Leon please help me : Renewing Permanent Resident

[aaront]

Please someone help me understand this.

At the age of 10,I was removed from Canada by my parents. I had no choice. I am turning 18 this July and I plan on hopefully getting a travel document, if it works because my PR expired :/, and ask to renew my PR Card, but heres thing I was looking at the PR application, and all it states are 3 cases

1- You were outside Canada, with a person with a PR
2- You were with a Person working in a Canadian company,firm etc..
3- You were with someone to which both of the above apply

I don't see my case here, how am I supposed to apply to renew my PR if none of these apply to me?

 

[CharlieD10]

Re: Renewing Permanent Resident

If the PR card you were issued on arrival the first time is expired, and you are outside Canada and want to return, your first priority is to get a Travel Document that will permit you to return to Canada. You need to first make the case for being allowed back in before you can get a new PR card.

 

[aaront]

Thanks for replying! Yeah but what I'm saying is that say I got a travel document and entered Canada and planned to renew my PR, am I able to do that without meeting the conditions stated above? and on what basis?

- Say, I got a TD and entered Canada and asked to renew my PR,is it possible for them to refuse renewing it? and then maybe ask me to leave the country?

 

[CharlieD10]

You need to wait until you can show that you have met your Residency Obligation (RO) before applying to renew your PR card. If you are granted a Travel Document, the Visa Office that issues it is agreeing that you have not lost your permanent resident status. So, if you get the TD, come to Canada, and wait two years (at minimum) and then apply to re-new your PR card, you should not be refused, as you have demonstrated that in the last 5 years you have met your RO.

If you apply for a new PR card immediately after returning to Canada using a TD, you leave yourself open to having your application rejected because they will examine the 5 year period prior to the application and see that you have not met your RO. In that case, you CAN be asked to leave the country, and will need to appeal.

If you get a TD, come to Canada, sit tight for the next two years, get on with your life (believe me, I have been here for two years and haven't needed my PR card for anything) and apply for your new PR card when you can show you have fulfilled your RO.

 

[aaront]

1- Can I not apply for my PR on the same basis using Humanitarian and Compassionate grounds? It wasn't my decision and I was forced to leave because of my parents and now I am using the most recent opportunity to return?

2- I mean if the Travel Document official that dealt with my application didn't think I was worthy,he wouldn't have provided me with the TD in the first no? so as I said can I not apply on the same basis?

3- I am going to Canada to study there for my university will that not create a major issue for me,not having a PR? tuition fees etc..

4- What do you mean by appeal?

 

[CharlieD10]

1- Can I not apply for my PR on the same basis using Humanitarian and Compassionate grounds? It wasn't my decision and I was forced to leave because of my parents and now I am using the most recent opportunity to return?

2- I mean if the Travel Document official that dealt with my application didn't think I was worthy,he wouldn't have provided me with the TD in the first no? so as I said can I not apply on the same basis?

3- I am going to Canada to study there for my university will that not create a major issue for me,not having a PR? tuition fees etc..

4- What do you mean by appeal?

1 - You don't need to apply for PR again if you had it before and had no say in the matter when you were removed from the country. What you need to do is show that your status as a PR was placed in jeopardy through no fault of your own, and that you are now taking the first opportunity available to you to re-claim your status as a PR. That is what you do when you apply for the TD. If you get a TD, it means that they agree with you that you have not lost your PR status. You then need to secure that status by returning to Canada immediately, and complying with your Residency Obligation by spending 730 days in the country (minimum).

2 - Do you already have a TD? If you do, I am confused by why you think you need to apply for PR again. You only get a Travel Document if you are a Canadian Permanent Resident who is outside of Canada, needs to return, and for some reason or other does not have a PR card to demonstrate their status as a PR. Please clarify whether you have a TD already or not.

3. - Having a PR card is not the only way to prove you are a permanent resident. If you have a TD, and are returning to Canada so you can study, then what you should do immediately after arriving is apply for proof of your permanent resident status such as a copy of your Record of Landing or your Confirmation of Permanent Residence (if that is what was given when you landed). These are separate documents from your PR card, and can be used to substantiate your status as a PR and that you are entitled to the appropriate fee structure when you go to university/college.

4. If you are reported for failure to comply with your residency obligation, you may appeal to the Immigration Appeal Board to review this decision.

 

[aaront]

Sorry what I meant to say is that can I not apply to Renew my PR Card on the same basis that it was not my fault for staying out Canada? I I meant Renew my PR not apply again. What you're saying is that, the basis on which I got my TD have nothing to do with me Renewing my PR Card? Do you mean they'll check my RO and not the conditions on why I was outside the country?re the chances of my refusal high?

About the education, will I also be treated as a PR, in other cases like medical assurance, Can I get my driving license? CAN I WORK? Will I be treated like a PR citizen basically? etc.. even though my Card is expired?

And not yet, I do not have a TD but I need to know what to do. I'm applying for H&C as a minor removed form Canada and that was beyond my powers. Pray for me :/

 

[CharlieD10]

No, you can't apply to renew your PR card on that basis. It works only for a TD. To complete the PR card renewal form, it is to your advantage to have two years of Canadian residency on that form so they see that when it was up to you, you immediately took steps to comply with the residency obligation. That is why you don't want to rush into applying for a PR card as soon as you arrive.

According to CIC's website:

The permanent resident card (PR card) is the official proof that you are a permanent resident of Canada. You use this wallet-sized plastic card to show you can enter and stay in Canada when you return from another country.

