Limited proof of "genuine and continuing relationship"

[Michael.G]

We are currently somewhat stuck on IMM5285's #12: "On a separate sheet of paper, provide any additional details of your current relationship that you believe would help to prove your relationship is genuine and continuing." (We are trying for in-land spousal sponsorship. I am visiting from Germany.)

We met and decided to enter into a relationship in 2010 and first met in 2015 when I came to visit her. I landed in August and we married in December. The problem we have is that we have basically no physical evidence of our relationship from the five years we spent long-distance. We spent most of our free time together chatting and voicing over MSN and Skype and in about a dozen multiplayer games, and we do have a good amount of chat logs to provide. (We are still in the process of going through the logs and picking out parts of it to print, which is a bit difficult considering how much of our communication was via voice chat, and some through in-game chats which aren't or weren't logged.) We were both unemployed for almost the entire duration, so funds for buying one another things physically were a bit low. We did send each other a few packages, but didn't really think to save the receipts (though I may still have one, it's back home in Germany, and I'm not even sure there are details on it that would prove as evidence). We've also made a number of electronic purchases for one another, but they all lack proof of recipient.

So in short, for our five years of long distance, all we have to show are MSN and Skype chat logs (including call durations for what it's worth) and some Paypal payments (for which the closest might be something like me purchasing TWO copies of a multiplayer game). Are there additional details I could provide? Or any additional advice?

Edit: Also, what kind of chatter from the chat logs should we provide? Some of our chat logs are somewhat nonsense or have no context (such as her practicing written german), some are petty arguments, some are intimate or otherwise very personal things we are not too keen on sharing if we can avoid it (such as dealing with depression or us having cybersex).

 

[mollybloom]

My husband and I met at a wedding in July 2012, stayed in touch for several months (including my visiting him in Canada and him visiting me in the US) and got married the following January 2013. When we applied for my PR in June 2013 we included photographs of our visits between July and December, evidence of our joint bank account, and details pertaining to how we met.. The CIC didn't ask for any additional evidence.

I received my OWP in Feb. 2014. My PR application, however, was refused in Dec. 2013 due to my failure to submit my FBI background check on time.

I'm now starting the process from scratch. Again.

The chat logs will likely have value as will any photos, joint leases, or joint bank accounts.

Best of luck!

 

[Aquakitty]

First of all, don't apply inland if you can avoid it. Outland is at least half the time of inland, and you don't have to worry about your application getting cancelled if you want to leave the country. You can apply outland while living in Canada.

Since you are from a 1st world country they are not going to be as strict with the "genuine relationship" requirement. Skype and MSN chat is a good start. It's ok to put some of the more personal chats in there as every normal relationship has all types of communication (I would stop short of cyber sex though, lol, but I'm sure some people even include that). Even an argument is ok, since everyone argues in a relationship!

If you bought games online, you should have receipts backed up somewhere. For instance Battle.net saves purchase history, you could print that out for both your accounts. Check your old emails for receipts as well if you haven't already.

Write something explaining your relationship for this question as well (a short "essay"). Something heartfelt and personal.

Some other things you can include: your airline tickets, letters from friends or family who are helping you out or are aware of your relationship, if you haven't already go set up a joint bank account and provide a statement as evidence, joint rental agreements, bills, hotel receipts etc.

What you should also show proof of, if you guys are not employed, is how you two intend to support yourselves. There is no minimum income requirement but CIC will want to know how you will survive without needing social assistance.

 

[Michael.G]

First of all, thank you both for the responses. I have been considering the option of opening a joint bank account for practical purposes already, but now the decision is practically cemented.

First of all, don't apply inland if you can avoid it. Outland is at least half the time of inland, and you don't have to worry about your application getting cancelled if you want to leave the country. You can apply outland while living in Canada.

I assume that if I have to leave the country for any reason, my inland application would be voided? I am planning on having my visit (ending in late February) extended and, as I understand it, would have implied status until a decision on my sponsorship application is made... unless I am denied the extension and would have to leave the country. If I apply outland (from inland), can I write my Canadian address on the forms? Also, can I still extend my visit and stay on implied status until a decision is made?

Another issue that continues to come up is the question of where I am "living". I have been staying with my wife since the beginning of my visit in August '15 - as far as I can tell, this counts as "living in Canada" even though I am only a visitor to Canada and my permanent address would technically be back in Germany. Am I correct?

 

[Aquakitty]

First of all, thank you both for the responses. I have been considering the option of opening a joint bank account for practical purposes already, but now the decision is practically cemented.
I assume that if I have to leave the country for any reason, my inland application would be voided? I am planning on having my visit (ending in late February) extended and, as I understand it, would have implied status until a decision on my sponsorship application is made... unless I am denied the extension and would have to leave the country. If I apply outland (from inland), can I write my Canadian address on the forms? Also, can I still extend my visit and stay on implied status until a decision is made?

