Mish Mosh

[BDub]

I have a few questions an I am hoping someone on here can help me out. I am currently working in a Managerial position, my WP ends in July (I do not want to continue working for the same company so there's no chance for extending it and I have yet to find another employer that wants to apply for an LMO for me) I am about to start the CEC process and I need to know a few things: 1. Can I apply for a visitor visa (before WP ends) and stay in Canada while it processes? implied status as a visitor? 2. If visitor visa is accepted can I travel back home if need be? I am from the US 3. I would like to see the original documents I used to enter Canada 3 years ago (I need dates and times from residents/schools/ect). I could get the info again but it was darn hard to get the 1st time and now that I am 1000's of miles away it will be even more difficult. IDEAS? Thx

 

[rjessome]

I have a few questions an I am hoping someone on here can help me out. I am currently working in a Managerial position, my WP ends in July (I do not want to continue working for the same company so there's no chance for extending it and I have yet to find another employer that wants to apply for an LMO for me) I am about to start the CEC process and I need to know a few things: 1. Can I apply for a visitor visa (before WP ends) and stay in Canada while it processes? implied status as a visitor? 2. If visitor visa is accepted can I travel back home if need be? I am from the US 3. I would like to see the original documents I used to enter Canada 3 years ago (I need dates and times from residents/schools/ect). I could get the info again but it was darn hard to get the 1st time and now that I am 1000's of miles away it will be even more difficult. IDEAS? Thx

1. Yes
2. As soon as you leave Canada the visitor status is voided. When you try to enter again at the POE, it's a new visitor application.

 

[the fly]

1. Yes
2. As soon as you leave Canada the visitor status is voided. When you try to enter again at the POE, it's a new visitor application.

from my experience the visitor status is not voided when you leave, as I was in this situation last year. you can transfer to visitor status while in Canada (do it online-it's easiest), you will be issued your new documentation and that should show a date on which the visitor status expires. If you then go back into the US and return to Canada before this date they will admit you back into Canada on the basis of your exisiting visitor permit. i.e they won't issue another one with a new expiry date. i was leaving Canada anyway before my expiry date so i didn't need any longer, maybe thats why they did that, i guess it's up to the border officer to make the call as he sees it.

 

[PMM]

Hi

from my experience the visitor status is not voided when you leave, as I was in this situation last year. you can transfer to visitor status while in Canada (do it online-it's easiest), you will be issued your new documentation and that should show a date on which the visitor status expires. If you then go back into the US and return to Canada before this date they will admit you back into Canada on the basis of your exisiting visitor permit. i.e they won't issue another one with a new expiry date. i was leaving Canada anyway before my expiry date so i didn't need any longer, maybe thats why they did that, i guess it's up to the border officer to make the call as he sees it.

You should rethink your advice, once you leave Canada your visitor status expires. Work permits and Study permits don't, but they don't guarantee re-admission. Read the note on the bottom of work permit.

 

[the fly]

Hi

You should rethink your advice, once you leave Canada your visitor status expires. Work permits and Study permits don't, but they don't guarantee re-admission. Read the note on the bottom of work permit.

It's not advice, it's like i said - from my experience this is what happened. In my case the previously issued visitor visa remained valid. This may run contrary to what you say are the rules but this actually happened. If you read my post fully you will note that I didn't need any longer past the expiry date so, also like I said, perhaps that is why the border officer didn't issue me a new visitor status. I hate to repeat myself but obviously I didn't make it clear enough.

 

[rjessome]

from my experience the visitor status is not voided when you leave, as I was in this situation last year. you can transfer to visitor status while in Canada (do it online-it's easiest), you will be issued your new documentation and that should show a date on which the visitor status expires. If you then go back into the US and return to Canada before this date they will admit you back into Canada on the basis of your exisiting visitor permit. i.e they won't issue another one with a new expiry date. i was leaving Canada anyway before my expiry date so i didn't need any longer, maybe thats why they did that, i guess it's up to the border officer to make the call as he sees it.

What they actually did is just let you back in as a visitor with new visitor status. CBSA can't change the Act and the Regs. When you left Canada, the former visitor status is finished and when they let you back in, giving you new visitor status. If you are from the US or another visa exempt country, they probably didn't give you a new visitor record because a) you didn't ask for one and b) if you told them you were leaving Canada at a certain date within 6 months and they believed you and c) CBSA often doesn't issue visitor records to visa exempt travellers coming from the US (or even stamp the passport). Basically, they didn't think you were a threat to overstay so while you think it happened one way, I can assure you it happened as I described. If you had tried to extend that visitor record later, having left and re-entered, CIC would have ignored the previous visitor record and started your status from the date you re-entered (as you must disclose this information).

