Just getting married and looking for the absolute best path/option for PR

[shanernewman]

Hello,

I am marrying my fiancee soon who is from Mexico. She is in Canada on a visitor visa which is valid until 2020 (although she has to leave Canada and come back every 6 months to renew.). She has a university degree, is in perfect health, and has no criminal record. I have a good job and am able to support the both of us fairly easily.

What I am wondering is, what is the best path for us to take for obtaining her PR? Optimally she *would* like to work as soon as possible since sitting around doing nothing would drive her insane. Her leaving the country and going back to Mexico for an extended length of time is not really an option as we want to stay together. I would much rather have my sole income than have her back in Mexico working. Should we do inland sponsorship and apply for the pilot program OWP? Should we apply outland? We realize that if we do inland, she can't really leave the country until it's complete, but the plus is that the pilot program would have her working a lot quicker than applying outland. Help! What should we do?

Thanks!!

 

[OhCanadiana]

Hello,

I am marrying my fiancee soon who is from Mexico. She is in Canada on a visitor visa which is valid until 2020 (although she has to leave Canada and come back every 6 months to renew.). She has a university degree, is in perfect health, and has no criminal record. I have a good job and am able to support the both of us fairly easily.

What I am wondering is, what is the best path for us to take for obtaining her PR? Optimally she *would* like to work as soon as possible since sitting around doing nothing would drive her insane. Her leaving the country and going back to Mexico for an extended length of time is not really an option as we want to stay together. I would much rather have my sole income than have her back in Mexico working. Should we do inland sponsorship and apply for the pilot program OWP? Should we apply outland? We realize that if we do inland, she can't really leave the country until it's complete, but the plus is that the pilot program would have her working a lot quicker than applying outland. Help! What should we do?

Thanks,
Shane

Hi! Welcome, Shane =)

A key uncertainty with the new pilot program is whether the estimated time for the applicant to get the OWP is whether it counts from when CIC receives the application in the mail (while it goes through the mail room process and waits to be opened) or whether the timing counts from when the application is reviewed and assessed to be a complete application and CIC issues an Acknowledgement of Receipt. Those two points in time can be quite different. For most purposes, CIC starts the clock when the AoR is issued.

Therefore, I'm inclined to suggest that you seriously consider applying 'outland' (via the Mexico Visa Office) since you have a real shot of completing the entire process in approximately the same amount of time it would take to just get the work permit in an inland application. CIC in fact suggests people consider applying outland even if they are in Canada in their instruction guide for 'inland' applications.

One other thing: she doesn't need to leave Canada to renew her visitor visa. She can apply for an extension via http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/extend-stay.asp. If you end up applying for an extension after you've applied it helps to include proof that you've paid the fees and submitted the PR application (since, as I mentioned above) it takes time for the application to be registered in the system.

 

[shanernewman]

Therefore, I'm inclined to suggest that you seriously consider applying 'outland' (via the Mexico Visa Office) since you have a real shot of completing the entire process in approximately the same amount of time it would take to just get the work permit in an inland application.

Really?? It looks like processing times when applying through Mexico are sitting at about 17 months right now. I thought the pilot program was supposed to be issuing work permits within a few months. Is it possible to have PR in less than 17 months when applying outland?

 

[OhCanadiana]

Really?? It looks like processing times when applying through Mexico are sitting at about 17 months right now. I thought the pilot program was supposed to be issuing work permits within a few months. Is it possible to have PR in less than 17 months when applying outland?

Absolutely possible.

If you take a look at CIC's website for Family Class sponsorship, you'll see an 18 month timing published. That timing is often perceived as an average, but it is actually how long it takes them to complete processing for 80% of applications, not the average processing time (or minimum). At the top of the table it says:

The tables below indicate application processing times at Canadian visa offices once Step 1 has been completed. The times are based on how long it took to process 80 percent of all cases between January 1, 2014 to December 31, 2014. Processing times are subject to change.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/times/perm/fc-spouses.asp

To get more granular data, you need to look at The Open Data project which details the data further. In the latest 12 months available, Oct 1 2013 - Sept 30 2014, the fastest 20% of applications were completed in 6 months at the Mexico City VO (Visa Office). 50% were completed in 12 months (so 12 months is the median). And 80% of applications were processed in 18 months.

