is it on purpose

[bestofluck]

And how does one decide NOC B is worth 200 while NOC 0 is worth only 50? (or the other way round for that matter?)

How does one decide if having a family member is worth 50 points or if having a job is worth 150?

My point being, all provinces have separate requirements and those too are dynamic - there's no easy way to value one NOC above the other - provincial requirements will change all the time (and at such sudden times that any algorithm following this will always lag behind)

That said, I do agree that providing all jobs the same 600 points is rather redundant as it pretty much guarantees that candidate will get an ITA.

Then again, (playing devil's advocate here) how is that a bad thing? The whole point of EE is to meet the requirements of Canadian provinces so if someone gets a job offer or gets nominated by a province then that means the province has a requirement which is being fulfilled by that candidate - so why would EE try to raise the difficulty of that person getting a PR?

Canada "needs" that person

this is just an example. I am not deciding anything. But how can you keep a COOK and IT Engineer with same marks? only Canada can do that !

I just mean to say have u seen someone getting 621 crs or 589 crs? it should have many categories into which the 600 splits up. I mean you have 435 and u get 600 and get 1035... whats the logic. than why not give 10000000 pints..its the same.

 

[hshringi]

I know you are not deciding anything and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you either

But fact remains EE is meant to serve the Canadian provincial requirements so if they find that they need a cook and not an IT Engineer at this moment then that's who they'll get

Not much we can do I'm afraid

 

[Br33zer]

But fact remains EE is meant to serve the Canadian provincial requirements so if they find that they need a cook and not an IT Engineer at this moment then that's who they'll get

Exactly. It is Canada and her Provinces who will be deciding on the type of skill they want. Even I'm a Software guy but Canada would equate me with a Cook, Sales Clerk or even a Babysitter which in fact are in more demand right now. But I'm not complaining. Just waiting for the ITA and I'm sure I will get one, doesn't matter how long this will take.

 

[bestofluck]

I know you are not deciding anything and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you either

But fact remains EE is meant to serve the Canadian provincial requirements so if they find that they need a cook and not an IT Engineer at this moment then that's who they'll get

Not much we can do I'm afraid

that's exactly what I want to say. if they want cook its good let them give more points to them, at least that gives some logic. Like you give 200 additional points to cook but u cant give same points for education...so by education a Masters in IT get some more points while by NOC cook gets more points and than see who gets more and invite...Everything must count....but here only IELTS counts..thats funny. A cook of USA is more intelligent than Indian cook because Indian cook cant score in IELTS...How much communication skill is required in cooking? its not marketing. they can ask for IELTS scores in marketing not in cooks category.

Anyway we have to accept what it is.

 

[hshringi]

Same here - I'm an IT Sales guy myself but I've still got as good a chance as any of going through

While Canada may not have an immediate requirement for IT sales folks (I presume) and thus I may struggle to get nominated by provinces or get a LMIA job offer, atleast Canada is still giving me a chance to get there purely through my CRS score.

Compare this with other nations (like Australia) and I've got no chance of going there since they are only offering PR to those that have qualifications in their set of job lists (of which IT Sales isn't one)

 

[bestofluck]

Exactly. It is Canada and her Provinces who will be deciding on the type of skill they want. Even I'm a Software guy but Canada would equate me with a Cook, Sales Clerk or even a Babysitter which in fact are in more demand right now. But I'm not complaining. Just waiting for the ITA and I'm sure I will get one, doesn't matter how long this will take.

you are right but a cook from India cant be anything less to cook from USA. IELTS cant make them diff. thats my logic. if they want cook means they want cook.. so for cooks category they can have diff requirements of IELTS say minimum clb 5. But for IT professional they can keep minimum requirement as clb 7....

 

[hshringi]

that's exactly what I want to say. if they want cook its good let them give more points to them, at least that gives some logic. Like you give 200 additional points to cook but u cant give same points for education...so by education a Masters in IT get some more points while by NOC cook gets more points and than see who gets more and invite...Everything must count....but here only IELTS counts..thats funny. A cook of USA is more intelligent than Indian cook because Indian cook cant score in IELTS...How much communication skill is required in cooking? its not marketing. they can ask for IELTS scores in marketing not in cooks category.

Anyway we have to accept what it is.

See that's the thing. Its next to impossible for EE to follow who a province needs at any given time. So maybe they need a Cook right now but perhaps they need a Plumber tomorrow? EE can't keep changing scores that rapidly (and this is just 1 example of 1 province!)

Its far easier for them to simply give equal scores to all people who get nominated / have job offers.

I'm sure Canada would love to have an algorithm as complex as the one you are suggesting but that will also require all provinces to constantly update their requirements into their respective portals - I don't think any province will appreciate the hassle

As for the India vs USA cook analogy - if its not for IELTS and ECA, how do you propose the government should assess who is more qualified?

If you can't even speak the local languages fluently (which is what IELTS is meant to test), how will you communicate with your peers/neighbors/clients/boss/etc?

 

[bestofluck]

See that's the thing. Its next to impossible for EE to follow who a province needs at any given time. So maybe they need a Cook right now but perhaps they need a Plumber tomorrow? EE can't keep changing scores that rapidly (and this is just 1 example of 1 province!)

Its far easier for them to simply give equal scores to all people who get nominated / have job offers.

I'm sure Canada would love to have an algorithm as complex as the one you are suggesting but that will also require all provinces to constantly update their requirements into their respective portals - I don't think any province will appreciate the hassle

As for the India vs USA cook analogy - if its not for IELTS and ECA, how do you propose the government should assess who is more qualified?

