answer from anyone other than the CIC officer who reviews the info request.

another option is to get an FBI record to see what comes up there.

Hi,

We will be staying in the US while we do the application as outland because we are both legally able to work here and the processing times are quicker. We've visited previously but probably will not be going up there until approved, just for financial reasons we can't really afford another trip + all the immigration fees. We literally just got back from 2 weeks in Canada.

To clarify, she was 18 at the time of her arrest, and I believe "Youthful Offender" in both countries is ages 12-17? I'm not sure why it got plead down to Youthful Offender, I think it was kind of a courtesy as it was her first offense, and she had JUST turned 18 at the time. Alabama doesn't expunge records either so Youthful Offender is similar to having it expunged.

 

[justfromerica]

Try this one:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/y-1.5/

I seem to recall that there is no fee for an Info Only request.

Thank you!

So basically I could gather the information needed for JUST the Rehabilitation application, and JUST send that off with "For Information Only" checked off and wait for a response before sending off the Permanent Residency application (with if necessary) the Rehabilitation application?

Do they generally respond quickly if it's just for information?

I thought about doing the FBI check just to see but I know it takes a while to get and then it expires pretty fast so I was holding off on that, because I know I'd have to disclose regardless on if it showed up or not.

 

[justfromerica]

The OP is also applying to renew her Green Card.

Correct. I am on a two year conditional Green Card at the moment, I'm about to renew it here in the next month so we can remain in the same country together.

Only a few days? I'll have to check it out. I swear someone said you couldn't use a channeler or is that only for the FBI check that needs to be submitted with the application, not just to have for your own files?

 

[Ponga]

Correct. I am on a two year conditional Green Card at the moment, I'm about to renew it here in the next month so we can remain in the same country together.

Only a few days? I'll have to check it out. I swear someone said you couldn't use a channeler or is that only for the FBI check that needs to be submitted with the application, not just to have for your own files?

You cannot use the Channeler's letter for your PR application, but you can certainly use them for personal use to simply `see' your FBI IHSR.

 

[Ponga]

No matter what, she will still need to disclose this in her application, because she was originally charged with DUI. The question is how CIC will see the `conviction' and reduced charge after the fact.

 

[justfromerica]

No matter what, she will still need to disclose this in her application, because she was originally charged with DUI. The question is how CIC will see the `conviction' and reduced charge after the fact.

Gotcha. So do I prepare the Rehabilitation as normal, send it off for "information only" and then wait x amount of time to hear back?

Then if they said I do need it, will they simply keep that application, then have me send off the PR application? Or would they just want me send both all together not counting the one I sent just to get information from the CIC?