If you do not plan to leave Canada, you do not need the card.

CIC's view is that you only need the card if you want to leave the country, so why would they give it to someone who hasn't been in the country for the past 5 years, and hasn't demonstrated that he intends to comply with his residency obligation? It's not a visa, it's a status document. There are other ways to prove your PR status in the meanwhile.

I have needed my PR card all of once since I landed two years ago, and it was so I could board a flight from New York to come back to Canada. For applying for work, as long as I answered YES to the question "Are you able to legally work in Canada", the employers did not question me further or request proof of my status beyond asking for a Social Insurance Number (SIN). The SIN I got the day after I landed, using my passport and Confirmation of Permanent Residence. Those were also the two pieces of "ID" I used to open a bank account and apply for my driver's licence and Ontario Health Insurance Programme (OHIP) card.

Apply for your TD first. Make sure you make your case for H&C consideration clearly. That is the first hurdle, unless you clear it, everything else is speculation. Don't worry about what comes after, focus your effort on making the case for the Travel Document.

 

[Alurra71]

Actually if his TD is issued under, I believe, rc1, he can immediately apply for his PR card upon return to Canada.

 

[Leon]

If you are given a TD on H&C grounds based on for example being removed from Canada as a minor and returning first chance as an adult, immigration should respect that and renew your PR card. However, it may not be a straight forward application and you may not get it as fast as a normal renewal and an interview may be required.

However, you don't necessarily need a PR card. You should be able to do most things with your landing papers and expired card. If you stay for 2 years before you apply to renew your card, it would be a normal renewal because you would meet the residency requirements again.

Keep in mind that having been granted a TD does not mean that your absences are forgiven and that you have a brand new PR and the right to stay outside Canada for another 3 years. If you end up in the situation that you have renewed your PR card but still don't meet the RO and you leave Canada and your PR card is lost, stolen or destroyed, immigration will not grant you a new TD so fast. They will tell you that they already gave you one and if you didn't use it to go settle in Canada, too bad for you.

 

[aaront]

@ CharlieD10 You know I think you're right I'm not gonna risk losing my permanent resident status. The main reason I wanna get my PR so bad is so I can travel back to my family when I need to. Otherwise I'm planning on staying in Canada for the next 10 - 15 years??? I'm doing medicine you see so I plan on staying, hopefully get the citizenship. I'm also planning on placing a lawyer to see through my affairs, do you think it's a good idea? Do you think that being a minor and I'm grabbing the first chance to go back to Canada and that I'm planning on staying there for several years and build a life there is a considerable H&C case?

@ Leon thank you for replying. If I get back to Canada, and I'm contacting a lawyer and hopefully let him handle my case. I don't wanna risk anything, if he wants me to stay for 2 years, I'll stay if he suggests something otherwise I'll do what he recommends. I'm doing medicine so I plan on staying in Canada for several years (10 - 15 actually) I just want my PR to be able to see my family and not be forced into staying in Canada for 2 years, but it's all right I talked to my parents and they're okay with it. Do you think appointing a lawyer is a good idea?

@ Alurra71 what do you mean by rc1?

 

[Leon]

You can appoint a lawyer if it makes you feel better but it will not make or break your case and lawyers do not always give good advice anyway.

Staying for 2 years is a good idea because you will then meet the RO again and nobody has anything on you. If you leave before you meet the RO, it is a risk to you if you lose your PR card or it is stolen or destroyed but it is up to you if you take that risk. Nobody is forcing you to stay. You can leave any time you want.

 

[aaront]

have you seen cases,being a minor like me, where people apply for renewal as soon as they're in Canada and it's no problem? and I mean you're an expert at this so what do you recommend me doing? thank you again!

 

[CharlieD10]

My tuppence: if you get the TD, focus on getting settled in Canada. You say you have long-term plans, believe me when I say two years goes by very quickly and that will be the minimum you need just to get yourself sorted.

Yes, you could probably get a new PR card soon after being granted a TD because they have looked at your case favourably, and go home to visit your parents without issue. Or, you could find that you leave Canada, and come back with your shiny new PR card and some Border Services Officer takes a look at your absences from Canada and decides you plan to use PR status as an expedited visa (regardless of your long-term plans) and reports you for failing to meet the residency obligation, and you find yourself fighting to keep what you had to work for in the first place. Call me a pessimist, but I always like to think about the worst-case scenario, instead of just hoping for the best. This isn't to say it will happen, just that it is within the reasonable range of possibilities.

However, as I said before, all this is speculation until you make a case for being granted the TD. Focus your efforts there first, and deal with what comes next after.

 

[aaront]

Do you think there's a chance I can get my TD?
Like what do you think I should tell them to support the fact I left Canada at 10 and now I wanna return asap other than required documents? You know how you have to write a letter to support your H&C claim, am I supposed to write it in a way to make them feel sorry for me and see that it was actually not might fault and I would be negatively affected if I stayed here? Because well I didn't apply to any other universities except in Canada, and my parents cant afford to send me there if it's full tuition so I know I made a mistake of risking everything on whetehr I get my TD or not but I mean what can you do what's done is done. + I have family there so I thought about adding that as well, what do you think? and thank you so much for actually enlightening me I was planning on renewing it as soon as I got into Canada and planned everything on that basis but thanks again I talked to my parents and everything okay.

Last thing, about the citizenship, do you think they'll grant me it after staying there for over 3 years? I know I should be focusing on my TD but I can't help but worry