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Mandamus? I’m a June 2018 applicant waiting for the test.

Double_Double

Full Member
Jan 30, 2019
31
6
Hello everyone,

I applied in June of last year. I live in Mississauga. On the ATIP notes, it shows that my file has been transferred to Scarborough due to work overload.

I haven’t written the test yet. Seeing a lot of people I know getting the citizenship in less than a year makes me happy for them but at the same time kind of frustrated with my situation.

I’ve contacted IRCC many times. Contacted the MP office as well. Same generic answer: Wait.

Should I consider a Mandamus application? What do you guys think?


Thank you.
 

Zmaqsood

Champion Member
Sep 10, 2014
1,776
351
123
Milton. ON
Hello everyone,

I applied in June of last year. I live in Mississauga. On the ATIP notes, it shows that my file has been transferred to Scarborough due to work overload.

I haven’t written the test yet. Seeing a lot of people I know getting the citizenship in less than a year makes me happy for them but at the same time kind of frustrated with my situation.

I’ve contacted IRCC many times. Contacted the MP office as well. Same generic answer: Wait.

Should I consider a Mandamus application? What do you guys think?


Thank you.
Its too early for madamus
 
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scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
95,814
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Toronto
Category........
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01-10-2010
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05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Hello everyone,

I applied in June of last year. I live in Mississauga. On the ATIP notes, it shows that my file has been transferred to Scarborough due to work overload.

I haven’t written the test yet. Seeing a lot of people I know getting the citizenship in less than a year makes me happy for them but at the same time kind of frustrated with my situation.

I’ve contacted IRCC many times. Contacted the MP office as well. Same generic answer: Wait.

Should I consider a Mandamus application? What do you guys think?


Thank you.
IMO it's too early for mandamus. Successful mandamus cases seem to be at the 2.5+ year mark.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,432
3,176
Hello everyone,

I applied in June of last year. I live in Mississauga. On the ATIP notes, it shows that my file has been transferred to Scarborough due to work overload.

I haven’t written the test yet. Seeing a lot of people I know getting the citizenship in less than a year makes me happy for them but at the same time kind of frustrated with my situation.

I’ve contacted IRCC many times. Contacted the MP office as well. Same generic answer: Wait.

Should I consider a Mandamus application? What do you guys think?


Thank you.
"Should I consider a Mandamus application?" Short Answer is easy: NO, NOT likely to be a fruitful exercise.

Note: overall, the length of time a grant citizenship application has been pending has little bearing on whether to consider seeking a Writ of Mandamus. It is not so much that it is too soon. The timeline is mostly irrelevant.

Short Explanation: There is ZERO reason to consider a Mandamus application absent the advice and assistance of a competent, reputable lawyer.

The real question, given the circumstances, is whether you should pay for an in-depth consultation with a qualified lawyer.

The answer to that question depends on many other aspects of your case far more than how long the citizenship application has been in process. This is very personal decision, depending on YOUR specific situation, your history, your qualifications, even your current location, among more than a few others (including affordability considerations).

Your situation is akin to many others: you are in WAIT mode. The way to navigate going forward is to focus on WAITING and WATCHING, waiting while watching for notice or other communication from IRCC.

Reminder: IRCC is a bureaucracy. Grant citizenship processing is among the most important, most significant decision-making that IRCC engages in. The government takes its time making such decisions. Moreover, bureaucracy is what bureaucracy does. Especially when there are NO timeline restrictions, not even any formal guidelines. And, the amount of time a grant citizenship application has been in process is NOT much relevant.


Longer Explanation; Generally Mandamus is NOT a remedy for even exceedingly slow processing:

Mandamus is one of those topics which tends to pop up periodically in regards to slow application processing timelines despite the fact that there are NO guidelines, let alone regulatory or statutory restrictions about how long IRCC can take to process grant citizenship applications. Thus, the passage of time itself is NOT a ground for granting mandamus.

