Living abroad with Canadian Citizen wife

[Leon]

Hello Moderator

I could nto figure out how to start a New Topic and so I am replying to this only.

I got my PR Card in Nov-2010. I stayed for 15 days and I came back Dubai where I am working. After some time my wife who is a Canadian Citizen came to stay with me. She has been travelling to our home country India and also to Canada for some, but totally she has stayed with me for more than 730 days in Dubai and we have been together here.

Will this cause any problems with my PR Card renewal. My concern is she and I did not travel back from Canada to Dubai in 2011. She came back alone. She stayed with me for some months and went back and In 2012 I went to Canda and then we travelled back togther.

From the answer given by you, I note that In the case of a permanent resident outside Canada accompanying a Canadian citizen, it is not necessary to determine who is accompanying whom, nor is it necessary to determine for what purpose.

Can I understand from this that it is not necessary that we shoud have travelled together, but what is of importance is that we have stayed together in Dubai. Is my understanding correct.

As far as I know, your understanding is correct but you may need to find a way to prove that your wife was staying with you during those periods. I suppose she has passport stamps but did she get mail sent to your address in Dubai because that would be helpful.

 

[Jerry1410]

Yes we have a Joint Bank Account in which her name is shown along with mine.
The stamps on the Passport also show that she was with me in Dubai

 

[keesio]

CIC will probably request a lot of proof that she was indeed living with you in Dubai. Any proof that she was living in Dubai with you would be very helpful. Having her name on a joint bank account would not be enough. Things like employment/school records in Dubai, medical records, etc would be examples of physical proof.

 

[SGPMan]

I just got my PR card renewed. When I picked up the card I was asked by CIC how would I maintain my residency. I mentioned that my wife recently became a citizen and with that I will use the status of accompanying a citizen to maintain my residency. She mentioned that in this case, I should be accompanying her and not the way around. If she is only a housewife it will not count. Though I read in the earlier post it does not matter who accompanies who, as long as we can show we are living together and are a married couple that should suffice.

Can anyone confirm which is what in this scenario??

Thanks

 

[dpenabill]

I just got my PR card renewed. When I picked up the card I was asked by CIC how would I maintain my residency. I mentioned that my wife recently became a citizen and with that I will use the status of accompanying a citizen to maintain my residency. She mentioned that in this case, I should be accompanying her and not the way around. If she is only a housewife it will not count. Though I read in the earlier post it does not matter who accompanies who, as long as we can show we are living together and are a married couple that should suffice.

Can anyone confirm which is what in this scenario??

Thanks

Older cases were split, CIC or CBSA (depending on who was conducting the residency examination) sometimes distinguishing cases in which the Canadian citizen was clearly abroad to accompany the PR. Even then, however, the majority of the cases were based on whether the couple was living together, with no regard for who would be said to be accompanying whom. Thus, even then, in the majority of cases, proof of qualified relationship (marriage certificate best), partner's Canadian citizenship (copy of passport), and proof of cohabitation (see family class sponsorships for full discussion of what constitutes proof of cohabitation) sufficed to qualify for the accompanying-a-Canadian-citizen-partner credit toward residency.

More recently (last few years), with very few and (in my view) distinguishable exceptions, the case law has consistently applied the latter approach, and the last time I checked (perhaps a couple months ago) this was also how the applicable CIC operational manual prescribes it should be . . . so until very recently, at the least, with distinguishable exceptions, the living abroad with Canadian citizen spouse (partner in qualified relationship) credit is available to a PR who PROVES:
-- qualified relationship
-- partner's Canadian citizenship, and
-- cohabitation

I emphasized "until very recently" because this is a policy which is subject to change. And we know that the current government has been increasingly strict in its approach to enforcing the PR Residency Obligation. For example, the credit toward residency for a PR employed abroad by a Canadian business has been dramatically restricted by this government, increasingly applying a very strict approach to what businesses and what employments qualify, so strict lately that one wonders whether a PR can actually qualify for this credit without meeting the PR Residency Obligation based on presence in Canada.

Your report is the first hint of the more strict interpretation of "accompanying" I have seen in a long while (noting, however, I have not been reading IAD decisions extensively in the last many months). But in contrast I have seen many anecdotal reports in the forums that illustrate cases in which PRs are pushing-the-envelope . . . that is, relying on a more or less technical application of this credit without really maintaining much of a connection to permanently residing in Canada. The problem with that is that is in reliance on the approach which does not distinguish who is accompanying whom, and when it comes to dueling interpretations based on technicalities, of course CIC holds the trump card: CIC is the primary interpreter of the applicable statutes and regulations.