2010 2011 2012 2013 Latest 12 months available
Oct 1 2013 - Sept 30 2014
20% 50% 80% # 20% 50% 80% # 20% 50% 80% # 20% 50% 80% # 20% 50% 80% #
Mexico City 4 7 15 462 5 7 13 582 7 9 13 516 8 11 16 591 6 12 18 1,292
Source: http://open.canada.ca/data/en/dataset/427337d0-7c36-4fed-8428-c6a63f8c19b3.

You do need to add step 1 (done in Mississauga) to these figures, but that is much faster than step 2. Currently CIC publishes that 80% of apps have step 1 completed in 82 days.

 

[shanernewman]

Well..... wow, thank you. I didn't even know about this. That really changes everything for us. Wow. I guess my next question would be, what are some common red flags we should worry about? She has been in and out of Canada quite a bit in the past few years (she would go back to Mexico, work, then enter Canada quite frequently). She also had a temporary work permit here for a year (but only used it for about nine months and had to go back to Mexico for family). We are also getting married in a town hall ceremony this Friday with friends, but have a giant ceremony planned for July. The plan was just so we could apply now and speed up the process. Absolutely nothing illegal or even shady. Just a few more things for them to look into. We've already traveled the world, live together, have joint bank accounts, and I pretty much support her now. We can pretty much document everything. I'm just worried that there's just some stupid small thing we'll forget that would cause a delay. Any help would be amazing. Thanks again so much!

 

[OhCanadiana]

Well..... wow, thank you. I didn't even know about this. That really changes everything for us. Wow. I guess my next question would be, what are some common red flags we should worry about? She has been in and out of Canada quite a bit in the past few years (she would go back to Mexico, work, then enter Canada quite frequently). She also had a temporary work permit here for a year (but only used it for about nine months and had to go back to Mexico for family). We are also getting married in a town hall ceremony this Friday with friends, but have a giant ceremony planned for July. The plan was just so we could apply now and speed up the process. Absolutely nothing illegal or even shady. Just a few more things for them to look into. We've already traveled the world, live together, have joint bank accounts, and I pretty much support her now. We can pretty much document everything. I'm just worried that there's just some stupid small thing we'll forget that would cause a delay. Any help would be amazing. Thanks again so much!

You're welcome.

Imagine you don't know yourself, your fiancee, your relationship. Now imagine you have to be skeptical because in the past other applicants have exaggerated, lied (yes, lied) about their relationship (and gone to great lengths to do so ... this includes photos of staged weddings, etc).

Would you be convinced that the application that crosses your desk really is in a genuine relationship (and not getting married because your wife wants to move to Canada)?

If so, then submit plenty of documentation (photos, letters, etc) and you should be ok. If not, think about how to address the areas that would give a skeptical stranger pause (e.g., significant differences in age, language barriers, educational differences, cultural differences). In your case, you want to include photos of your world travels, your wedding Friday (congrats!!!) including showing friends that joined in and items that show you made it special, proof of joint bank accounts you mentioned and other documentation you may have.

One more Mexico-VO specific suggestion: you cannot apply for the Mexican police certificate (from the PGR) without a request letter from a government entity (Mexico is one of the exceptions to the rule that police certirficates must be sent upfront). Therefore, the easiest would probably be for you to mail all the requirements to the Canadian Embassy in Mexico and ask them to process it for her (as if she was living abroad). See http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/security/police-cert/north-america/mexico.asp for the requirements you need to mail the Embassy. Also have your wife look at the photo requirements at http://www.pgr.gob.mx/Servicios/Constancia/antecedentes%20registrales.asp (in Spanish). Since your wife already has a UCI (Universal Client ID #) as she has applied for a visa before, you can submit the documents to Mexico as soon as you submit the application (if she doesn't know it, have her call CIC and ask for it both for the application and for the PGR request). That way, you ensure you won't have any delays incurred from the PGR (as long as the Embassy does process it for her).

 

[gsize]

careful what you wish for.

My Mexican partner was here in Canada with me. We applied outland. He went back home to work and wait it out.

Had an interview,,,,,,and DENIED. We appealed the decision and won........he is back with me........total time 5 years !!!!!

If I only knew what I know now......I would have never let him leave.

Best wishes !

 

[DanSlh]

careful what you wish for.

My Mexican partner was here in Canada with me. We applied outland. He went back home to work and wait it out.

Had an interview,,,,,,and DENIED. We appealed the decision and won........he is back with me........total time 5 years !!!!!

If I only knew what I know now......I would have never let him leave.

Best wishes !

And why she get denied? Share with us

 

[shanernewman]

careful what you wish for.