There are indications warranting the apprehension that processing timelines for more than a few current and future grant citizenship applications will be particularly slow. In the wake of this, it is easy to forecast some revival of interest in what recourse may be available. Generally, Mandamus is NOT a remedy for even exceedingly slow citizenship application processing.

Again, the amount of time the grant citizenship application has been pending is NOT much relevant. Note, for example, even three years into it, that amount of time is NOT grounds for Mandamus and it is NOT likely even then an application for Mandamus will generate forward action on the application.

In contrast, if there is otherwise an unexcused delay in processing, correspondence to IRCC from a lawyer demanding action is as good a shot, toward getting IRCC to take action, as one can take; such a demand is a necessary prerequisite to an application for a Writ of Mandamus anyway.

Historically such demands from lawyers have had far more success than letters from applicants themselves, even well-crafted demands. My impression is that this is largely for multiple reasons, including:
-- statistically, odds are high that demands made by lawyers are more focused on actually relevant issues and backed by genuine grounds for the demand
-- there is likely some bias at IRCC, perceiving that a demand from a lawyer is more likely to be based on legitimate reasons, so those coming from lawyers may be given more attention and consideration
-- many demands from applicants themselves likely focus on the length of the timeline, which, again, is NOT much relevant
It warrants noting that "historically" in this context refers to a long, long period of time. There have been very few anecdotal reports about actually pursuing mandamus in recent years. Virtually NO accounts of successfully pursuing mandamus in recent years. And scant indication of successful mandamus applications published in the Federal Court decisions for MANY years now. The vast majority of reported experience related to any positive results from pursuing mandamus (and most of this is about demands made by lawyers, as a prerequisite to mandamus, triggering forward movement of the application), dates from more than six years ago when there was a flurry of such demands and even a few dozen actual applications for mandamus filed annually in the wake of the Harper government's draconian OB-407 changes which stalled citizenship application processing for many tens of thousands. At that time routine timelines tended to be nearly two years, and even rather standard, unremarkable non-routinely processed applications taking close to or more than three years, and many RQ'd applications taking three to four years.

While I do not have hard statistics (a decade ago we did, pursuant to an annual report from Citizenship Judges), it is readily clear that applications for Mandamus are RARELY even heard by the Federal Court, and it has been so long since Mandamus was granted in a citizenship case it is difficult to recall the circumstances. The last citizenship application case I can recall, in FC published decisions, which resulted in a Writ of Mandamus actually being issued was in a case where a Citizenship Judge had approved the applicant for a grant of citizenship and CIC (yeah, this was awhile ago, back before the name change) did NOT appeal or grant citizenship, and the FC ordered CIC to proceed with granting citizenship. While there were some extraordinarily lengthy timelines involved in that case, those were NOT relevant to the decision; what was relevant was that a CJ had approved the applicant and CIC failed to timely appeal even though it still had objections to granting citizenship.

The point of that tangent is to emphasize that while Mandamus is an available remedy in extraordinary cases, it is NOT a remedy for an extraordinarily long processing timeline.

And, to be clear, Mandamus is explicitly an "extraordinary" remedy. And that really does mean "extraordinary" . . . as in going far beyond the ordinary degree, and "very unusual." So much so that many, many lawyers are rather inept in regards to pursuing this recourse (in all contexts, not just citizenship); a former judicial clerk once told me that the vast majority of mandamus applications are outright dismissed on procedural grounds, the merits of the application never addressed, due to procedural mistakes made by the lawyers making these applications.

While I may have missed one or two, I have read virtually every single citizenship mandamus decision published by the Federal Court for more than the last decade (reading PR and citizenship related Federal Court decisions is kind of what I do, for fun; but, note, that number is rather small, in any given day I typically read many more judicial decisions regarding other subjects than the number of Canadian citizenship cases decided by the Federal Court in a year). NONE of those decisions, NOT ONE, suggest let alone support the proposition that even a three year processing time will be grounds for issuing mandamus in a citizenship case.


