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Minister's Delegate - US/CAN Border

BOYX

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May 5, 2017
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Hi members of the forum,

I was wondering if the people who have gone through the US/CAN border while lacking the RO could write a bit on their experience i.e what happened, what questions did the ask, what did they say, how long did it take etc.

I would really appreciate to have some light shed on this process.

Thanks in advance :D
 

ttrajan

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You may be reported if you don,t meet RO. If not reported then stay in Canada up to meeting RO and apply for PR card renewal.
 
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dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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This is not a response to the initial query, as I have not had any personal experience being interviewed about compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. Relative to that, however, there is quite a lot of relevant information available in the official IAD decisions which are published and available at the CanII website (which I have linked many, many times in other discussions), where accounts of actual cases are often included in the decision. Many of those cases not only involve PRs who did not have a valid PR card, but also some who still had a valid PR card but who were questioned about PR RO compliance and Reported, including some who were still within the first five years since landing who had a PR card valid for more than another year. (Remember, if the PR is outside Canada for 1095 or more days within the first five years, as of that 1095th day the PR is in breach of the PR RO, even if it is nearly another two years to the fifth anniversary of landing; and otherwise, if a PR has not been in Canada within the previous three years, that is automatically and obviously a breach of the PR RO, unless one of the exceptions, like accompanying a citizen spouse, applies.)

Researching the IAD decisions for these cases can be tedious and time consuming, wading through lots of stuff which is not relevant to find what is relevant, and perhaps even difficult in general (I have been reading and researching case law for nearly four decades, including Canadian immigration law for nearly a decade, so it is old-hat for me and I cannot discern how difficult it might be for others to navigate such resources).



Yeah but how does the whole thing work? Do you know you're being reported at the border?
In forums like this there has been a tendency to use the term "Report" casually rather than, or without distinguishing it from, the formal 44(1) Report for inadmissibility.

In some instances a Secondary examination involving questions about PR RO compliance will result in the PR being issued the formal 44(1) Report for inadmissibility, in which case the PR will be delivered a written copy of that Report. This is usually, if not almost always, followed by the Minister's Delegate's review, while the PR is still in the PoE, and if the Minister's Delegate finds the report to be valid in law, the Minister's Delegate then considers whether the PR has presented sufficient H&C reasons for retaining PR status. If not, the PR is then delivered a Removal or Departure Order (different names for same thing). So, the PR is informed and given copies of both.

The Minister's Delegate is typically just another CBSA immigration officer, oft times the first officer's superior. Sometimes, though, the Minister's Delegate is contacted by telephone and the interview to review the Report is done by telephone.

After all that has been completed and copies of the Report and Order delivered to the PR, the PR is still allowed to enter Canada.

However, for the CBSA officer to issue the 44(1) Report, the officer must conclude that the PR is in breach of the PR RO. Sometimes the examination does not reveal sufficient information for the officer to make a determination. In such cases, the PR will be allowed to enter Canada, and the examining officer makes a referral to IRCC, alerting IRCC of potential PR RO issues, and the matter then would be for a local IRCC office to handle. The PR may or may NOT be informed that the officer is making such a referral to IRCC.

In any event, in the past it appears the latter was more common, and many have referred to this procedure as being "reported," in the sense that the CBSA border officer has reported the issue to IRCC.

Additionally, the examining officer may merely make notes to FOSS indicating concerns and briefly reporting the transaction, which would typically include the officer memorializing pertinent statements made by the PR and any cautions or admonishments given the PR. The notes to FOSS may not lead to any further action but could factor into any subsequent interaction with the PR, such as the next time the PR is examined at a PoE, or in assessing an application made by the PR (ranging from an application for a renewed PR card to an application for citizenship, or an application to sponsor a family member). Thus, for example, if the PR later applies for a new PRC, IRCC is likely to review and consider such FOSS entries in the course of evaluating the PR and that application.

