Lost Status, new application

[Sternchen30890]

hello, I hope I can get an answer here.
We lost our PR status since we moved back to Germany from Canada in 2009 and didnt return back. We lived and worked there for almost 10 years and have a son born in Canada in 2005.
We do not have a good reason to appeal. We just missed our home country, but now we regret our decision and want to move back to Canada.
We want to apply next year again under the skilled worker class. Does anybody know if we have to clear our status first or together with the application?
Or is there another way to apply/move back to Canada?
Thanks for your help!

 

[Msafiri]

hello, I hope I can get an answer here.
We lost our PR status since we moved back to Germany from Canada in 2009 and didnt return back. We lived and worked there for almost 10 years and have a son born in Canada in 2005.
We do not have a good reason to appeal. We just missed our home country, but now we regret our decision and want to move back to Canada.
We want to apply next year again under the skilled worker class. Does anybody know if we have to clear our status first or together with the application?
Or is there another way to apply/move back to Canada?
Thanks for your help!

Formal loss of PR only occurs if CIC become aware that you don't meet the Residence Obligation of 730 days in each 5 year rolling period from attaining PR. CIC usually becomes aware when PR makes an immigration related application e.g. sponsorship, a travel document to return to Canada, PR Card as all these applications involve a review of your residence status.

If you can enter Canada without being reported for the Residence Obligation breach and stay straight for 2 years (730 days) without leaving then your PR status will be back in good standing. As German citizens you have the good fortune of being visitor visa exempt to Canada and don't need travel documents so you can get a flight to Canada and deal with immigration when you arrive. Airline will assume you are just regular visitors if you have return tickets.

Border agent may or may not bring up the issue of your PR status. If he/she does then he/she may decide to let it slide. From posts on this forum it appears rare for visitor visa exempt nationals to be reported..seems most border agents view visitor visa exempt nationals as low risk of overstaying and usually process them at the primary line.

Your son is a Canadian citizen so he never has to worry about the Residence Obligation. He can get a Canadian passport at the visa post in Germany - check their website for required documents, fee and processing times. With a Canadian passport his re-entry should be smooth.

If you enter without being reported then do not apply for PR Cards prior to getting 730 days. Travel prior to the 730 days will be a risk as at each re-entry as border agent may decide to dig into your situation and find out why you don't have a PR Card.

 

[Sternchen30890]

Formal loss of PR only occurs if CIC become aware that you don't meet the Residence Obligation of 730 days in each 5 year rolling period from attaining PR. CIC usually becomes aware when PR makes an immigration related application e.g. sponsorship, a travel document to return to Canada, PR Card as all these applications involve a review of your residence status.

If you can enter Canada without being reported for the Residence Obligation breach and stay straight for 2 years (730 days) without leaving then your PR status will be back in good standing. As German citizens you have the good fortune of being visitor visa exempt to Canada and don't need travel documents so you can get a flight to Canada and deal with immigration when you arrive. Airline will assume you are just regular visitors if you have return tickets.

Border agent may or may not bring up the issue of your PR status. If he/she does then he/she may decide to let it slide. From posts on this forum it appears rare for visitor visa exempt nationals to be reported..seems most border agents view visitor visa exempt nationals as low risk of overstaying and usually process them at the primary line.

Your son is a Canadian citizen so he never has to worry about the Residence Obligation. He can get a Canadian passport at the visa post in Germany - check their website for required documents, fee and processing times. With a Canadian passport his re-entry should be smooth.

If you enter without being reported then do not apply for PR Cards prior to getting 730 days. Travel prior to the 730 days will be a risk as at each re-entry as border agent may decide to dig into your situation and find out why you don't have a PR Card.

thanks for your quick reply. Its the first time I hear this. Our son has a valid canadian passport. if we pack up things and go back to Canada with our expired PR cards, they wont ask us about our status in Canada? It seems like a big risk to me since we are planing to leave Germany permanently. This means, selling our house and everything. What about working in Canada? Is there no risk the government finds out that we lost our status? (lost technically), Thanks!

 

[scylla]

thanks for your quick reply. Its the first time I hear this. Our son has a valid canadian passport. if we pack up things and go back to Canada with our expired PR cards, they wont ask us about our status in Canada? It seems like a big risk to me since we are planing to leave Germany permanently. This means, selling our house and everything. What about working in Canada? Is there no risk the government finds out that we lost our status? (lost technically), Thanks!

Yes - are definitely risks involved. This won't guarantee that you will be able to save your PR. You have to be willing to take a risk if you want to try this path.

As Msafiri explained, when you enter Canada, there is a chance the immigration official may report you for failing to meet your residency obligation. No one here can tell you what the chances are of this happening - however there's definitely a chance. If you are reported, you will have to appear in front of a judge within 30 days to argue why you should be allowed to retain your PR status. I think you would fail this hearing and have your PR status revoked since you have no H&C reasons for failing to live in Canada and meeting the residency requirement. So if you are reported, assume your PR status will be lost. However if you are able to enter Canada unreported - then you can stay two full years and apply to renew your PR cards.