Some Further Observations:

If there is a problem with processing your application that needs addressing, the odds are very high YOU know where that is coming from, or have at least a fair idea, and at least generally what that is about.

If you genuinely do not know of any reason why there might be a problem with your application, odds are very high there is NO PROBLEM (no serious problem anyway) and NO REASON TO WORRY, that indeed you are in the same boat in which scores and scores of other applicants are adrift, gently bobbing away the days in the rather calm, uneventful sea of bureaucracy. Nothing to do but WAIT, to WAIT and WATCH for communication from IRCC regarding the next step.

Yes, an extraordinarily long timeline can indicate reason to make inquiries. Which apparently you have done. As noted above, it is NOT grounds for Mandamus (despite contrary, erroneous suggestions in forums like this, dating back many, many years).

Overall, while an extraordinarily long timeline (compared to the timelines being reported by others, especially others in the same geographical area being processed in the same local office) is reason to be more proactive and to make inquiries, that is mostly to make sure the application is actually in process, which is about its status and NOT about anyone actually doing anything with the application ("in process" mostly means the application's status is active and it is in a queue waiting for someone to take the next step in processing it). That is, for assurance the application is not accidentally in limbo (rare but apparently it does happen), or more commonly (but still rather infrequent) suspended (application processing may be suspended if the applicant is being investigated by CBSA for various things, ranging from inadmissibility for RO compliance or misrepresentation, to certain prohibitions, or for refugee-PRs potential cessation proceedings).
 

Shpetim_2019

Full Member
Jun 6, 2019
22
3
I have applied in January 2018 my application was processed in March 2018
in June 2018 I pass the citizenship test and ever since never heard from them again we are in December 2019 for a few weeks will be two years since I’ve applied
Is very frustrating
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,432
3,176
I have applied in January 2018 my application was processed in March 2018
in June 2018 I pass the citizenship test and ever since never heard from them again we are in December 2019 for a few weeks will be two years since I’ve applied
Is very frustrating
The timeline suggests taking proactive efforts to make sure the application is still active, and if not (if suspended, for example), to ascertain why.

Mandamus is not likely a prudent recourse, at least not until and unless specific grounds for Mandamus appear . . . remembering, again, that the mere passage of time is NOT grounds for Mandamus.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,432
3,176
By way of Further Observations . . . including reference to a recent case before the Federal Court involving an application pending for TWENTY YEARS . . .

Given that slow processing tends to invite periodic queries about Mandamus, and the persistent albeit unfounded recurrence of responses erroneously suggesting there is a time-based threshold beyond which Mandamus may be warranted, it is important to emphasize:
IRCC has NO time limitations for when a citizenship application must be decided, so the passage of time itself does NOT constitute grounds for a Writ of Mandamus.​

BUT it is just as important to recognize that if and when there is an inordinately excessive delay in processing, that can signal something is awry. As I suggested in my first post, and again just above in response to @Shpetim_2019, an extraordinarily long timeline can indicate reason to make inquiries or pursue recourse.

Many times there is a REASON why an application has stalled much longer than others in the same local office. Sometimes that REASON can be addressed and resolved. Other times it simply explains why. Generally applicants have at least a fair idea what's up and why. Despite many protesting otherwise.

In any event, my previous observations should NOT be understood to discourage proactive efforts to discover, identify, and address real issues. And actually Mandamus may be a viable approach to addressing some issues.

If the only issue is that the processing is exceedingly slow, PATIENCE tends to be the name of the game, and WAITING and WATCHING for IRCC notices is how that game is played.

In contrast, if indeed it appears that IRCC is NOT proceeding to process the application, then WHY the application is stalled, WHY it is NOT being processed, is far, far more important than HOW LONG it has been pending.