I do not know to what extent a PIL officer can or will add notes to the traveler's FOSS, but if this happens it is minimal. Generally it would be the officer in a Secondary examination who makes notes to FOSS (or issues a Report). My sense is that there will almost always be at least a record made in FOSS for any immigration examination in Secondary (customs matters are separate). That is, if the PR is referred to Secondary for an immigration interview or examination, the PR can probably expect that at the very least there will be a FOSS entry into the PR's records memorializing that interview. And again, such entries will likely be reviewed and considered in any later interactions with IRCC, and could also be considered by border officers when the PR returns to Canada in the future.


As for the examination itself:

As for the examination itself, the questions can vary considerably. CBSA officers have wide, wide discretion in how they conduct these interviews or examinations. It is my impression that it is almost always best to cooperate and be forthcoming in responding to questions. Since a PR is entitled to enter Canada, however, there is some limit to how much or how long the officer can push the PR for information, before the officer must allow the PR to enter Canada and go on his or her way. Given the scope of border officers' authority and discretion, and how steep the downside is if a PR in breach of the PR RO invites a negative attitude, it is seems obvious that being cooperative is the best way to go. I would strongly suggest consulting with an experienced, reputable immigration lawyer before contemplating standing on one's right to enter Canada and declining to be fully responsive to questions about PR RO compliance at the PoE.

It is absolutely necessary to be honest. The temptation to fudge should be resisted strenuously. Honesty is simply the best bet, simply what works best most often. This is true despite how often one sees some getting away with this or that. Many more do not get away with it. There is little a PR can do which will sabotage things worse than giving an impression he or she is lying, or being evasive.

Again, the scope of possible questions is huge. But obviously, there can be questions about where one has traveled, when, why; where one works, has worked; where one has lived, been living, lived in the past; where one's spouse or other family members live, have lived, or where one's children go to school; about what activities one engages in, what church or mosque or temple or such one attends; where one's doctor is located; where do you shop for groceries in Canada; and much much more. However, the questions may be short and simple.

These interviews vary almost as much as the number of persons interviewed.
 
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BOYX

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May 5, 2017
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Toronto, ON
This is not a response to the initial query, as I have not had any personal experience being interviewed about compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. Relative to that, however, there is quite a lot of relevant information available in the official IAD decisions which are published and available at the CanII website (which I have linked many, many times in other discussions), where accounts of actual cases are often included in the decision. Many of those cases not only involve PRs who did not have a valid PR card, but also some who still had a valid PR card but who were questioned about PR RO compliance and Reported, including some who were still within the first five years since landing who had a PR card valid for more than another year. (Remember, if the PR is outside Canada for 1095 or more days within the first five years, as of that 1095th day the PR is in breach of the PR RO, even if it is nearly another two years to the fifth anniversary of landing; and otherwise, if a PR has not been in Canada within the previous three years, that is automatically and obviously a breach of the PR RO, unless one of the exceptions, like accompanying a citizen spouse, applies.)

Researching the IAD decisions for these cases can be tedious and time consuming, wading through lots of stuff which is not relevant to find what is relevant, and perhaps even difficult in general (I have been reading and researching case law for nearly four decades, including Canadian immigration law for nearly a decade, so it is old-hat for me and I cannot discern how difficult it might be for others to navigate such resources).





In forums like this there has been a tendency to use the term "Report" casually rather than, or without distinguishing it from, the formal 44(1) Report for inadmissibility.

In some instances a Secondary examination involving questions about PR RO compliance will result in the PR being issued the formal 44(1) Report for inadmissibility, in which case the PR will be delivered a written copy of that Report. This is usually, if not almost always, followed by the Minister's Delegate's review, while the PR is still in the PoE, and if the Minister's Delegate finds the report to be valid in law, the Minister's Delegate then considers whether the PR has presented sufficient H&C reasons for retaining PR status. If not, the PR is then delivered a Removal or Departure Order (different names for same thing). So, the PR is informed and given copies of both.

