Is Canada Worth It?

[Kanamen]

I have put some other immigrations resources online:

I created an immigration pattern map for Canada. It shows that immigration trends are changing in Canada, with more immigrants first locating in Western Canada. However, the majority of immigrants still settle in Ontario. Here is the link to the map; you are free to share or embed the map.

Canadian Immigration Patterns Map Link:
http://www.tvo.org/cfmx/tvoorg/theagenda/index.cfm?page_id=3&action=blog&subaction=viewPost&post_id=14155&blog_id=323

This map is a little more controversial. It is a video map that I created by visiting 5 cities in Ontario and asking people on the street "how immigration is affecting the country". THE MAP IS NOT SCIENTIFIC. I just thought, with all we hear about immigration backlash in the West, it would be interesting to find out what people on the street have to say. If people in this forum have a chance to look at it, I would love to know if you think if people were more positive or more negative. Also, It would a be a great help to me to know if forum users think this type of map is a valuable resource.

Video Map Link
http://www.tvo.org/cfmx/tvoorg/theagenda/index.cfm?page_id=3&action=blog&subaction=viewPost&post_id=14222&blog_id=323

And here is an in depth debate on Immigration that we held at the Munk School for Global Affairs. The topic was: Immigration Nation - Is Canada still a welcoming nation? Is the mosaic working?

Debate Link:
http://www.tvo.org/TVO/WebObjects/TVO.woa?videoid?767977553001

And finally, I am hoping to expand on my Voices of New Canadian Series with a look at immigration and sponsorship.


All posted links represent content produced by TVOntario, Ontario's publicly funded educational broadcaster. All content is commercial free, and produced as a public service. You are free to share or embed the content.

David Erwin, The Agenda with Steve Paikin

Voices of New Canadians Web Series:
http://www.tvo.org/cfmx/tvoorg/theagenda/index.cfm?page_id=3&action=blog&subaction=viewPost&post_id=14228&blog_id=323

Thank You David, great post

 

[POSITIVE]

THANKS..very good eye opener...

 

[Mezo2009]

Great post David. And nice info. Thanks so much.

 

[anthello]

Can I ask, how many of these questions have been directed at the government, specifically the immigration minister? Did you get any meaningful answers?
You obviously have a feeling of what immigrants have to deal with, sadly the personal experience of many immigrants is worse than many Canadians realize.

As an applicant in the family class, one of the big issues for me is not just that immigration marriage fraud still persists. It troubles me that it is nearly impossible to deport those who commit immigration fraud, therefore there is very little consequence to the fraudulent activity. This directly impacts those who apply in the spousal/common law streams.

It is my experience, after many years of visiting Canada for personal and business purposes, that many Canadians seem to be getting tired of welcoming new immigrants.
In general, cradle Canadians are not aware of the immigration process, as an example:
At present I am in Canada with my Canadian wife, many acquaintances have expressed amazement that I am not allowed to work. This amazement soon turns to an ill formed opinion that I am a freeloader being "kept" by my wife. My wife and I have given up trying to explain the situation to anyone, except for other immigrants. It is far easier to tell people that I am a technical consultant (Which is my role when I am outside of Canada).

Is it either feasible or sensible to have an totally open door policy on Canadian immigration policy? Most people would doubt that, and that doubt seems to mandate that the system has to practice age and or other types of profiling.

Canada does need skilled and productive immigrants, however there appears to be a disconnect between the NOC list and what Canadian companies really want. In many ways nepotism is the order of the day in Canada. Who can really justify the "no Canadian experience" excuse, in many cases the immigrant is far more suited to the role because of the wide range of experience gathered outside of Canada.

I hear that it is safer to have a heart attack in a Toronto cab than at home, because there is a high probability that your cab driver is a skilled medical professional. ** If the cab driver/ medical practitioner was helping save your life would you care if he had Canadian experience?

The really bad thing about immigration in Canada is the huge waste of skills, time and money. The cynical amongst us will venture the thought that the money that immigrants spend helps the Government. The problem comes when those immigrants either fail to gain employment and or leave the country - word goes out and Canada will eventually suffer. There have been plenty of posts on this forum comparing Canada with Australia, new Zealand and other countries. When Canada is eventually desperate for immigrants, the country will have a hard time attracting them.



Are full length programs of The Agenda available online?
When will there be another open discussion program? Please get the immigration minister and other interested parties together with immigrants.
Maybe TVO should run a roadshow to canvass immigrant opinion.