Thus, despite the extent to which the approach based on, in effect, showing cohabitation is sufficient to meet the "accompanying" element, has been dominant, there is no guarantee that internally CIC is not modifying its approach to these cases and potentially either amending the interpretation or more closely examining the facts and circumstances in specific cases relative to the "accompanying" requirement.

This brings up those few, until recently very isolated cases, in which proof of just being together has failed to be given credit toward the PR Residency Obligation. Two of the three that come to mind were cases where the PR was living and working abroad and the citizen-partner was living in Canada, and the citizen-partner went abroad to join the PR . . . no hint the PR had any established connection to Canada except having landed (at some point) and having a citizen-partner. Additionally, in these two cases, the citizen-partner was still spending at least a significant amount of time in Canada apart from the PR (the extent of time apart appearing to be contrary to the PR accompanying the citizen-partner). The third case that comes to mind involved a PR living abroad for a long while then marrying a Canadian citizen, and then two plus years later (or so, maybe it was longer, my recall is not clear) applying for a PR Travel Document and it was rejected based on distinguishing the citizen-partner's as accompanying the PR, not the PR accompanying the citizen-partner.

The question that comes to mind is whether CIC is examining other factual scenarios to identify, similarly, grounds to distinguish and not allow the credit in situations where it is more or less clear the citizen-partner is accompanying the PR, not the other way around.

Until your report that a CIC official (of some sort) mentioned this distinction, my sense has been the distinction was largely dead except in extreme situations (like the PR living abroad who marries a Canadian citizen, and the PR has not had any real connection to Canada in many years). But if someone with authority at CIC is mentioning this now, perhaps this is a clue of changes coming and something PRs living abroad should pay attention to.

 

[chilkootcee]

I'm glad I found this thread...cause when my husband landed I casually mentioned to the immigration officer that the Condition 51 combined with his physical presence requirements would cause me to have to turn down some overseas contracts. He then went on to say that there shouldn't be no problem with me taking on short contracts and being apart for short periods (I don't believe him on this one and won't bother to discuss this one further)...he also went on to say, that if he is accompanying me overseas then this maintains his physical presence requirement for residency (I understand from earlier posts that this doesn't count towards physical presence for citizenship - makes sense).

That having been said, we are planning to move to Canada to establish our lives there. Condition 51 makes things interesting because essentially I can't apply for work back in Canada (even though I'm more likely to find a job easier online) until he finds something...because at this point I don't know where he will end up (we're being open to any location in Canada due to the economic situation). Once he finds something (hopefully in his field) then I will look in the same location. Of course, there is always the option of him following me around...but I want to try and get him started on the right foot.

If the job situation is looking really grim in Canada (we'll give it a honest go for sure) then we may be looking at staying in the UAE as we both have good jobs here.

I just wanted to confirm the "accompanying a Canadian citizen overseas" not jeapardizing his PR status as there is information on CIC pages that reference the spouse must be working in the military or public service (fed or prov)...

Thanks for you feedback...

C.

 

[dpenabill]

Currently the policy underlying allowance for the credit toward time in Canada is largely based on living together. The statute and rules and guide all refer to time abroad a Canadian PR is accompanying the Canadian citizen spouse. Reason or purpose for being abroad is not considered. But the practical key is living together while abroad (thus, time one spends visiting the other abroad might not be credited).

In particular, to get the credit, the PR generally must prove:
-- in a qualified, genuine relationship (for marriage, copy of marriage certificate)
-- with a Canadian citizen spouse (copy of spouse's Canadian passport plus proof of how citizenship acquired, as in a Canadian birth certificate or naturalized citizen's certificate of citizenship -- my sense, however, is that the Canadian passport will usually suffice unless IRCC has some concern about the spouse's citizenship)
-- cohabitation, in-fact living together (typical evidence of living together, same address for both in formal transactions, like bank accounts and tax filings and such, plus proof of where the couple actually lived together, such as lease )

Condition 51 requires cohabitation for two years anyway.

Regarding periods of separation during the requisite two years of cohabitation: there is no fixed rule, and separations for temporary periods of time consistent with the continuation of the marital relationship, and so long as the couple continues to maintain the same actual place of residence as their primary residence, will ordinarily not be problematic. What constitutes a separation consistent with continuation of the marital relationship and maintaining, in effect, the same household, will vary considerably depending on many, many factors.