The Minister's Delegate is typically just another CBSA immigration officer, oft times the first officer's superior. Sometimes, though, the Minister's Delegate is contacted by telephone and the interview to review the Report is done by telephone.

After all that has been completed and copies of the Report and Order delivered to the PR, the PR is still allowed to enter Canada.

However, for the CBSA officer to issue the 44(1) Report, the officer must conclude that the PR is in breach of the PR RO. Sometimes the examination does not reveal sufficient information for the officer to make a determination. In such cases, the PR will be allowed to enter Canada, and the examining officer makes a referral to IRCC, alerting IRCC of potential PR RO issues, and the matter then would be for a local IRCC office to handle. The PR may or may NOT be informed that the officer is making such a referral to IRCC.

In any event, in the past it appears the latter was more common, and many have referred to this procedure as being "reported," in the sense that the CBSA border officer has reported the issue to IRCC.

Additionally, the examining officer may merely make notes to FOSS indicating concerns and briefly reporting the transaction, which would typically include the officer memorializing pertinent statements made by the PR and any cautions or admonishments given the PR. The notes to FOSS may not lead to any further action but could factor into any subsequent interaction with the PR, such as the next time the PR is examined at a PoE, or in assessing an application made by the PR (ranging from an application for a renewed PR card to an application for citizenship, or an application to sponsor a family member). Thus, for example, if the PR later applies for a new PRC, IRCC is likely to review and consider such FOSS entries in the course of evaluating the PR and that application.

I do not know to what extent a PIL officer can or will add notes to the traveler's FOSS, but if this happens it is minimal. Generally it would be the officer in a Secondary examination who makes notes to FOSS (or issues a Report). My sense is that there will almost always be at least a record made in FOSS for any immigration examination in Secondary (customs matters are separate). That is, if the PR is referred to Secondary for an immigration interview or examination, the PR can probably expect that at the very least there will be a FOSS entry into the PR's records memorializing that interview. And again, such entries will likely be reviewed and considered in any later interactions with IRCC, and could also be considered by border officers when the PR returns to Canada in the future.


As for the examination itself:

As for the examination itself, the questions can vary considerably. CBSA officers have wide, wide discretion in how they conduct these interviews or examinations. It is my impression that it is almost always best to cooperate and be forthcoming in responding to questions. Since a PR is entitled to enter Canada, however, there is some limit to how much or how long the officer can push the PR for information, before the officer must allow the PR to enter Canada and go on his or her way. Given the scope of border officers' authority and discretion, and how steep the downside is if a PR in breach of the PR RO invites a negative attitude, it is seems obvious that being cooperative is the best way to go. I would strongly suggest consulting with an experienced, reputable immigration lawyer before contemplating standing on one's right to enter Canada and declining to be fully responsive to questions about PR RO compliance at the PoE.

It is absolutely necessary to be honest. The temptation to fudge should be resisted strenuously. Honesty is simply the best bet, simply what works best most often. This is true despite how often one sees some getting away with this or that. Many more do not get away with it. There is little a PR can do which will sabotage things worse than giving an impression he or she is lying, or being evasive.

Again, the scope of possible questions is huge. But obviously, there can be questions about where one has traveled, when, why; where one works, has worked; where one has lived, been living, lived in the past; where one's spouse or other family members live, have lived, or where one's children go to school; about what activities one engages in, what church or mosque or temple or such one attends; where one's doctor is located; where do you shop for groceries in Canada; and much much more. However, the questions may be short and simple.

These interviews vary almost as much as the number of persons interviewed.
Thank you so much for the detailed response! This was exactly what I was looking for :)

You mentioned some official decisions of real cases on some website? Do you mind linking a few to me?

Thanks once again :)
 

dpenabill

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Caveat: no time to proof-read this post. Probably typos and perhaps some errors, but links should work.

You mentioned some official decisions of real cases on some website? Do you mind linking a few to me?