** urban myth.

Well said. I have studied while my wife worked in Canada for close to 2 years and everything you have said I have experienced and witnessed it from the very beginnings of our PR application to actually seeing the attitudes on the other side with regard to employment.

I had no difficulties securing 2 positions at universities to study (since I believe I had a masters), but the problem came with employment. Although I found that the process to get temporary statuses were quick but when we got there finding a job for my wife was very tedious. She eventually landed one in what we would call the outback of Canada, far east in Labrador.

But I can attest that there are lots of things the Immigration officials fail to mention on their website, email correspondence, automated voice recordings and even in telephone conversations that when you get there it is just a pure and complete shock.

One may ask why I am continue with a FSW application? Well as I eluded to in another of my posts, this event is one that is commercial and it costs me money to apply, so I am just making sure we get our money's worth.

 

[cliffy]

I would agree with a lot of the sentiments expressed on this subject. My application has been in since Nov 2007, London VO. To date no reply.In the interim period my wife and i have made substantial investment into Canada. To date we have property and land worth $1000000 CA and pay non resident taxes. This investment was initiated with the belief that we would be living in the country within 3yrs of applying. I have undertaken extra qualifications at my own expense - having had my existing ones quantified by WES and found to be "lacking" for Canadian comparison! Despite this i have worked in my regulated field as a professional for over 25yrs but find that should i wish to work in this field in Canada that i will have to undertake Red Seal exams before working! If i wait for 3yrs + in the immigration queue having my qualifications, work experience,health, security,references etc checked and rechecked then why should this all be undervalued through "lack of Canadian experience"??? We have been travelling back and forth to our property in Canada for over 7yrs now, we have a mortgage, a SIN number, a car, an accountant to do our taxes, family in Canada, many friends, we spend $$ whilst on our trips contrubuting to the local economy - does this not not count as "Canadian experience"?? (APPARENTLY NOT)
Our destination of choice is W Canada, BC.
We have spoken to many local Canadians who are in total bewilderment at their own goverment policies when we tell them of our experience so far. Canada still has an open door policy to refugees, evidenced by the Tamils last summer in Vancouver bay - but at what expense to the country?? How many C$ will be spent on lawyers, immigration experts, translators, social workers to establish right of entry and residency? What genuine hope do these people have of contributing to the $worth of Canada through employment etc when the majority are destitute, devoid of means of support and cannot even speak the language!!???
We must meet all of this criteria through the current immigration process but it seems we are not on a level playing field!!

 

[David_TVO]

I would agree with a lot of the sentiments expressed on this subject. My application has been in since Nov 2007, London VO. To date no reply.In the interim period my wife and i have made substantial investment into Canada. To date we have property and land worth $1000000 CA and pay non resident taxes. This investment was initiated with the belief that we would be living in the country within 3yrs of applying. I have undertaken extra qualifications at my own expense - having had my existing ones quantified by WES and found to be "lacking" for Canadian comparison! Despite this i have worked in my regulated field as a professional for over 25yrs but find that should i wish to work in this field in Canada that i will have to undertake Red Seal exams before working! If i wait for 3yrs + in the immigration queue having my qualifications, work experience,health, security,references etc checked and rechecked then why should this all be undervalued through "lack of Canadian experience"??? We have been travelling back and forth to our property in Canada for over 7yrs now, we have a mortgage, a SIN number, a car, an accountant to do our taxes, family in Canada, many friends, we spend $$ whilst on our trips contrubuting to the local economy - does this not not count as "Canadian experience"?? (APPARENTLY NOT)

Thanks for contribution to this thread. Would you give me permission to post a portion of your comments to this Immigration Blog:

http://www.tvo.org/cfmx/tvoorg/theagenda/index.cfm?page_id=3&action=blog&subaction=viewpost&blog_id=323&post_id=14228

Sincerely,

David Erwin, The Agenda with Steve Paikin

All content represented by the posted link is produced by TVOntairo, Ontario's publicly funded educational broadcaster. All material is commercial free and produced as a public service. You are permitted to share or embed our content.

 

[cliffy]

YES SURE

 

[Mezo2009]

Dear Baloo and Cliffy,

You need to share your experiences thru TVO as well others. Your experiences must be heard. I know there are lots of depressing stories, however it might be due to the lack of communicating and raising these voices, very few is being surfaced.