Another issue that continues to come up is the question of where I am "living". I have been staying with my wife since the beginning of my visit in August '15 - as far as I can tell, this counts as "living in Canada" even though I am only a visitor to Canada and my permanent address would technically be back in Germany. Am I correct?

The inland app is not voided unless you are denied re-entry into Canada, but that is the risk (albeit probably small) that goes with an inland application. The bigger concern is the amount of time inland takes.

Yes you are correct about the address. You should put your current address in Canada for mailing and home address even though it is an outland application. You are a visitor while residing in Canada, it's called "dual intent". http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/temp/visa/dual.asp

There is no implied status for outland applications. The implied status actually comes from the work permit application with an inland application, not the inland app itself. However, you just need to extend your visitor status before it expires to have implied status while waiting for your PR. You can do that online (apply to change conditions or extend your stay as a visitor). I suggest applying soon if your status expires in Feb (the rule of thumb is to apply about 30 days before the expiration date of your current status).

 

[mollybloom]

I was a visitor in Canada for six months before applying for my PR and OWP. During this time, my husband and I established ourselves and got everything together that we needed to apply. I did leave the country by car during my application's processing, but I brought all my documentation with me to simplify the border crossing process (this includes marriage license, receipts to show that my documents are processing, any mail or email correspondence with the CIC, etc.). I never had a problem.

While waiting in Canada for your status, you really need to ensure that you're adhering to immigration law. No working! I made that mistake by babysitting (who would have thought that'd be considered real work) and was almost made to leave the country. I didn't understand the severity of the rules and wish someone had told me everything that I know now.

 

[Michael.G]

Thank you for the advice - we are now looking into doing an Outland application.

This will mean having to manually apply for a visitation extension, the forms for which I have been looking at. I assume I would be applying to extend my "temporary resident status" and that the current purpose of my visit would be along the lines of "Other: applying for FC sponsorship". I am supposed to indicate the dates of my intended stay in Canada;
- For "From", do I indicate the date of my last entry to Canada or the date of my extension (e.g. when my visitor status would end)?
- More importantly, for "To", what sort of date would I even indicate? I couldn't even predict so much as the year when a decision on the sponsorship application will be made.

 

[TracyCa64]

Thank you for the advice - we are now looking into doing an Outland application.

This will mean having to manually apply for a visitation extension, the forms for which I have been looking at. I assume I would be applying to extend my "temporary resident status" and that the current purpose of my visit would be along the lines of "Other: applying for FC sponsorship". I am supposed to indicate the dates of my intended stay in Canada;
- For "From", do I indicate the date of my last entry to Canada or the date of my extension (e.g. when my visitor status would end)?
- More importantly, for "To", what sort of date would I even indicate? I couldn't even predict so much as the year when a decision on the sponsorship application will be made.

For the "From", you want to put the date your status expires. For the "To", you can put a year. If you can show them that you have a PR application filed they most likely approve a year. Even if they give you 6 months you can extend again.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/visitor.asp

There is a questionaire on this link to see if you are eligible to apply online. Applying online is easy & I think faster. I recently applied for my extension online, so if you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

[Michael.G]

Thank you so much for the advice. I've been looking into applying online now. Unfortunately, it does not appear as though we will be able to hand in the sponsorship application more than 30 days before my visitation period ends, so I won't be able to include proof of submitted application. (I'm not even sure what kind of proof I would receive.)

Last I checked, CIC claims Outland applications take 26 months to process. If I applied to stay until 2019, might they deny it but still allow a shorter period (of 6 months, for instance) on that application, or would I need to apply again?

 

[TracyCa64]

Thank you so much for the advice. I've been looking into applying online now. Unfortunately, it does not appear as though we will be able to hand in the sponsorship application more than 30 days before my visitation period ends, so I won't be able to include proof of submitted application. (I'm not even sure what kind of proof I would receive.)

Last I checked, CIC claims Outland applications take 26 months to process. If I applied to stay until 2019, might they deny it but still allow a shorter period (of 6 months, for instance) on that application, or would I need to apply again?

I have read that you can't always go by the time frame that is listed. If it were me, I would ask for 6-12 months and the reason would be visit Canada while applying for PR. Let's say they approve 6 months, then start working on your application within that time. Then when you apply for another extension you will give the reason that your PR application is in process and you would like to stay in Canada with your wife while you are waiting for your PR. At that time you could ask for a year. You will just need to keep applying for extensions after that depending on how long it takes for PR.

Hopefully one of the VIP members here can give some advice as well. I am only going by what my experience has been.

Is Germany a visa exempt country?