To find the IAD decisions generally, see https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/


Currently I do not have the time to replicate the research (I am past the deadline to submit a manuscript for my day job -- yeah, even though I am an old man, already collecting the puny retirement benefits I have earned, I am mostly on a work-until-I-die retirement program). And yeah, I am working on a Sunday evening. (But, actually, it is stuff I really enjoy doing, reading and writing about the law, albeit law which has nothing to do with either Canadian law nor immigration, and notwithstanding the topic I am currently researching and writing about is incredibly dull.)

I will aim you toward some other topics where I have previously discussed and, I think, linked some of the IAD decisions (time flies and I lose track, so the linked decisions may be in older posts) below.

In the meantime, in order to get much out of the official decisions that demands taking some time to become familiar with many of them. Be cautious about deriving conclusions based on individual statements or even whole paragraphs, since context looms huge, and whole paragraphs can state propositions which are actually being rejected.

So, if you are interested in drilling into the official decisions yourself, I suggest going to CanII and doing some research for yourself. Caveat: this is time consuming and demands a diligent, focused effort.

The search interface for the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, where Immigration Appeal Division (IAD) decisions are published (there are other sites as well, but this is the one I typically use) can be found by following links at the CanII home page, or go to it directly at

https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/

Narrowing search results, in order to limit hits to a manageable number, is somewhat difficult because most of the key terms also populate many, many cases which are not about appeals of a Departure Order issued to PRs at a PoE. So, yes, doing the homework can be tedious and time consuming, wading through lots of decisions which will not offer much of what you are looking for.

On the other hand, narrowing the search terms can result in not capturing some of the more significant decisions.

Moreover, many of these decisions do not overtly state some key elements. For example, not all Departure Orders derive from a 44(1) Report issued at a PoE (indeed, not all 44(1) Reports are issued at a PoE), and many (perhaps most) of the Departure Order cases do not identify the specific circumstances in which the Order was issued, that is whether it arose out of a PoE examination, or an IRCC investigation, or an IRCC action taken following a PR card application or some other interaction with IRCC. It can take quite a bit of studying the various decisions to acquire the capacity to recognize context and glean relevant principles.

Thus, in addition to being tedious and time consuming, the search process can also be quite tricky.

Note for example that it is particularly difficult to limit the search results to Departure Orders issued following a PoE examination. Many (perhaps most) of the decisions in the search results are likely to be about the denial of a PR Travel Document application, since for those PRs who can come to Canada pending the appeal of the PR TD a negative decision will typically include the making of a Departure Order. Most of these should be obvious since they will refer to the decision by a visa officer (or visa official, or such) determining the PR did not meet the PR RO. For me, reading these decisions is relevant, since I am following most aspects of the process for terminating PR status. And you too may find some of these decisions interesting and informative regarding issues related to the making of a Residency Determination and weighing H&C reasons.




Additional reading here in this forum:

Again, I do not have time to replicate the research, and I do not recall in which topics here I have previously linked numerous IAD decisions related to this topic. However, you should be able to peruse relevant topics by taking the link to "find all content by dpenabill" and scrolling through the list for a few pages, looking for topic titles about this or a similar subject. For example, see topics titled:

Entering Canada by land with expired PR card - RO not met
RO not met by the time of entry
POE Question: How Long Have You Been Outside Canada?
PR card Expires before the 730 days required
Email from CIC that PR card renewal needs secondary review
Perminent Resident Application, Entry/exit requests
Staying outside with maintaining 731 days

Again, I am not for sure the above are where I posted links to IAD decisions about this issue in particular, but as I recall I have done this within the past two months or so.

If you peruse those topics, you should notice that much of what I posted above in response to your query I have posted before, in some instances in more depth . . . and, hopefully you can also find those posts where I have discussed and linked specific cases.


Search parameters or terms:

While it will result in way too many hits (over a thousand actually), a search based on ["residency obligation" & "departure order"] will generate results containing a large number of the cases relevant to this discussion . . . albeit most will be PR TD denial appeals.