The disconnect of NOC with companies need is a serious issue which Baloo highlights. I'm not sure how true this is, but if it's, this will only increase unemployment and frustrations among immigrants. I hope the minsiter, parliament and government will take actions to resolve these issues.

Cheers

 

[Baloo]

Dear Baloo and Cliffy,

You need to share your experiences thru TVO as well others. Your experiences must be heard. I know there are lots of depressing stories, however it might be due to the lack of communicating and raising these voices, very few is being surfaced.

The disconnect of NOC with companies need is a serious issue which Baloo highlights. I'm not sure how true this is, but if it's, this will only increase unemployment and frustrations among immigrants. I hope the minsiter, parliament and government will take actions to resolve these issues.

Cheers

I agree that voices need to be heard, I have posted at TVO and I have submitted information via another route.

 

[Mezo2009]

I agree that voices need to be heard, I have posted at TVO and I have submitted information via another route.

Great. Hope we all participate in building a more civilized community. Thanks Baloo.

 

[David_TVO]

Hello Cliffy,

Your comments have been added to our blog post. Thanks for your contribution to this conversation.

Blog Post: Immigration and its Discontents: The Reaction
http://www.tvo.org/cfmx/tvoorg/theagenda/index.cfm?page_id=3&action=blog&subaction=viewPost&post_id=14228&blog_id=323


David
Voices of New Canadian Web Series
http://www.tvo.org/cfmx/tvoorg/theagenda/index.cfm?page_id=3&action=blog&subaction=viewPost&post_id=14228&blog_id=323

All posted links represent content produced by TVOntario, Ontario's publicly funded educational broadcaster. All material is produced as a public service and is commercial free. You are free to share, or embed the content.

 

[schwarzeradler]

I would agree with a lot of the sentiments expressed on this subject. My application has been in since Nov 2007, London VO. To date no reply.In the interim period my wife and i have made substantial investment into Canada. To date we have property and land worth $1000000 CA and pay non resident taxes. This investment was initiated with the belief that we would be living in the country within 3yrs of applying. I have undertaken extra qualifications at my own expense - having had my existing ones quantified by WES and found to be "lacking" for Canadian comparison! Despite this i have worked in my regulated field as a professional for over 25yrs but find that should i wish to work in this field in Canada that i will have to undertake Red Seal exams before working! If i wait for 3yrs + in the immigration queue having my qualifications, work experience,health, security,references etc checked and rechecked then why should this all be undervalued through "lack of Canadian experience"??? We have been travelling back and forth to our property in Canada for over 7yrs now, we have a mortgage, a SIN number, a car, an accountant to do our taxes, family in Canada, many friends, we spend $$ whilst on our trips contrubuting to the local economy - does this not not count as "Canadian experience"?? (APPARENTLY NOT)
Our destination of choice is W Canada, BC.
We have spoken to many local Canadians who are in total bewilderment at their own goverment policies when we tell them of our experience so far. Canada still has an open door policy to refugees, evidenced by the Tamils last summer in Vancouver bay - but at what expense to the country?? How many C$ will be spent on lawyers, immigration experts, translators, social workers to establish right of entry and residency? What genuine hope do these people have of contributing to the $worth of Canada through employment etc when the majority are destitute, devoid of means of support and cannot even speak the language!!???
We must meet all of this criteria through the current immigration process but it seems we are not on a level playing field!!

Unfortunately, you have applied to a Visa Office that "doesn't give a hoot" about all this. I am also a Nov2007 candidate from the UK and fulfill almost all of the conditions you have stated above, but again, I have also applied to the same office. I don't think they actually take a look at your application and your profile after they have sent you an AOR.
To be honest, I am very disappointed and gutted in the Canadian Immigration process as a whole.

 

[slavasz]

Is Canada Worth It? Isn’t it a rhetorical question? Is the number of applications not evidence?

In my humble opinion:
Global move of masses of people from places with fewer opportunities to places with more opportunities is inevitable and unavoidable.
Therefore, a smart government would let in more sought-after candidates first.
However, the barrier should be realistic. Obviously there are trade-offs.
If it is set too high (sure, Nobel laureates are preferred ), next thing you see all kind of people literally climbing over the fence. I mean literally, like from Mexico to the States. It is actually ridiculous to have more chance to win green-card with DV lottery than to get it being on H1-B already in the country.

