IT worker confused about 0213 - Computer and Information Systems Managers

[perring]

I did a lot of research on this topic at this forum and the Internet but am
still confused whether I would qualify to apply under this classification. I
found some threads on here regarding this topic but still not clear. I would really
appreciate your help.

My background: I have been a "System Administrator" or "Network
Administrator" (in USA) for more than 12 years working for 3 different companies. The
titles were never really an official thing. When I was hired, I just did my job and was not given
an official title. At these employers, I was not considered a manager in terms of
being a supervisor. However, I was the GUY when it came to implementing new
technologies, network, servers, etc. I basically "managed" the network/system.
I didn't manage any personnel.

Now, I would like to immigrate to Canada (Vancouver) to be closer to my
girlfriend. We are very committed to each other but do not want to get
married yet. I know that getting hired by a Canadian company would be the fastest
way to get into Canada but that would be tough now with the current state of the economy.
So, the second best route is via the Federal Skilled Worker (FSW) program.
Am I correct? Or is there a better way for committed couple?

Anyway, when I was looking into applying under the FSW program early
last year (2008), and it was not a problem because I would qualify under many
different titles (NOC # 2281, LAN Manager). Now, with the new "38 Qualifying Occupations" list,
almost all the titles have the word "Manager" next to it. So, I have a few questions.

1)At the Canadavisa.com website, I see the info below with regards to the list "0213" on
the "38 Qualifying Occupations". I know this site is not official, but would I qualify if I apply
under "2281 LAN Managers" based on my background? Where did canadavisa.com get this info?
And is it legitimate?

********************************************
Applicants with experience in the following occupations may also be
considered under this NOC depending on the specifics of the main duties performed:

* Computer and information systems supervisors (in 217 Computer and Information Systems Professionals)
* Computer Engineers (Except Software Engineers and Designers) (2147)
* Computer Programmers and Interactive Media Developers (2174)
* Computer services company presidents (in 0013 Senior Managers -Financial, Communications and Other Business Services)
* Database Analysts and Data Administrators (2172)
* Information Systems Analysts and Consultants (2171)
* LAN managers (in 2281 Computer Network Technicians)
* Software Engineers and Designers (2173)
***************************************************

2) If the above is not reliable, then under the list for "0213" titles example, would I
qualify as "systems manager – computer systems"?

3) If I qualify with both of the above, "2281 LAN Managers" or "0213 Systems manager - computer systems",
which one should I apply under? I suppose that "0213" is better because it's official?

I am now stressed about this. Thank you very much for your advice.

 

[perring]

That list of related noc codes you have listed under question 1 comes from the NOC matrix website. What NOC matrix website is saying is that if you are not in a given NOC code, they are listing similar NOC codes that have some common duties. Putting down a code that is not on the 38 official list is a sure way of being declined.

You do not qualiy under 2281. Forget about the title for now. Look under the main duties under 0213 and see if you do most of those duties, you qualify.

I am a program teaching assistant. According to the title, i am not in the 38 occupation list, but my duties were similar to the college instructor job and I applied under that and guess what, Sydney NS agreed that I qualify. Well the visa office might still decline my application but i am through the first round.

Secondly, the cost of application (to Sydney) is not high. I know you pay CAD550 but if you don't qualify during the Sydney stage, you get the money back (although after 6 months).

Hope that helps.

rupeshhari,

Thank you! Your answer really clarifies my confusion as I was too hung up on the titles. I will look over the "0213" duty description and go with whatever I'm close to...

 

[jtob]

dear rupesh,

i have a question i hope you can help me with.

did you apply under NOC 4131 college instructor?

did your visa office ask for a masteral degree for this occupation?

it says in the instruction guide that they may require a masteral degree for this occupation and i need to know what my chances are if i apply as a college instructor without a masters degree.

thanks.

 

[jawadahmad77]

Paerring,

Rupeshhari guided you very well, but its better to choose any designation under 0213. That list also listed under official site of immigration www.cic.gc.ca, not just canadavisa.com, i am also applying under same NOC soon as i am already working as IT Manager in a company over here.

Regards,

J...

 

[perring]

Paerring,

Rupeshhari guided you very well, but its better to choose any designation under 0213. That list also listed under official site of immigration www.cic.gc.ca, not just canadavisa.com, i am also applying under same NOC soon as i am already working as IT Manager in a company over here.

Regards,

J...

jawadahmad77,

Thank you. Yes, I know about the list from www.cic.gc.ca. Are you supervising other personnel? If so, your case is easy. As for me, like I mentioned in previous post, I am not supervising anyone. And from the look of the description under "0213", they seem to want a real "manager". When I type up my letter, I really have to choose my words carefully.

Do you think I would qualify according to the brief explanation of my background?

Any other System or Network Administrators applying under "0213"? Please help.

thank you!

 

[jawadahmad77]

You can choose any of these occupation my Friend, even if you are not supervising any thing but if you think that any of job or duty description meet according to your job you are doing at the moment, select that.

Again give a look on that detail list under 0213 NOC, for sure you will find. Like for me i am working as IT Manager, and i have many designation in this list i can mention. Then i have to ask for my office Administration to update my experience letter as well since i am doing same duties on my job.