Similarly, ["residency obligation" & "removal order"] will generate a huge number of results, hundreds overlapping the previous results, but also including more than a thousand in addition.

Select the option to sort by "most recent first" to peruse recent cases. For more in-depth, analytical research stick with sorting "By Relevance." I'd recommend most recent and skipping decisions about PR TD appeals, until you are more acquainted with navigating the results.


Recent examples:

OK, I lied. Well, it is true I do not have time to do the research, but I cannot resist doing some (I am obsessive-complusive about this stuff). So, for example:

Here is a very recent (April 5, 2017 decision) PoE case: http://canlii.ca/t/h3nxb

It is interesting because the review/hearing by the Minister's Delegate did not take place immediately following the issuance of a 44(1) Report at the PoE, but took place by telephone two weeks later.


Another recent (April 4, 2017 decision) see http://canlii.ca/t/h3r8p

This decision does not offer much information, but it is an example of a case where the PRs were issued the Departure Order at the airport (Montreal). As I have noted in many posts, this procedure appears to be the most common, where there is an examination at the PoE, followed by the 44(1) Report, then while still in the PoE, by the Departure Order. (Note, this decision only specifically refers to their being issued the Departure Order at the airport, not detailing the procedure which led to that . . . this is an example which illustrates why I said it can take reading a lot of these decisions, being familiar with the applicable Operational Manuals, in particular ENF 4 POE examinations, ENF 5 Writing 44(1) Reports, and ENF 27 Loss of PR Status, as well as with IRPA itself, including in particular, of course, Sections 28 and 44, and the related regulations.


Another recent decision (March 2017) see http://canlii.ca/t/h3m5z

This case involves PRs issued a Departure Order prior to the 5th year anniversary of the date they became PRs.
They became PRs in December 2009
They were issued Departure Orders in July 2014 at the airport upon arrival from abroad

While this decision does not explicitly state they had valid PR cards at the time of their arrival at the PoE, it is apparent they did. Given the date they became PRs, it is likely their PR cards were valid until January 2015 (or a little later).

So this case probably illustrates PRs being issued a Departure Order (1) notwithstanding presenting valid PR cards at the PoE, which were valid until the next calendar year; and (2) still being within the first five years of landing (fifth year anniversary would have been in December 2014).

This warrants some attention because up until a number of years ago, it appeared that PRs with valid PR cards were at low risk for being examined about PR RO compliance at a PoE, and particularly so for PRs still within the first five years.



But, as much as can be discerned from these cases . . . that depends on being familiar with many, many such cases. These examples derive from barely a month's period of time, so you can readily see that to get a solid grasp of such decisions and what they illuminate, requires reading dozens of such cases going back at least the last couple years.

In any event, there are many, many official decisions to wade through. Different panels give different background information, so to get a broad picture of how these PoE Departure Order cases evolve from the PoE examination, you need to read dozens of those cases in particular.

And, again, it helps to put this information in context if you are also already familiar with the applicable Operational Manuals, in particular ENF 4 POE examinations, ENF 5 Writing 44(1) Reports, and ENF 27 Loss of PR Status, as well as with IRPA itself, including in particular, of course, Sections 28 and 44, and the related regulations.

For the Operation Manuals, see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/index.asp and follow links.
For IRPA Section 44, for example, see http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-2.5/page-10.html#h-25
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Follow-up post because I forgot to highlight that in some of these cases there is specific reference to a formal, written questionnaire, titled "Questionnaire: Determination of Permanent Resident Status." I have not seen a copy of such a questionnaire and do not recall if any of the anecdotal reports in this forum have referenced this.

For example, see http://canlii.ca/t/h3ckj in which reference is made to the questionnaire, and there is a little more than usual reference to specifics in the PoE examination. Note, though, that the reason why the PoE exchange is discussed is that it illustrates the PR's continually changing story.

