LOE Very Similar to NOC Job and Responsibilities HELP

[sby123]

Hi all, my employer provided me with an LOE that has roles and responsibilities very similar to the ones in the website.Although they did change few wording, they are very similar. My question is,how risky is it?Should I ask my employer to change it?Or will I be okay as it has the company letterhead,and the signature of my HR?
Thanks

 

[DelPiero07]

If it's basically a copy + paste then...

Very risky.

 

[sby123]

If it's basically a copy + paste then...

Very risky.

Thanks for the answer Del Piero, this is what I have


Conducting research into the feasibility, design, operation and performance of

mechanisms, components and systems for assigned projects;

 Preparing reports and designing specifications for machine vision inspection system

projects;

 Planning, managing, and preparing cost and time estimates for projects;

 Evaluating and synthesizing technical information to design, develop and test

computer-based machine vision inspection systems;

 Supervising technicians, technologists and other engineers, and inspecting the

installation, modification and commissioning of computer-based machine vision

inspection systems at construction sites or in manufacturing facilities;

 Assessing and developing solutions for Machine Vision failures or maintenance issues;

 Assisting technical service personnel in proper execution of mechanical drawings,

mechanical assembly and setup of cameras on machine vision; and

 Training customers on Machine Vision Systems.

This is what NOC2132 has

Conduct research into the feasibility, design, operation and performance of mechanisms, components and systems
Plan and manage projects, and prepare material, cost and timing estimates, reports and design specifications for machinery and systems
Design power plants, machines, components, tools, fixtures and equipment
Analyze dynamics and vibrations of mechanical systems and structures
Supervise and inspect the installation, modification and commissioning of mechanical systems at construction sites or in industrial facilities
Develop maintenance standards, schedules and programs and provide guidance to industrial maintenance crews
Investigate mechanical failures or unexpected maintenance problems
Prepare contract documents and evaluate tenders for industrial construction or maintenance
Supervise technicians, technologists and other engineers and review and approve designs, calculations and cost estimates.

What do you think?

 

[DelPiero07]

Thanks for the answer Del Piero, this is what I have


Conducting research into the feasibility, design, operation and performance of

mechanisms, components and systems for assigned projects;

 Preparing reports and designing specifications for machine vision inspection system

projects;

 Planning, managing, and preparing cost and time estimates for projects;

 Evaluating and synthesizing technical information to design, develop and test

computer-based machine vision inspection systems;

 Supervising technicians, technologists and other engineers, and inspecting the

installation, modification and commissioning of computer-based machine vision

inspection systems at construction sites or in manufacturing facilities;

 Assessing and developing solutions for Machine Vision failures or maintenance issues;

 Assisting technical service personnel in proper execution of mechanical drawings,

mechanical assembly and setup of cameras on machine vision; and

 Training customers on Machine Vision Systems.

This is what NOC2132 has

Conduct research into the feasibility, design, operation and performance of mechanisms, components and systems
Plan and manage projects, and prepare material, cost and timing estimates, reports and design specifications for machinery and systems
Design power plants, machines, components, tools, fixtures and equipment
Analyze dynamics and vibrations of mechanical systems and structures
Supervise and inspect the installation, modification and commissioning of mechanical systems at construction sites or in industrial facilities
Develop maintenance standards, schedules and programs and provide guidance to industrial maintenance crews
Investigate mechanical failures or unexpected maintenance problems
Prepare contract documents and evaluate tenders for industrial construction or maintenance
Supervise technicians, technologists and other engineers and review and approve designs, calculations and cost estimates.

What do you think?

I would ask them to change the wording of these:

"Conducting research into the feasibility, design, operation and performance of

mechanisms, components and systems for assigned projects;

 Planning, managing, and preparing cost and time estimates for projects;

 Supervising technicians, technologists and other engineers, and inspecting the

installation, modification and commissioning of"

 

[jes_ON]

What do you think?

There's some cut-and-paste, but there is also some effort to tailor it. It would be better if there were no 100% verbatim items, but this would probably be OK.

 

[jamesls1]

How is that very risky? The employer is confirming that those were the duties performed and signing to say it's true.

One of my employment letters has all the duties listed as under the NOC because that's exactly what I did and it's correct. It's hard enough getting these letters in the first place let alone a nice pretty rewording of how the duties are laid out.

If it's signed off then it's a confirmation and that's that. CIC can ring the employer if needed to check.

 

[DelPiero07]

How is that very risky? The employer is confirming that those were the duties performed and signing to say it's true.

One of my employment letters has all the duties listed as under the NOC because that's exactly what I did and it's correct. It's hard enough getting these letters in the first place let alone a nice pretty rewording of how the duties are laid out.

If it's signed off then it's a confirmation and that's that. CIC can ring the employer if needed to check.

Because it raises suspicion, unless you have your NOC in your work permit they shouldn't know this information.

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/employer-copy-pasted-noc-duties-t348322.0.html

 

[sby123]

Thanks all for the reply and help

 

[jes_ON]

How is that very risky? The employer is confirming that those were the duties performed and signing to say it's true.

One of my employment letters has all the duties listed as under the NOC because that's exactly what I did and it's correct. It's hard enough getting these letters in the first place let alone a nice pretty rewording of how the duties are laid out.