I can understand why you thought it happened differently. However, PMM is right.

 

[the fly]

What they actually did is just let you back in as a visitor with new visitor status. CBSA can't change the Act and the Regs. When you left Canada, the former visitor status is finished and when they let you back in, giving you new visitor status. If you are from the US or another visa exempt country, they probably didn't give you a new visitor record because a) you didn't ask for one and b) if you told them you were leaving Canada at a certain date within 6 months and they believed you and c) CBSA often doesn't issue visitor records to visa exempt travellers coming from the US (or even stamp the passport). Basically, they didn't think you were a threat to overstay so while you think it happened one way, I can assure you it happened as I described. If you had tried to extend that visitor record later, having left and re-entered, CIC would have ignored the previous visitor record and started your status from the date you re-entered (as you must disclose this information).

I can understand why you thought it happened differently. However, PMM is right.

I hear what you're saying and appreciate your input, im just relaying what happened in my particular circumstance. But with respect it doesn't fully make sense what you're saying - that I was admitted with new visitor status but without a new visitor record, i.e. there was no new 6 month period. It seems to me I was re-admitted to Canada but still had to leave by the date on the original visitor record. so i was there legally on the basis of the old visitor record, was I not? if i had a new status surely i would have a new 6 month period? all of this is purely academic but I am curious as to understand your logic.

 

[job_seeker]

If you exited only to the US then you retained the original conditions of your initial arrival.

I hear what you're saying and appreciate your input, im just relaying what happened in my particular circumstance. But with respect it doesn't fully make sense what you're saying - that I was admitted with new visitor status but without a new visitor record, i.e. there was no new 6 month period. It seems to me I was re-admitted to Canada but still had to leave by the date on the original visitor record. so i was there legally on the basis of the old visitor record, was I not? if i had a new status surely i would have a new 6 month period? all of this is purely academic but I am curious as to understand your logic.

 

[rjessome]

If you exited only to the US then you retained the original conditions of your initial arrival.

Not for visitors.

I hear what you're saying and appreciate your input, im just relaying what happened in my particular circumstance. But with respect it doesn't fully make sense what you're saying - that I was admitted with new visitor status but without a new visitor record, i.e. there was no new 6 month period. It seems to me I was re-admitted to Canada but still had to leave by the date on the original visitor record. so i was there legally on the basis of the old visitor record, was I not? if i had a new status surely i would have a new 6 month period? all of this is purely academic but I am curious as to understand your logic.

Hey, it's not my logic, it's CIC's and CBSA's. It's also the law. As soon as ANY visitor leaves Canada, their visitor status ends. It's that simple. When they re-enter (if allowed), they are given new status as a visitor starting from the date of re-entry. The default period a visitor is allowed to stay in Canada is 6 months. When you re-entered, you stated that the CBSA officer didn't give you a new visitor record and I'm assuming they didn't stamp your passport and handwrite a date beneath the stamp. That being the case, as confusing as it may be, your status is defaulted to 6 months from the date you re-entered because they didn't limit it otherwise. If they had stamped your passport and handwritten a date underneath the stamp, you would have been allowed to stay until that date.

So even though you didn't know it, you were allowed to stay in Canada for 6 months from the date you re-entered as a visitor. Clear as mud? You know, it could be that you got a rookie CBSA officer who didn't fully understand what they were doing. They may have "thought" they were letting you back in until the date of your visitor records but unless they indicated otherwise by the methods described above, it would be unenforceable.

 

[job_seeker]

I exited to the US on a single entry visa, then came back. No stamp made on my passport when I came back and I was allowed re-entry. I am not from a country with visa waiver.

Not for visitors.

Hey, it's not my logic, it's CIC's and CBSA's. It's also the law. As soon as ANY visitor leaves Canada, their visitor status ends. It's that simple. When they re-enter (if allowed), they are given new status as a visitor starting from the date of re-entry. The default period a visitor is allowed to stay in Canada is 6 months. When you re-entered, you stated that the CBSA officer didn't give you a new visitor record and I'm assuming they didn't stamp your passport and handwrite a date beneath the stamp. That being the case, as confusing as it may be, your status is defaulted to 6 months from the date you re-entered because they didn't limit it otherwise. If they had stamped your passport and handwritten a date underneath the stamp, you would have been allowed to stay until that date.

So even though you didn't know it, you were allowed to stay in Canada for 6 months from the date you re-entered as a visitor. Clear as mud? You know, it could be that you got a rookie CBSA officer who didn't fully understand what they were doing. They may have "thought" they were letting you back in until the date of your visitor records but unless they indicated otherwise by the methods described above, it would be unenforceable.