I previously linked http://canlii.ca/t/h3nxb which is another case where the PR completed such a questionnaire at the PoE. This is the case where the review/hearing, by telephone with the Minister's Delegate, was about two weeks after the PR was issued the 44(1) Report at the PoE. This was a land crossing, via the Windsor Tunnel.

Another case involving a questionnaire is at http://canlii.ca/t/h3chk
This case is interesting in that it indicates the PR was actually held for eight hours at the PoE on the occasion he was issued the Departure Order. While there are many, many more PoE Departure Order cases I have not read, than the number I have (I generally read all such cases decided in the Federal Court, but IAD cases are way too many to keep up with), it warrants noting that that sort of lengthy detention of a PR at the border seems to be very unusual . . . it should be unusual.

Another questionnaire case and also one in which the PR was still within the first five years after landing: http://canlii.ca/t/h1t1z

Another questionnaire case barely past the five year anniversary of landing, and probably still in possession of a valid PR card (but valid for just a bit longer), is http://canlii.ca/t/h2xwr

Another questionnaire case but with multiple family members interviewed at different times (a little difficult to follow the timeline and such) is at http://canlii.ca/t/gxmpd
For one of the family members there is reference to a very long interview, and this PR described a rather confrontational exchange in which the airport border officer repeatedly accused the PR of lying . . . the interview purportedly lasting more than five hours (again, this seems unusual but . . . )

Some of these cases go back many years, but the decisions made just recently (most of these I have linked here being decisions made this year, one or two perhaps late last year). These are a mere sliver of such cases.



Additionally, perhaps I should have made clear that the IAD hearing is essentially de novo, meaning that the PR can testify and introduce evidence, and the IAD panel's decision is based on the evidence submitted in that hearing. The decision is not based on the content of the 44(1) Report itself (although many of the facts developed in the IAD hearing are, of course, the same as what were detailed in the initial Report).

Thus, while the decisions which derive from a PoE 44(1) Report, and typically (but not always) the issuance of a Removal or Departure Order while the PR is still at the PoE, obviously involved a CBSA officer's detailed report, many of these decisions barely reference the details in that report.

For example, in the case at http://canlii.ca/t/h3c98 the only reference to the circumstances in which the Report and Departure Order were issued, is rather brief if not oblique:
"The appellants entered Canada at the international airport in Ottawa on June 29, 2015 and were questioned by an officer about their circumstances. As a result of this interview, it was determined that the appellants had failed to comply with section 28 of the Act and were issued departure orders."


Some additional cases where PRs still within first five years were issued Departure Order at PoE:
-- http://canlii.ca/t/h3zp7
-- http://canlii.ca/t/h3377
-- http://canlii.ca/t/h30q7 (likely a PoE Departure Order but this is not entirely clear)
-- http://canlii.ca/t/h3chp


Again, it is easier to follow what these decisions describe if one is familiar with the applicable Operational Manuals I have previously mentioned; again, see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/index.asp and follow links.

OP 10 – Permanent Residency Status Determination is also a useful Operational Manual
 
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BOYX

Hero Member
May 5, 2017
436
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Toronto, ON
Follow-up post because I forgot to highlight that in some of these cases there is specific reference to a formal, written questionnaire, titled "Questionnaire: Determination of Permanent Resident Status." I have not seen a copy of such a questionnaire and do not recall if any of the anecdotal reports in this forum have referenced this.

For example, see http://canlii.ca/t/h3ckj in which reference is made to the questionnaire, and there is a little more than usual reference to specifics in the PoE examination. Note, though, that the reason why the PoE exchange is discussed is that it illustrates the PR's continually changing story.

I previously linked http://canlii.ca/t/h3nxb which is another case where the PR completed such a questionnaire at the PoE. This is the case where the review/hearing, by telephone with the Minister's Delegate, was about two weeks after the PR was issued the 44(1) Report at the PoE. This was a land crossing, via the Windsor Tunnel.