Generally there will be no problem unless the sponsor initiates a complaint that Condition 51 was not met, or IRCC is otherwise informed of circumstances suggesting the relationship was fraudulent, as in just entered into for the purpose of the sponsored partner obtaining PR status. While a disgruntled neighbour or landlord or colleague could ostensibly give the government a tip initiating a fraud investigation, the government is not likely to be interested unless it is fairly apparent that the sponsor and sponsored PR were indeed engaged in a scheme to get the sponsored PR his or her status in Canada and the couple is not really a couple . . . it is not likely they would closely scrutinize and calculate a pattern of separations to make a case if the couple's lives are in fact consistent with a married couple dealing with the need for one to spend periods of time abroad to earn a living.

 

[Ilia2015]

Hello ,
First of all thank you for all useful information here .
I am applying for PR card renewal for my husband after we got his MPRTD.
Now we are filling the form and I have a problem with section that is asking all his addresses in past five years in and out of Canada,Should we write all his staying time address with us in Canada address as well ,as he was only few weeks with us ?and from the other side his driving license and other canadian documents are according to same address he was staying at !My concern is the question should be answered properly to avoid any return of documents ,There is nothing mentioned that the people who had been outside of Canada can skip that part!
Thank you so much

 

[steaky]

Hello ,
First of all thank you for all useful information here .
I am applying for PR card renewal for my husband after we got his MPRTD.
Now we are filling the form and I have a problem with section that is asking all his addresses in past five years in and out of Canada,Should we write all his staying time address with us in Canada address as well ,as he was only few weeks with us ?and from the other side his driving license and other canadian documents are according to same address he was staying at !My concern is the question should be answered properly to avoid any return of documents ,There is nothing mentioned that the people who had been outside of Canada can skip that part!
Thank you so much

Your husband is no exception to skip that part.

 

[canuck78]

Sounds like your husband has only spent a couple of weeks with you. I assume you are in Canada. That means he probably doesn't meet the RO so am confused why you are renewing. Maybe I misunderstood.

 

[Ilia2015]

Sounds like your husband has only spent a couple of weeks with you. I assume you are in Canada. That means he probably doesn't meet the RO so am confused why you are renewing. Maybe I misunderstood.

Thank you for reply,sorry if I wasn't that clear
No I'm living with my husband outside of Canada for past 2 and half years (couting the days)both working and sed the money to canada for our kids who both are canadian citizen and full time student,they are our ties and that's why my husband had to work so hard and keep his job .I believe he meets the residency as we could get his MPRTD,my question was only regrading the special section in forms ,I think I have to write all the time (even short stay)he stayed with us at our place in Canada as his address in past five years in Canada.right?

 

[yoraj]

On the same lines ...I have a quick question, if you guys can help me with ....
In order for me to renew my Canadian PR from outside Canada (am currently accompanying my spouse who is a Canadian citizen, living in the US) do I need to also file Canadian taxes for the years when I was outside Canada ? Although I did file taxes for the years when I was IN Canada.
I guess my questions is - do I need to file taxes for all five years even thought I didn't stay in Canada more than 2 yrs ?

 

[Buletruck]

You have to be in Canada to renew your PR card. You can’t do it from outside of Canada.

How do I renew my permanent resident card?
If your permanent resident (PR) card is expired or will expire in less than nine months, you can renew it using the paper application form for a PR card. It is the same application whether you are applying for a new card or renewing an existing one.

To be eligible for a PR card, you need to:

• be a permanent resident
• submit your application in Canada

Find out how to submit a PR card application.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=057&top=10

 

[Rob_TO]

You have to be in Canada to renew your PR card. You can’t do it from outside of Canada.

How do I renew my permanent resident card?
If your permanent resident (PR) card is expired or will expire in less than nine months, you can renew it using the paper application form for a PR card. It is the same application whether you are applying for a new card or renewing an existing one.

To be eligible for a PR card, you need to:

• be a permanent resident
• submit your application in Canada

Find out how to submit a PR card application.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=057&top=10

Actually there was a thread not too long ago of a PR living in the UK with Canadian citizen spouse, who twice applied to renew his PR card while living in the UK. In both cases they processed and approved it, but they made him come back to Canada to pick it up.

So seems there is some discretion allowed to this rule.

 

[Mohamed123]

I just got my PR card renewed. When I picked up the card I was asked by CIC how would I maintain my residency. I mentioned that my wife recently became a citizen and with that I will use the status of accompanying a citizen to maintain my residency. She mentioned that in this case, I should be accompanying her and not the way around. If she is only a housewife it will not count. Though I read in the earlier post it does not matter who accompanies who, as long as we can show we are living together and are a married couple that should suffice.

Can anyone confirm which is what in this scenario??

Thanks

hey ! i got a similar problem! I am a PR holder living in Dubai with my wife who is a Canadian citizen! she is a house wife and i am the one working! we have two kids together who are both canadian citizens, in this case is time spent abroad counted as time lived in canada in order to renew my Pr? thanks