It is very promising to see that the recent suggestions show opening of the immigration authorities' eyes .
No matter what education and experience you have the very first skills you need for Canada (or any other country for that matter) is LANGUAGE.
All those medical specialists driving taxis in Toronto could not (or would not, or did not want to) pass exam, first of all, because of inadequate level of language.
This is the biggest mistake you can make thinking "oh, it's OK, with experience and education when that person in Canada, he/she will improve his/her English/French here".
I would go so far to suggest making it mandatory:
Language (let's say English) – having less than 7 is not enough, so IELTS 7+ (for each part L-R-W-S), higher point for 8.5+, REGARDLESS of Academic or General Training. Canada will get people who speak very good English (or French).
And:
Education - high-school is not enough, at least Technical School or Bachelor, much higher point for PhD. Canada will get smarter people.
Experience - currently, at least one year and maximum for 4+, is adequate.

Further:
Age - minimum age 20, maximum points before 35, no points after 40. Canada will get people with enough years to earn pension.
Adaptability - for spouse the same minimum for language, education, experience and age, plus extra points for affidavit of support from at least 3 (maybe even 5, the more the better) people, anybody, not only relative. Canada will get people with spouses who will not be a drag to the main applicant. And will indirectly make sure the person will get well in Canada and not regret the move since those people know that person better than any immigration officer.

And:
Current list 29 without IT specialists is just nonsense. Let me repeat in other words- IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE.
Make it, maybe even 290 by including IT, all kind of hi-tech technicians, engineers and designers. Canada will get larger pull of specialists making even bigger advantage for manufacturing goods with higher added value. Otherwise sit and wait for India and China to do those products for you. Like those high-speed trains, for example.

Funds: the currents table is very realistic.

Another important detail: make decision making period of from one to two years. Not less than one year, to prevent people from making hasty decision. But not more than two, be humane. Let people plan their lives.

In conclusion - let my people go! (or actually come, to Canada )

 

[qorax]

Is Canada Worth It? Isn't it a rhetorical question? Is the number of applications not evidence?

In my humble opinion:
Global move of masses of people from places with fewer opportunities to places with more opportunities is inevitable and unavoidable.
Therefore, a smart government would let in more sought-after candidates first.
However, the barrier should be realistic. Obviously there are trade-offs.
If it is set too high (sure, Nobel laureates are preferred ), next thing you see all kind of people literally climbing over the fence. I mean literally, like from Mexico to the States. It is actually ridiculous to have more chance to win green-card with DV lottery than to get it being on H1-B already in the country.

It is very promising to see that the recent suggestions show opening of the immigration authorities' eyes .
No matter what education and experience you have the very first skills you need for Canada (or any other country for that matter) is LANGUAGE.
All those medical specialists driving taxis in Toronto could not (or would not, or did not want to) pass exam, first of all, because of inadequate level of language.
This is the biggest mistake you can make thinking "oh, it's OK, with experience and education when that person in Canada, he/she will improve his/her English/French here".
I would go so far to suggest making it mandatory:
Language (let's say English) – having less than 7 is not enough, so IELTS 7+ (for each part L-R-W-S), higher point for 8.5+, REGARDLESS of Academic or General Training. Canada will get people who speak very good English (or French).
And:
Education - high-school is not enough, at least Technical School or Bachelor, much higher point for PhD. Canada will get smarter people.
Experience - currently, at least one year and maximum for 4+, is adequate.

Further:
Age - minimum age 20, maximum points before 35, no points after 40. Canada will get people with enough years to earn pension.
Adaptability - for spouse the same minimum for language, education, experience and age, plus extra points for affidavit of support from at least 3 (maybe even 5, the more the better) people, anybody, not only relative. Canada will get people with spouses who will not be a drag to the main applicant. And will indirectly make sure the person will get well in Canada and not regret the move since those people know that person better than any immigration officer.

And:
Current list 29 without IT specialists is just nonsense. Let me repeat in other words- IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE.
Make it, maybe even 290 by including IT, all kind of hi-tech technicians, engineers and designers. Canada will get larger pull of specialists making even bigger advantage for manufacturing goods with higher added value. Otherwise sit and wait for India and China to do those products for you. Like those high-speed trains, for example.

Funds: the currents table is very realistic.

Another important detail: make decision making period of from one to two years. Not less than one year, to prevent people from making hasty decision. But not more than two, be humane. Let people plan their lives.

In conclusion - let my people go! (or actually come, to Canada )

U said it all Bro -- Good Job !
Qorax

 

[weddingtonite]

canada well worth it i suppose.