Another case involving a questionnaire is at http://canlii.ca/t/h3chk
This case is interesting in that it indicates the PR was actually held for eight hours at the PoE on the occasion he was issued the Departure Order. While there are many, many more PoE Departure Order cases I have not read, than the number I have (I generally read all such cases decided in the Federal Court, but IAD cases are way too many to keep up with), it warrants noting that that sort of lengthy detention of a PR at the border seems to be very unusual . . . it should be unusual.

Another questionnaire case and also one in which the PR was still within the first five years after landing: http://canlii.ca/t/h1t1z

Another questionnaire case barely past the five year anniversary of landing, and probably still in possession of a valid PR card (but valid for just a bit longer), is http://canlii.ca/t/h2xwr

Another questionnaire case but with multiple family members interviewed at different times (a little difficult to follow the timeline and such) is at http://canlii.ca/t/gxmpd
For one of the family members there is reference to a very long interview, and this PR described a rather confrontational exchange in which the airport border officer repeatedly accused the PR of lying . . . the interview purportedly lasting more than five hours (again, this seems unusual but . . . )

Some of these cases go back many years, but the decisions made just recently (most of these I have linked here being decisions made this year, one or two perhaps late last year). These are a mere sliver of such cases.



Additionally, perhaps I should have made clear that the IAD hearing is essentially de novo, meaning that the PR can testify and introduce evidence, and the IAD panel's decision is based on the evidence submitted in that hearing. The decision is not based on the content of the 44(1) Report itself (although many of the facts developed in the IAD hearing are, of course, the same as what were detailed in the initial Report).

Thus, while the decisions which derive from a PoE 44(1) Report, and typically (but not always) the issuance of a Removal or Departure Order while the PR is still at the PoE, obviously involved a CBSA officer's detailed report, many of these decisions barely reference the details in that report.

For example, in the case at http://canlii.ca/t/h3c98 the only reference to the circumstances in which the Report and Departure Order were issued, is rather brief if not oblique:
"The appellants entered Canada at the international airport in Ottawa on June 29, 2015 and were questioned by an officer about their circumstances. As a result of this interview, it was determined that the appellants had failed to comply with section 28 of the Act and were issued departure orders."


Some additional cases where PRs still within first five years were issued Departure Order at PoE:
-- http://canlii.ca/t/h3zp7
-- http://canlii.ca/t/h3377
-- http://canlii.ca/t/h30q7 (likely a PoE Departure Order but this is not entirely clear)
-- http://canlii.ca/t/h3chp


Again, it is easier to follow what these decisions describe if one is familiar with the applicable Operational Manuals I have previously mentioned; again, see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/index.asp and follow links.

OP 10 – Permanent Residency Status Determination is also a useful Operational Manual
Thank you so much for all of this information! I cannot state enough how this is exactly what I wanted!

I have been through a few of the cases - albeit briefly - and I find it rather shocking how many people decide it would be right to constantly fluctuate their stories. Also, I previously had the idea that all of this would just be a simple process: the delegate hears what I say, comes to a conclusion, makes the decision and that's that. It is definitely much more complicated than that, as you have shown. All of this is just a first impression as I have not delved much into everything.

I have one question, however, regarding a certain type of case. I was wondering if you know of any particular cases in which an adolescent who has not met their RO along with an expired PR card takes their first opportunity back to Canada. Just to explain further with an example, a student currently living outside of Canada decides to apply to university in Canada. He then comes by land to the PoE where he decides to get a Minister's Delegate. He then gets denied on the grounds of insufficient H&C reasons. Are there any such cases on the CanIII website? I have heard that this is one of the more stronger H&C reasons, therefore I am curious as to why a Minster's Delegate would think otherwise (All being said, this is of course assuming that such a case has ever made it to the appeal stage). I have already tried looking for such a case on the CanIII website, to no avail of course, which led me to wonder if such a case has ever even reached the stage of appeal. I was curious whether you may know something about this?