If you can't even speak the local languages fluently (which is what IELTS is meant to test), how will you communicate with your peers/neighbors/clients/boss/etc?

no one says go without IELTS. lol .. but a person with 368 jumps to 444 just because of IELTS ....there is something wrong. Ask anyone and he would say improve on your IELTS scores and you will get ITA. IELTS can be just an base to qualify like it can be included in getting 67 points that you need minimum clb 7 to qualify. it cant be included in crs. once you have certain level of english thats all...

 

[Br33zer]

you are right but a cook from India cant be anything less to cook from USA. IELTS cant make them diff. thats my logic. if they want cook means they want cook.. so for cooks category they can have diff requirements of IELTS say minimum clb 5. But for IT professional they can keep minimum requirement as clb 7....

So you imply cooks don't need to speak English? Even with the customers let alone their colleagues or Manager or Neighbours? Why not issue them a Visa by relishing their best dishes at the Visa Office? Why not issue a IT Professional a Visa only because he is great with Computers but can speak only Chinese? Oh yea, above all equate a Cook with Bachelors degree with another Cook who holds a Masters in Nutrition.

Prospective emigrants should understand that this CRS is only a means to enter Canada in equal capacity. Canada does not want to discriminate here. CRS would not give you jobs in Canada.

 

[bestofluck]

So you imply cooks don't need to speak English? Even with the customers let alone their colleagues or Manager or Neighbours? Why not issue them a Visa by relishing their best dishes at the Visa Office? Why not issue a IT Professional a Visa only because he is great with Computers but can speak only Chinese? Oh yea, above all equate a Cook with Bachelors degree with another Cook who holds a Masters in Nutrition.

Prospective emigrants should understand that this CRS is only a means to enter Canada in equal capacity. Canada does not want to discriminate here. CRS would not give you jobs in Canada.

they already have included IELTS in qualifying marks. so no need to include in crs.
yes a computer expert who only knows Chinese is okay if he has minimum clb 5. I never said English is not important, but once you have minimum to qualify yes Chinese expert is always better. I mean u cant neglect him just because of not getting clb 9...

 

[hshringi]

What you aren't understanding is Canada needs folks that are experts in English - not in Chinese

And its not your or my job to decide who they need

Also there's no easy way to judge how good/bad somebody is in a language but I'm pretty sure (mostly - as sometimes one can get lucky) someone who scores a CLB 9 will overall be better in English than someone who is CLB 5

I think that's a pretty decent way to judge someone's ability (even if I'm not the biggest fan of IELTS - I personally think TOEFL is a lot more accurate but hey ho)

 

[JJ777]

they already have included IELTS in qualifying marks. so no need to include in crs.
yes a computer expert who only knows Chinese is okay if he has minimum clb 5. I never said English is not important, but once you have minimum to qualify yes Chinese expert is always better. I mean u cant neglect him just because of not getting clb 9...

Canada is a predominantly English speaking country, so why would you not score more points the better you can speak the official language of the country? The better your language skill of any country, you have a marked increase in adapting to the country and culture.

 

[Asivad Anac]

Canada decides who they need - EE and CRS scale are just an expression of that design.

Canada has determined that the highest indicators of immigrant success are a permanent full-time non seasonal job (with or without provincial support), at least 2 or more post secondary educational credentials, above average language skills (English or French or both) and at least 2 years of verifiable skilled work experience (Canadian or Foreign). In addition to all that, being younger certainly doesn't hurt because you pay taxes for longer than someone who is already 50.

We may rant and rave and disagree with the CRS system but we ranted, raved and disagreed with the previous system's faulty FIFO processing as well. No matter how Canada designs their systems, some immigrants will always feel left out. Because they don't fit the bill of what Canada requires now. But that's the only thing that matters - what Canada requires, Canada does.

 

[bestofluck]

What you aren't understanding is Canada needs folks that are experts in English - not in Chinese

And its not your or my job to decide who they need

Also there's no easy way to judge how good/bad somebody is in a language but I'm pretty sure (mostly - as sometimes one can get lucky) someone who scores a CLB 9 will overall be better in English than someone who is CLB 5

I think that's a pretty decent way to judge someone's ability (even if I'm not the biggest fan of IELTS - I personally think TOEFL is a lot more accurate but hey ho)

How do u calculate 67 points? they give you some points 21, 24, 18....right.( if u don't score much in IELTS you will not qualify getting 67 points) now why you again include in crs when a person already has minimum qualifying marks.

I never said English is not important....but it cant be only IELTS marks, IELTS plus work exp...IELTS plus education..that's ridiculous you give repetitive marks for same thing. once you give IELTS marks you again give with work exp and than again with education...now u also want to add close relative + IELTS.....lol

 

[bestofluck]

Canada decides who they need - EE and CRS scale are just an expression of that design.

Canada has determined that the highest indicators of immigrant success are a permanent full-time non seasonal job (with or without provincial support), at least 2 or more post secondary educational credentials, above average language skills (English or French or both) and at least 2 years of verifiable skilled work experience (Canadian or Foreign). In addition to all that, being younger certainly doesn't hurt because you pay taxes for longer than someone who is already 50.

We may rant and rave and disagree with the CRS system but we ranted, raved and disagreed with the previous system's faulty FIFO processing as well. No matter how Canada designs their systems, some immigrants will always feel left out. Because they don't fit the bill of what Canada requires now. But that's the only thing that matters - what Canada requires, Canada does.

Absolutely right.

The forum was getting dull because of no activity due to holidays..so I thought of making it live...