 

[Sternchen30890]

Yes - are definitely risks involved. This won't guarantee that you will be able to save your PR. You have to be willing to take a risk if you want to try this path.

As Msafiri explained, when you enter Canada, there is a chance the immigration official may report you for failing to meet your residency obligation. No one here can tell you what the chances are of this happening - however there's definitely a chance. If you are reported, you will have to appear in front of a judge within 30 days to argue why you should be allowed to retain your PR status. I think you would fail this hearing and have your PR status revoked since you have no H&C reasons for failing to live in Canada and meeting the residency requirement. So if you are reported, assume your PR status will be lost. However if you are able to enter Canada unreported - then you can stay two full years and apply to renew your PR cards.

Hello, Thank you! What happens if we get reported and loose our PR status? Do we have to leave Canada right away?
it make no difference that our son was born in Canada and we lived there for almost 10 years?

 

[scylla]

Hello, Thank you! What happens if we get reported and loose our PR status? Do we have to leave Canada right away?
it make no difference that our son was born in Canada and we lived there for almost 10 years?

I believe you would be asked to leave Canada within 30 days. You may have an opportunity to convert your status to that of tourists. However this will obviously only allow you to stay for a few additional months - and you won't be allowed to work or use the health care system. So you would have to leave fairly soon regardless and your PR status would be gone.

Having a son that was born in Canada and the fact that you lived there for almost 10 years will not help you to retain your PR status.

It's really too bad you didn't obtain Canadian citizenship while you were here. Then you would have no problems returning.

 

[Sternchen30890]

I believe you would be asked to leave Canada within 30 days. You may have an opportunity to convert your status to that of tourists. However this will obviously only allow you to stay for a few additional months - and you won't be allowed to work or use the health care system. So you would have to leave fairly soon regardless and your PR status would be gone.

Having a son that was born in Canada and the fact that you lived there for almost 10 years will not help you to retain your PR status.

It's really too bad you didn't obtain Canadian citizenship while you were here. Then you would have no problems returning.

yes it is...

I think we will apply for a travel document and after our status is cleared re-apply next year under the skilled worker class. Hoping they give us a second chance.
I just talked to a lady from CRA and she said we need to send an "application for a travel document for returning residents" to Vienna. Is that the Travel Document (Permanent Resident Abroad)???
Would it make sense to sent this application together with our visa application (skilled worker) next year?
Thank you!!!!

 

[Leon]

yes it is...

I think we will apply for a travel document and after our status is cleared re-apply next year under the skilled worker class. Hoping they give us a second chance.
I just talked to a lady from CRA and she said we need to send an "application for a travel document for returning residents" to Vienna. Is that the Travel Document (Permanent Resident Abroad)???
Would it make sense to sent this application together with our visa application (skilled worker) next year?
Thank you!!!!

Yes, travel document for PR abroad is what you want. You can either apply for it and see if they give you one which they probably wont or you could just renounce your PR. Then you can apply again.

The other option has been stated that you could simply enter Canada, with or without your PR card and see if you get reported. There is a chance to get reported but it seems to be fairly low, especially since you are visa exempt. If you are not reported, you are still a PR and are allowed to work but you might have problems getting a drivers licence and health care without a PR card. After 2 years, your PR status would be in good standing again.

 

[Sternchen30890]

Yes, travel document for PR abroad is what you want. You can either apply for it and see if they give you one which they probably wont or you could just renounce your PR. Then you can apply again.

The other option has been stated that you could simply enter Canada, with or without your PR card and see if you get reported. There is a chance to get reported but it seems to be fairly low, especially since you are visa exempt. If you are not reported, you are still a PR and are allowed to work but you might have problems getting a drivers licence and health care without a PR card. After 2 years, your PR status would be in good standing again.

Hello! Since we have a school aged son we dont want to take that risk. We will need a drivers licence and health care for sure. How can we renounce our PR????
Thanks!!

 

[Leon]

Hello! Since we have a school aged son we dont want to take that risk. We will need a drivers licence and health care for sure. How can we renounce our PR????
Thanks!!

You would have to contact a Canadian embassy about renouncing your PR. The form for that is not available online. Alternatively, you can apply for a travel document. If you don't get it, you will lose your PR but if you get it, you can return and apply for a PR card right away based on that.

 

[Sternchen30890]

Yes, travel document for PR abroad is what you want. You can either apply for it and see if they give you one which they probably wont or you could just renounce your PR. Then you can apply again.

The other option has been stated that you could simply enter Canada, with or without your PR card and see if you get reported. There is a chance to get reported but it seems to be fairly low, especially since you are visa exempt. If you are not reported, you are still a PR and are allowed to work but you might have problems getting a drivers licence and health care without a PR card. After 2 years, your PR status would be in good standing again.

Hello!
how can we live in Canada for two years wihout being able to get a drivers licence or buy a car? Has anybody done this here in this forum? Our son should get health care right?
What about renting a house? Is that all possible with an expired PR?
Thank you!!!