Thank you once again for this amazing influx of information, and I hope others could benefit equally, or even greater, than I have.
Cheers :D
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
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I have one question, however, regarding a certain type of case. I was wondering if you know of any particular cases in which an adolescent who has not met their RO along with an expired PR card takes their first opportunity back to Canada. Just to explain further with an example, a student currently living outside of Canada decides to apply to university in Canada. He then comes by land to the PoE where he decides to get a Minister's Delegate. He then gets denied on the grounds of insufficient H&C reasons. Are there any such cases on the CanIII website? I have heard that this is one of the more stronger H&C reasons, therefore I am curious as to why a Minster's Delegate would think otherwise (All being said, this is of course assuming that such a case has ever made it to the appeal stage). I have already tried looking for such a case on the CanIII website, to no avail of course, which led me to wonder if such a case has ever even reached the stage of appeal. I was curious whether you may know something about this?
Overall: PR removed from Canada while a minor, then attempting to return to Canada soon after attaining age of majority, appears to be one of the most common successful H&C cases.


Further observations:

It is not easy to search and find particular fact patterns in the IAD decisions.

There are a significant number of IAD decisions regarding PRs removed from Canada while a minor, then applying for a PR Travel Document upon reaching the age of majority or relatively soon thereafter. Most, if not most by a wide margin, appear to be successful. Not all. And there are no guarantees. But yes, a PR removed from Canada as a minor is one of the most readily forecast, good odds of success cases, so long as the PR makes the effort to return to Canada soon after reaching the age of majority . . . with some leeway for completing educational programs in progress prior to reaching the age of majority (albeit, regardless the reason, the longer it is after reaching majority, the lower the odds of a successful H&C case).

Remember, all the IAD decisions are appeals. So we do not get a glimpse into how it goes for those who are not Reported other than through the sporadic, scant anecdotal reports showing up in forums like this. Moreover, we do not see those cases in which a Departure Order was issued and the PR did not appeal . . . so, for example, it is impossible to guess the number of instances in which a young person attempting to return to Canada is issued a Departure Order despite having been removed while a minor.

Caveat/Caution: my impression is that the procedure can be more problematic for PRs who are not yet of majority age. This is a situation in which consulting with a licensed, reputable Canadian immigration LAWYER (not consultant) would be prudent before pursuing return to Canada. We see juveniles denied in same cases as parent PRs are denied. Once a PR TD application is denied, unless the PR wins the appeal (or IRCC otherwise sets the rejection aside), PR status is lost . . . and thus could not be regained when the juvenile/minor later reaches majority age. While I cannot point to PoE Departure Orders reflecting this, my sense is that similar practices apply . . . note, for example, that applications on behalf of a PR between 14 and the age of majority must be signed by parent or guardian in addition to the PR's signature.


"He then comes by land to the PoE where he decides to get a Minister's Delegate."

The PR is not the one who decides this. If the officer conducting the Secondary immigration examination decides to issue a 44(1) Report, it is then that the matter is referred to another officer, the Minister's Delegate, for review . . . which is usually promptly following the first officer's examination but as one of the cases I previously cited illustrates, it can be done later.


Simple process:

My strong impression is that despite the complex wrinkles encountered in the official decisions, that for the vast majority of PRs subject to questioning about their PR Residency Obligation compliance at a PoE, it is typically fairly simple. Those who, in contrast, are perceived to be evasive or deceptive, tend to dig themselves in deeper and deeper, making things more difficult and complicated, undermining their chance of persuading anyone at IRCC that they deserve to keep PR status.

My sense about the questionnaire is that this procedure was probably more broadly implemented following the Conservative government crackdown on fraud beginning in 2009, and that the written questionnaire is used to definitively memorialize the PR's PoE representations. While overt misrepresentation proceedings are not often pursued, as you can see from many of the decisions, IRCC pays heightened attention to omissions, discrepancies, inconsistencies, or other indications of deception, which will seriously erode if not destroy the PR's credibility, with predictable results even though formal misrepresentation charges are not made.