If it's signed off then it's a confirmation and that's that. CIC can ring the employer if needed to check.

Most larger (read "legitimate") employers have written job descriptions for their employees, in their own words, and will rarely be 100% aligned with an NOC. A cut and paste from the NOC says "this is not the real job description," and either "I'm being lazy and don't care if it's accurate" or "I will say what I think they want to hear" (AKA cheating).

In the past, IRCC has specifically said not to copy the NOC job descriptions. In the OP 6 (the manual for VOs for FSW before express entry), CIC's view is described:

"Descriptions of duties taken verbatim from the NOC should be regarded as self-serving. Presented with such documents, visa officers may question whether they accurately describe an applicant’s experience. A document that lacks sufficient detail to permit eventual verification and a credible description of the applicant’s experience is unlikely to satisfy an officer of an applicant’s eligibility."

A court case has upheld CIC's position that verbatim job descriptions diminish the credibility of the employment letter and can reasonably be interpreted as "insufficient evidence" of having performed the job duties of the NOC.

http://visalawcanada.blogspot.ca/2013/08/employment-letter-copied-job-duties.html

 

[sby123]

• Preparing reports and designing specifications for Machine Vision inspection system projects
• Preparing Gantt Chart and cost estimations for various projects
• Preparing a quote and feasibility study reports for future and/or current customers
• Evaluating technical information to develop and test computer-based Machine Vision inspection systems
• Leading a group of engineers for installation and commissioning of Machine Vision inspection machines in manufacturing facilities
• Assessing and developing solutions for Machine Vision failures or maintenance issues
• Assisting technical service personnel in proper execution of mechanical drawings, mechanical assembly and setup of cameras on machine vision
• Training customers on Machine Vision Systems

This is what I have now,vs NOC

Conduct research into the feasibility, design, operation and performance of mechanisms, components and systems
Plan and manage projects, and prepare material, cost and timing estimates, reports and design specifications for machinery and systems
Design power plants, machines, components, tools, fixtures and equipment
Analyze dynamics and vibrations of mechanical systems and structures
Supervise and inspect the installation, modification and commissioning of mechanical systems at construction sites or in industrial facilities
Develop maintenance standards, schedules and programs and provide guidance to industrial maintenance crews
Investigate mechanical failures or unexpected maintenance problems
Prepare contract documents and evaluate tenders for industrial construction or maintenance
Supervise technicians, technologists and other engineers and review and approve designs, calculations and cost estimates.

What do you guys think

 

[jamesls1]

That's a very substantial change now so I would say that's fine, as long as it covers 80% etc of what the NOC asks for.

This is my current predicament:

NOC:
Assist lawyers by interviewing clients, witnesses and other related parties, assembling documentary evidence, preparing trial briefs, and arranging for trials
Assist lawyers in preparation for mediation and judicial dispute resolutions
Prepare wills, real estate transactions and other legal documents, court reports and affidavits
Research records, court files and other legal documents
Draft legal correspondence and perform general office and clerical duties.

My letter from employer:

Assisting solicitors in interviewing clients
Speaking to witnesses and other related people
Putting together evidence bundles
Preparing trial briefs
Assisting solicitors in preparation for mediation
Preparing other legal documents
Researching court records, case law and other legal documents
Drafting legal correspondence
Other general office administration duties

Before I go back and seriously ruffle feathers at this law firm by asking them to reproduce this letter, can anyone offer their opinion on the above? Is it okay?

Also one other issue... I worked for 2 different recruitment firms. I sent the same letter re-tweaked to both of them and they were different from the NOC substantially however the responsibilities are identical to each other.

What do you guys think to that?

Thank you for creating this discussion so close to me submitting this! Found out just in time.

 

[jamesls1]

It's not copy and paste verbatim and obviously some effort has been put in from my employer to tweak it to my case. However it's easy to see the NOC was in mind. However however, the role of paralegal is pretty straight forward so saying "preparing trial briefs" I mean how else do you reword that? Trial briefs, he prepared?

I can imagine where someone just copies and pastes that's obviously a lazy and questionable thing to do but taking some time to fit it to my situation even where the wording is very similar should be passable? That's how I would differentiate my case.

 

[tormentor]

I submitted my application last week with copy pasted NOC (I thought that would be safer!), and this thread scares me now.
I did submit offer letter, salary slips etc. too plus this was with a very very well reputed and big organisation, so I don't know if that'll help or not.
I found cases where this was not an issue : http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/anyone-got-succededrejected-having-same-job-duties-as-hrsdc-on-job-letter-t144841.0.html;msg2344699#msg2344699
Fingers crossed!

 

[jamesls1]

It's really hard to get a former employer to do anything other than their legal bare minimum which is to confirm dates and job title. So getting a manager to sit down to write down job responsibilities for someone who worked there over 5 years' ago to satisfy 80% of the NOC requirements, without being able to glance at the NOC requirements because it's not supposed to be accessible to them??

Come on.

 

[DEEPCUR]

Guys, I have one related question here. It is been said that responsibilities listed should be match with lead statements given NOC website. What do they mean by lead statement? Can someone please explain? If we are not supposed to have what is given in NOC website exactly, how it would match the lead statement then? Is paraphrasing okay? If paraphrased, then it won't match the lead statements right.