IS CIC SERIOUS ABOUT MEETING IMMIGRATION TARGETS FOR 2015???!!!...

[ASky89]

I had a little bit of time to consider what you said, and why it annoyed me so.

Immigration is not luck. It's skills. The points system is geared towards certain attributes, so if you want the benefits, you need to pay the costs. Not the "hard work" cost, but what is actually asked.

I have an LMIA. I don't need one. My spouse got an ITA on March 27, and our application was out May 1st. We expect to have P/R in a couple months. I'm on summer break, so I could have worked full-time until then.

I have 11 different potential paths to P/R. I set out a goal, and I will do what it takes to succeed. Whether it's NAFTA, a Master's degree, or a LMIA, I'm willing to work as hard as is needed to meet my goals.

Luck had nothing to do with it - the only reason I worked at this employer was because they needed me. I wouldn't have taken a job from a Canadian. I was willing to relocate anywhere in Canada, and learn whatever skills were necessary in order to find a job where I wouldn't be stealing a job from a Canadian.

I have spent hundreds of hours reading through immigration caselaw, operational manuals and bulletins, ministerial instructions. I went to college to improve my score because while my work experience was good, my academic credentials were not good enough. There's a reason that many new P/Rs can't find a job, or end up taking survival jobs, but I found one in very short order. When I went looking for a job, I started with employers who had already been advertising for a long time. These were desperate employers, ones willing to do LMIAs if they can.

I'm aware my case isn't generalizable - if it were, immigration wouldn't bother me so much. Too many people think only of themselves, and not of the country they are moving to.

Luck is for people who don't plan far enough ahead.

You are indeed a person of extremes: I said maybe there is a Canadian with the same skill set who for whatever reason did not apply. You took it personally and let your emotions ignore the key word. I understand and do not under-estimate the value of your work put into the immigration process and it's admiriable. However, I find you are applying theoretical absolutes to the real-life where there are no absolutes.

The pompous words about how people are thinking only about themselves are even beyond any comment, I do not impose any value judgments beyond the scope of the argument.

Indeed, PGWP holders are not demanding to be granted a PR status, they are asking for Canadian Education to be recognized on the Express Entry system-level as they are more likely to intergrate into society better, have better adaptability skills and higher potential to improve their skill set. Equivocation of Canadian Education to Foreign education is the flaw in the system currently has.

 

[ASky89]

This isn't your game and until the time comes that you have the right to vote in Canada, you don't get a say in who they decide they want. This is harsh I know but the sooner you accept that EE is here to stay the better.

It doesn't mean they system does not have flaws and those flaws do not have to be addressed.
I personally think the equivocation of Canadian to Foreign education is eliminating the need of Canadian education at all. I could've gone to a cheaper XYZ country University get the same x years of experience and apply for PR having all that money invested in Canadian property. That would definately not feed Canadian students or subsidize their OSAP, but would be a better outcome for me by all the means. You don't see a potential long-term problem here?

 

[kateg]

I personally think the equivocation of Canadian to Foreign education is eliminating the need of Canadian education at all. I could've gone to a cheaper XYZ country University get the same x years of experience and apply for PR having all that money invested in Canadian property. That would definately not feed Canadian students or subsidize their OSAP, but would be a better outcome for me by all the means. You don't see a potential long-term problem here?

No, I don't see a problem there. Why should it matter - you have the skills, or you don't.

If you can get a cheaper, better education elsewhere, that's good for Canada, too. Like you said, you'd have more money and still have the skills. Why not free up the education slot for someone who can't get as good an education locally?

 

[nuksyed]

No, I don't see a problem there. Why should it matter - you have the skills, or you don't.

If you can get a cheaper, better education elsewhere, that's good for Canada, too. Like you said, you'd have more money and still have the skills. Why not free up the education slot for someone who can't get as good an education locally?

You know what, in a way I see your point. Having someone do a job that no other canadian is willing or available to do is better for the country.

 

[ASky89]

No, I don't see a problem there. Why should it matter - you have the skills, or you don't.

If you can get a cheaper, better education elsewhere, that's good for Canada, too. Like you said, you'd have more money and still have the skills. Why not free up the education slot for someone who can't get as good an education locally?

Yes, one could have skills, but they might not be transferable, Canadian education is boosting up the skill transferability and it should be recognized by the system.

You are shifting the meaning, the outcome might be that less people would want to get education in Canada and plenty of slots would become available causing economic damage. Didn't you just talk about thinking of the overall good of the country?

 

[kateg]

You are shifting the meaning, the outcome might be that less people would want to get education in Canada and plenty of slots would become available causing economic damage. Didn't you just talk about thinking of the overall good of the country?

I'm not shifting anything. Separate points.

Canada is looking to double the number of students:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/canada-wants-to-double-its-international-student-body-1.2497819

They do so because the number of people who want to be students exceeds the number who will be students. This is also why giving all those students P/R is a bad idea.

What I'm saying is that if you have the ability to get a better education at a cheaper price, then you should do so. There are plenty of people from areas with schools that are not as good, and it makes sense for them to come to Canada. They can get their education, make the schools money, then leave. The most qualified people from around the world get P/R.