 

[the fly]

Not for visitors.

Hey, it's not my logic, it's CIC's and CBSA's. It's also the law. As soon as ANY visitor leaves Canada, their visitor status ends. It's that simple. When they re-enter (if allowed), they are given new status as a visitor starting from the date of re-entry. The default period a visitor is allowed to stay in Canada is 6 months. When you re-entered, you stated that the CBSA officer didn't give you a new visitor record and I'm assuming they didn't stamp your passport and handwrite a date beneath the stamp. That being the case, as confusing as it may be, your status is defaulted to 6 months from the date you re-entered because they didn't limit it otherwise. If they had stamped your passport and handwritten a date underneath the stamp, you would have been allowed to stay until that date.

So even though you didn't know it, you were allowed to stay in Canada for 6 months from the date you re-entered as a visitor. Clear as mud? You know, it could be that you got a rookie CBSA officer who didn't fully understand what they were doing. They may have "thought" they were letting you back in until the date of your visitor records but unless they indicated otherwise by the methods described above, it would be unenforceable.

ok, now I understand what you're saying. Hypothetical situation then. Im in Canada, it's past the expiry date on the original visitor record and I don't have a new one to show my new status. I'm pulled over by the cops. they see I'm not a citizen or resident and ask for proof of my stay in Canada. All I have is the original visitor record with the expired date. And I tell them 'well, actually I re-entered Canada and should have been given another 6 months from that date'. Do you think the RCMP or local PD would buy that? I know I wouldn't if I was a cop.

 

[the fly]

If you exited only to the US then you retained the original conditions of your initial arrival.

I think this is the relevant explanation to RDub's situation that started this thread. If he transfers from worker to visitor status he will maintain his temporary resident status under R183(6). which means when he leaves Canada and re-enters he will re-enter under the original conditions and whatever expiry date is on the visitor record will be the one he needs to go by. Correct?

 

[rjessome]

I exited to the US on a single entry visa, then came back. No stamp made on my passport when I came back and I was allowed re-entry. I am not from a country with visa waiver.

Was your status at the time you left Canada a visitor? And your single entry visa had already been used and was expired? Hey, I'm not saying CBSA doesn't get it wrong sometimes. Glad it worked out for you.

ok, now I understand what you're saying. Hypothetical situation then. Im in Canada, it's past the expiry date on the original visitor record and I don't have a new one to show my new status. I'm pulled over by the cops. they see I'm not a citizen or resident and ask for proof of my stay in Canada. All I have is the original visitor record with the expired date. And I tell them 'well, actually I re-entered Canada and should have been given another 6 months from that date'. Do you think the RCMP or local PD would buy that? I know I wouldn't if I was a cop.

It doesn't matter if they buy it or not. They are required to follow the Act and Regs pertaining to immigration as well. Now that situation might cause a person some hassle and some phone calls between the police and CBSA but the law remains the same. It wouldn't be the first time an American was pulled over by the police and didn't have a stamp in their passport or a visitor record. I would be more worried about why the person pulled over in case it was for an offence that would make them inadmissible.

I think this is the relevant explanation to RDub's situation that started this thread. If he transfers from worker to visitor status he will maintain his temporary resident status under R183(6). which means when he leaves Canada and re-enters he will re-enter under the original conditions and whatever expiry date is on the visitor record will be the one he needs to go by. Correct?

No, that only applies to people who have not left Canada. The appropriate section is 183(4)(a):

(4) The period authorized for a temporary resident's stay ends on the earliest of

(a) the day on which the temporary resident leaves Canada without obtaining prior authorization to re-enter Canada;

Getting a visitor permit before leaving Canada does NOT authorize re-entry. The only thing that authorizes re-entry are visas or, in the case of citizens from visa exempt countries, decisions of the CBSA officer at the POE. For a visitor, their status ends as soon as they leave Canada. If they have a valid visa or, for those from visa exempt countries, CBSA lets them back in then their visitor status starts from day 1 either defaulting to 6 months or as limited by the CBSA officer.

 

[the fly]

It doesn't matter if they buy it or not. They are required to follow the Act and Regs pertaining to immigration as well. Now that situation might cause a person some hassle and some phone calls between the police and CBSA but the law remains the same. It wouldn't be the first time an American was pulled over by the police and didn't have a stamp in their passport or a visitor record. I would be more worried about why the person pulled over in case it was for an offence that would make them inadmissible.

personally I wouldn't be comfortable without some form of documentation for my stay in a foreign country. otherwise, you are exposed to question marks over the validity of your stay and, like you say, hassle - even if right is on your side. I'm not American btw. appreciate the input.