Hope you got my point.

Regards,

J...

 

[perring]

You can choose any of these occupation my Friend, even if you are not supervising any thing but if you think that any of job or duty description meet according to your job you are doing at the moment, select that.

Again give a look on that detail list under 0213 NOC, for sure you will find. Like for me i am working as IT Manager, and i have many designation in this list i can mention. Then i have to ask for my office Administration to update my experience letter as well since i am doing same duties on my job.

Hope you got my point.

Regards,

J...

Are you also managing people in your field?

See, your title is already "manager" while mine is not. I have already looked over the "0213" description many time and a "system or network administrator" does not look promising....

 

[jawadahmad77]

Please tell me what designation you are working on right now or from at least 1 year, because they are putting one condition that person should must have at least 1 year of experience in one of these occupations.

Then we can look proper title for u i believe, don't worry after watching what you had done in your experiences, you will surely qualify.

Regards,

J...

 

[perring]

Please tell me what designation you are working on right now or from at least 1 year, because they are putting one condition that person should must have at least 1 year of experience in one of these occupations.

Then we can look proper title for u i believe, don't worry after watching what you had done in your experiences, you will surely qualify.

Regards,

J...

I think the closest designation under "0213", for me, would be either one of these:

computer networks manager
computer system operations manager
computer systems manager
systems manager – computer systems

What do you think would fit for a "system administrator" or "network administrator"? This is what I wrote in the original post.

"My background: I have been a "System Administrator" or "Network
Administrator" (in USA) for more than 12 years working for 3 different companies. The
titles were never really an official thing. When I was hired, I just did my job and was not given
an official title. At these employers, I was not considered a manager in terms of
being a supervisor. However, I was the GUY when it came to implementing new
technologies, network, servers, etc. I basically "managed" the network/system.
I didn't manage any personnel."

thank you! I really appreciate your help.

 

[jawadahmad77]

I think, computer networks manager is the nearest since you are working as Network Administrator, but you have to convince your employer to give you any experience letter stating the same designation you are going to mention in your application. Or any of previous companies where you have at least work for 1 year on same position. Even you can send a cover letter too that your job description is same but designation couldn't meet as same. But still, why to go after something which create doubt.

For peace of mind have that experience letter which shows same designation as per your given title in application.

Hope you got my point.

Regards,

J...

 

[perring]

I took a look at this post with regards to "manager"...and it does not look promising for me, a system or network admin.

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/noc-0213-question-t12637.0.html

 

[perring]

I think, computer networks manager is the nearest since you are working as Network Administrator, but you have to convince your employer to give you any experience letter stating the same designation you are going to mention in your application. Or any of previous companies where you have at least work for 1 year on same position. Even you can send a cover letter too that your job description is same but designation couldn't meet as same. But still, why to go after something which create doubt.

For peace of mind have that experience letter which shows same designation as per your given title in application.

Hope you got my point.

Regards,

J...

Thank you. I think I can produce this letter of reference from one of my past employers / supervisors.

To add to the confusion, does my previous employer has to be in the IT field? The letter of reference that I can produce is from an employer in the manufacturing field.

This is from the noc 0213 description which seems to only want "manager" who work for an IT company.
"Computer and information systems managers plan, organize, direct, control and evaluate the activities of organizations that analyze, design, develop, implement, operate and administer computer and telecommunications software, networks and information systems."

 

[jawadahmad77]

Not at all,

Its not about the company or organization you are working for. They can be in Textile, or IT or ABC, its all about your job description and your designation. I am also working in an exporting firm but we have a complete different IT department.

Hope you are clear. Still you can wait if any one further wanna post something regarding this issue.

Regards,

J...

 

[perring]

Not at all,

Its not about the company or organization you are working for. They can be in Textile, or IT or ABC, its all about your job description and your designation. I am also working in an exporting firm but we have a complete different IT department.

Hope you are clear. Still you can wait if any one further wanna post something regarding this issue.

Regards,

J...

Thanks again for your input. Hopefully someone else would also chime in.

 

[jnathan]

oh ya Perri, I got your mail and now here, seems to be a lively forum.

Experience wise you'll have no problem. the problem you might or might not be having with the

designation, that is Manager. Lots of people talking lots about it. I havent seen anyone said

anything referring to anything said by the Minister about this much discussed issue. Neither

the minister did clarify this issue. but a few CSIC consultants and lawyers are still saying that its

not the designation, its the duties that would be taken into consideration by CIC. but my evaluation is that in your Experience letter, you must write that you had been a Manager. although your manager might have

not done most of the works and may be the managing of the systems(LAN, Network, Info systems,

Servers) to some extent done by you. Manager means leading the tech team and/or managing head

of the systems.

FSW is the best option for you. Look at this link about the sub categories of NOC 0213.
If you fall on any of them, youre way is clear. I am sure being an IT guy, the way you said, you have performed most of the duties, not as a Manager by Designation but as your manager's subordinate. This should be handled by the typewriter of the Expereince letter. you know.

yes, stick to 0213, other codes are not application with FSW.

Good luck.