NOTE/REMINDER: It still appears that IRCC policy generally is to NOT notify applicants when processing the application has been suspended pursuant to Section 13.1 in the Citizenship Act. It is also NOT clear that this will show up in an applicant's version of the GCMS notes shared in response to a generic ATIP request. There have been somewhat recent discussions in Federal Court decisions suggesting that IRCC continues to fail to notify applicants that processing is suspended even in response to queries about the application's status. It appears that IRCC might acknowledge an application has been suspended only if there is a fairly direct request for this information.


That said . . . TWENTY YEAR delay may be enough to support Mandamus.

Last week (Monday, December 2) the Federal Court was scheduled to hear an application for a Writ of Mandamus in regards to an application for citizenship made TWENTY YEARS ago. I do NOT know the outcome of that hearing. I do not know if TWENTY YEARS is enough to justify granting a Writ of Mandamus. My sense is that the outcome of that case, like almost all citizenship and Mandamus cases, will depend as much on OTHER factors as it does the length of time involved.

But that case suggests adding a clarification to my previous remarks. In particular, in a narrow and largely indirect way, a very lengthy processing time can be perceived to be inordinate and a relevant factor in alleging grounds for Mandamus. Because of that, in the past here my reminder that "IRCC has NO time limitations for when a citizenship application must be decided, so the passage of time itself does NOT constitute grounds for a Writ of Mandamus," has sometimes generated a vociferous challenge.

As Justice Anne L. Mactavish has stated, Mandamus may be warranted in the context of a grant citizenship application in "unusual circumstances," where there are "inordinate and unexplained delays."

Justice Mactavish made that statement in Stanizai v. Canada (Citizenship and Immigration), 2014 FC 74 (CanLII), http://canlii.ca/t/g2wb9 which is a decision I have cited and linked multiple times in this forum. And it is the decision I was referencing in my previous post, regarding the issuance of the Writ where a CJ approved the application and CIC did not timely appeal.

There is a difference, usually a huge difference, between slow processing, even exceedingly slow processing, and "unusual circumstances" where there are "inordinate and unexplained delays."

As I noted in my previous post, this is a subject I've addressed more than occasionally here. Almost always in response to queries and responses which suggest that the availability of Mandamus may depend on HOW long an application has been pending, with this or that suggestion as to what timeline will render Mandamus a potentially available remedy. While there are some references to two and a half years, the most commonly cited how-long-is-long-enough criteria is three years, which derives in large part from case law well over a decade ago, including Justice Barnes decision in Gondara v. Canada (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration), 2006 FC 204 (CanLII), http://canlii.ca/t/1mm7n which involved an individual for whom a decision had been made and the oath scheduled, and it was not until the day of the oath that CIC suspended processing.

But numerous cases since then have reaffirmed that there are no grounds for mandamus based merely on the amount of time a citizenship application has been pending. (Note: in recent years even the approach taken by Justice Mactavish in Stanizai has been significantly curtailed given the very broad provision, that is Section 13.1 in the Citizenship Act, allowing IRCC to suspend processing added to the Citizenship Act in 2014.)

The "three year" criteria has been argued before the Federal Court, purportedly based on "established case law," such as it was in Tayeb Ali v. Canada (Citizenship and Immigration), 2016 FC 1051 (CanLII), [2017] http://canlii.ca/t/gw1qc where the petitioner and citizenship applicant (without counsel) argued "on the basis of established case law, a three-year timeframe is sufficient to process a citizenship application." The case law cited included Justice Mactavish's decision in Stanizai and a Human Rights Commission case. Neither of which support the three-year proposition. And that argument was brushed off albeit based on the facts in the particular case.

This leads back to the observation that WHY an application is stalled, WHY it is NOT being processed, is far, far more important than HOW LONG it has been pending.

Most applicants have a fair idea what's up and why. Notwithstanding many protests to the contrary. And, indeed, the vast, vast majority of applicants who know of no reason why their application might be stalled have NO REASON to worry, as it is unlikely their application is stalled but, rather, merely bogged down in slow processing.
But as already noted, yes, an inordinately excessive delay in processing can signal something is awry. Whatever that "something" might be, a specifically directed inquiry as to the application's status and, specifically, whether or not there has been any suspending of processing, may be warranted. May not be much the applicant can do about it. But if there is a hold or the application is suspended, it can be important to find out this is what is happening, and why, and determine what recourse might be available. Which might include Mandamus, not because of the time delay but if the reason for the delay is unjustified.