This leaves Canada with the maximum economic benefit - more students, and only the highest skilled people get P/R. The students pay for an education that's better than what they get at home, and they get the education they pay for.

 

[ASky89]

I'm not shifting anything. Separate points.

Canada is looking to double the number of students:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/canada-wants-to-double-its-international-student-body-1.2497819

They do so because the number of people who want to be students exceeds the number who will be students. This is also why giving all those students P/R is a bad idea.

And where in the article did you find that info? It's the conclusion you drew based on your assumptions, it might have nothing to to with the real intention. And does it really matter what is the reason behind? Canada wants to double, it means it has to advertise and it obviously will not be the educational cost reduction.

I just found the confirmation the International Students indeed should be given some PR-related benefits due to their status in Canada:

B.C. hosted almost 26 per cent of Canada's 265,377 international students in 2012. In addition to recruiting more, the government wants to prevent "brain drain" by making it easier for international students to obtain permanent residency after graduation.

 

[purplesnow]

It doesn't mean they system does not have flaws and those flaws do not have to be addressed.
I personally think the equivocation of Canadian to Foreign education is eliminating the need of Canadian education at all. I could've gone to a cheaper XYZ country University get the same x years of experience and apply for PR having all that money invested in Canadian property. That would definately not feed Canadian students or subsidize their OSAP, but would be a better outcome for me by all the means. You don't see a potential long-term problem here?

not really. all a degree shows is that you can stick with something for a few years, doesn't matter where you do it. Experience matters and if i remember rightly, canadian experience does get you more points than foreign experience.

 

[ASky89]

not really. all a degree shows is that you can stick with something for a few years, doesn't matter where you do it. Experience matters and if i remember rightly, canadian experience does get you more points than foreign experience.

Yes from common-sense perspective, no from a legal perspective. The problem is that canadian government made a distinguisment between foreign and international students previously by indtroducing CEC program and claiming "international students would integrate into society better" quoting the cic website (sorry, can't find the original link now). Moreover, it plans to increase the number of international students and, as quoted previously, wants to prevent "brain drain" futher recognizing rather special status of international students in Canadian economy.
We cannot claim what is the "brain drain" definition for CIC and how would they spot potential talent... We are getting back to LMIA again. Ok. So what if it's the bio-chem research? Theoretically you can find a Canadian for that position and train him/her, realistically it doesn't guarantee the outcome of the research will be successful, as it is the matter of candidate's soft skills/potential, not only "the space has to be filled by someone" requirement.

Also, canadian experience goes under human capital section
international experience goes as an additional "skills transferablity" section. Those, who lived in Canada since 18 obviously are in a loss to more experienced . It seems the new system undermines the value of Canadian experience/ Canadian education. If even CIC does not recognize it, why bother for potential international students?

 

[kateg]

Canadian experience goes under human capital section
international experience goes as an additional "skills transferablity" section. Those, who lived in Canada since 18 obviously are in a loss to more experienced . It seems the new system undermines the value of Canadian experience/ Canadian education.

No, they aren't obviously more experienced. I've met plenty of people who have been here a while, and still can't speak English particularly well, nor are they particularly skilled. A degree means little if you can't get a job to back it up.

If even CIC does not recognize it, why bother for potential international students?

Why would someone pay to go to a good school? To get a good education. You seem to forget that part. If you pay for the chance to earn a degree, and you get a degree, you've gotten what you paid for.

In the US, you can get a degree, and get some training. When you are done, you go home. You can try to find a sponsor while you're there. If you have "extraordinary ability", you get priority for employment-based immigration.

Otherwise, you go home. Just like you agree to. My study permit and my work permit both state that I "must leave Canada by [day]". Everyone's does. It's the price we agree to pay when we come here.

The permit doesn't say "entitled to receive permanent residency after [date]". It never did, and anyone who promised you that was lying.

 

[purplesnow]

Yes from common-sense perspective, no from a legal perspective. The problem is that canadian government made a distinguisment between foreign and international students previously by indtroducing CEC program and claiming "international students would integrate into society better" quoting the cic website (sorry, can't find the original link now). Moreover, it plans to increase the number of international students and, as quoted previously, wants to prevent "brain drain" futher recognizing rather special status of international students in Canadian economy.
We cannot claim what is the "brain drain" definition for CIC and how would they spot potential talent... We are getting back to LMIA again. Ok. So what if it's the bio-chem research? Theoretically you can find a Canadian for that position and train him/her, realistically it doesn't guarantee the outcome of the research will be successful, as it is the matter of candidate's soft skills/potential, not only "the space has to be filled by someone" requirement.

Also, canadian experience goes under human capital section
international experience goes as an additional "skills transferablity" section. Those, who lived in Canada since 18 obviously are in a loss to more experienced . It seems the new system undermines the value of Canadian experience/ Canadian education. If even CIC does not recognize it, why bother for potential international students?

CEC wasn't introduced specifically for students though. it was meant as a way to help keep all the people who came on open work permits and were doing skilled jobs. students benefited too but it wasn't meant just for them. and the people who came & have been working ever since are more valuable to the economy than people who came to study and do some part time work on the side. I'm not saying your fees didn't contribute to the economy too, but most of that goes to the university, not taxes and in return for your money they gave you an education. that transaction is complete.