My Mexican partner was here in Canada with me. We applied outland. He went back home to work and wait it out.

Had an interview,,,,,,and DENIED. We appealed the decision and won........he is back with me........total time 5 years !!!!!

If I only knew what I know now......I would have never let him leave.

Best wishes !

Hi Gsize, thanks for your response. What was the reason you were denied? Why did it take 5 years!? Even if we apply outland, she is staying here in Canada with me as her visitors visa is valid until 2020. I make enough so there's no need for her to go back and work.

 

[gsize]

And why she get denied? Share with us

'not genuine" it happens a lot

 

[gsize]

Hi Gsize, thanks for your response. What was the reason you were denied? Why did it take 5 years!? Even if we apply outland, she is staying here in Canada with me as her visitors visa is valid until 2020. I make enough so there's no need for her to go back and work.

The VO woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

They do as they please. It took 5 years because waiting time for hearing date in Toronto is about 28 months. Then it goes to Ottawa or back to Mexico to be reprocessed once again. They lost our file for 5 months and then had problems getting the PGR. Also 2 years ago, we had work slowdowns at many embassies.

Im sure the vast majority go through with little problem. We were some of the unlucky ones ! Based on several years observing, I would say 80 % go through with little or no problem. Just hope you are not one of the 20 % unlucky ones.

Another Corona por favor !

 

[shanernewman]

The VO woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

They do as they please. It took 5 years because waiting time for hearing date in Toronto is about 28 months. Then it goes to Ottawa or back to Mexico to be reprocessed once again. They lost our file for 5 months and then had problems getting the PGR. Also 2 years ago, we had work slowdowns at many embassies.

Im sure the vast majority go through with little problem. We were some of the unlucky ones ! Based on several years observing, I would say 80 % go through with little or no problem. Just hope you are not one of the 20 % unlucky ones.

Another Corona por favor !

Oh wow, that's terrible. Luckily we have tons of documentation to prove that we're in a very genuine relationship, including pets, living situation, bank account, travel documentation, etc. We also have well over 100 references from friends and family which could testify that we are absolutely in a genuine relationship. I couldn't imagine that they would rule it "not genuine".

 

[OhCanadiana]

I remember when your common-law partner was approved, gsize! How time flies! How is he adjusting to life in Canada?

 

[OhCanadiana]

Oh wow, that's terrible. Luckily we have tons of documentation to prove that we're in a very genuine relationship, including pets, living situation, bank account, travel documentation, etc. We also have well over 100 references from friends and family which could testify that we are absolutely in a genuine relationship. I couldn't imagine that they would rule it "not genuine".

Sounds like you're pulling together a solid application already, Shane. I don't know that you need to include 100 references (!) but a few letters from them addressed to both of you over time could be helpful. Photos over time do as well (as the pet has grown if you got him/her as a puppy, hair has grown / been cut, different seasons, etc).

Also, in contrast to the case mentioned, you and your wife have been consistently spending time together and will continue to do so during the application and I infer that your wife likely speaks English.

 

[shanernewman]

Sounds like you're pulling together a solid application already, Shane. I don't know that you need to include 100 references (!) but a few letters from them addressed to both of you over time could be helpful. Photos over time do as well (as the pet has grown if you got him/her as a puppy, hair has grown / been cut, different seasons, etc).

Also, in contrast to the case mentioned, you and your wife have been consistently spending time together and will continue to do so during the application and I infer that your wife likely speaks English.

So in a digital age we don't really have much *physical* mail addressed to us (although we do have a wedding invite from last year). We have a metric ton of emails though about everything from weekend plans to travelling which are for both of us. I'm just worried about including emails as someone could rule them as easily faked (although they absolutely aren't!). Should we include reference letters from our friends and family confirming that we're in a genuine relationship? That would be easy and we could include as many as reasonably needed. Also, she speaks perfect English (better than most native speakers).

One thing I just thought about which may cause a problem though. Last year she was denied a student visa on the grounds that the visa officer didn't believe she would leave the country after her study period had ended. In all fairness that is 100% true since we were planning on applying for spousal PR half way through her study period anyways. We didn't appeal the decision and decided to just go for spousal PR. I was on the original student application though with a letter saying that she was living with me and I was helping her with expenses since we were in a relationship. So at the very least, I guess it establishes that we actually were in a relationship back then too? I am worried that one rejected student application could hurt us in the long run.... but logically it doesn't seem like it would. What are your thoughts?