SOME ADDITIONAL OBSERVATIONS:

Most of the citizenship application Mandamus cases in the last four or five years are related to PR-refugee cases and the suspending of processing pending potential cessation proceedings, most of which I have discussed including many I have cited and linked in another topic specifically about the impact of cessation on PR-refugees applying for citizenship. Some of the earlier cases in this subset resulted in a Writ of Mandamus, ordering CIC/IRCC to proceed with the citizenship application. More recent cases tend to go the other way based on Section 13.1 in the Citizenship Act. For example, see Lezama Cerna v. Canada (Citizenship and Immigration), 2019 FC 756 (CanLII), http://canlii.ca/t/j0qwh and Canada (Citizenship and Immigration) v. Nilam, 2017 FCA 44 (CanLII), [2018] 2 FCR 511, http://canlii.ca/t/h1s6l (the latter is a Federal Court of Appeal decision, which establishes a binding precedent; Federal Court decisions, in contrast, do not establish binding precedent, even though in many contexts their legal rulings represent the current law).

With some exceptions. Which brings this back around to the individual whose citizenship application was made TWENTY YEARS ago. And his application for Mandamus which was scheduled for a Federal Court hearing December 2, 2019. While generally the courts are allowing IRCC to suspend citizenship application processing pending inquiry (let alone actual proceedings) as to PR-refugee cessation, in the two cases involving Mr. Sharafaldin, whose citizenship application for citizenship has been pending for twenty years, it is the RPD which has postponed cessation proceedings pending the outcome of the citizenship case. And in Canada (Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness) v. Sharafaldin, 2019 FC 1168 (CanLII), http://canlii.ca/t/j2cx1 the Federal Court sustained the RPD's decision to wait for the outcome of the citizenship application (referencing the December 2, 2019 hearing date for the citizenship mandamus case).
 

guelphmm

Star Member
May 27, 2011
196
9
I have applied in January 2018 my application was processed in March 2018
in June 2018 I pass the citizenship test and ever since never heard from them again we are in December 2019 for a few weeks will be two years since I’ve applied
Is very frustrating
do you receive your updates by email? check you spam folders too.

Try contacting them ..
 
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Shpetim_2019

Full Member
Jun 6, 2019
22
3
Hello everyone,

I applied in June of last year. I live in Mississauga. On the ATIP notes, it shows that my file has been transferred to Scarborough due to work overload.

I haven’t written the test yet. Seeing a lot of people I know getting the citizenship in less than a year makes me happy for them but at the same time kind of frustrated with my situation.

I’ve contacted IRCC many times. Contacted the MP office as well. Same generic answer: Wait.

Should I consider a Mandamus application? What do you guys think?


Thank you.
I applied in January 2018
I did the citizenship test in june 2018 and i havend been invited to take the Oath yet we are now in February 2020 is ver frustrating
I call them wait they said same they told to the MP
Any other case like this?
any advice?
 
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brandon.smith

Full Member
Mar 22, 2016
40
11
I applied in January 2018
I did the citizenship test in june 2018 and i havend been invited to take the Oath yet we are now in February 2020 is ver frustrating
I call them wait they said same they told to the MP
Any other case like this?
any advice?
wow. thats a 2 years period u have crossed.. What it is been delayed? background checks?
 

Fallen_Warrior

Hero Member
May 16, 2013
287
122
I applied in January 2018
I did the citizenship test in june 2018 and i havend been invited to take the Oath yet we are now in February 2020 is ver frustrating
I call them wait they said same they told to the MP
Any other case like this?
any advice?
I am Jan 2018 applicant and not even invited for test/interview. So, cheers. :)